MovieChat Forums > The Lottery (2010) Discussion > Not what I expected, but good [moderate ...

Not what I expected, but good [moderate spoilers]


I read a little bit about this movie in Greenwich magazine. There was an article in that magazine, since the director is from Greenwich.

For whatever reason, I was expecting a portrayal that would be biased with a liberal slant, at least a little one. I was totally wrong on that guess.

The movie starts by introducing you to the four prospective students, and their parents' dream of a quality, elementary education as the passport for their childrens' future. As a viewer, you really empathize with their predicament, and your disgust for the failed system, known as the NY public school system, builds.

Then you're introduced to ACORN, the hired guns. The mercenaries of rabel rousing and protests. They have no skin in this game, but are paid to make noise. They are good at their chosen profession. They even use children as props, as you will see.

Then you get to see the public teacher's union. They are nothing more than a job's program that operates on the broken window theory.

Then you see the greatest tools of the union - the elected officials in NY. Hats off to Mr. Fidler and Ms. Arroyo. If they intended to provide provactive discussion about their ignorant and offensive manners, they were successful. I can't stop talking about those two. What a hoot!

Along the way we see the community meetings about "disrespecting me" as certain locals want to preserve the institution that has failed them for decades. That one was an eye opener. I couldn't believe that was happening 20 miles down the road from me. Wow.

Anyway, a well made documentary. It helped me understand the concept of a charter school, and why there is a demand for such an institution when the union-based ones have failed. It showed me how deeply the politicians are in the pocket of the public unions (the same unions that they are supposed to protect the taxpayer from). I finally understand what ACORN is all about, and how the "community organizers" fit into this sad picture.

The whole time this theater is playing you are continually reminded of the children and their parents, the real stakeholders, and none of the aforementioned groups even pretends to care about them.

Well worth the view; I highly recommend it.

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For whatever reason, I was expecting a portrayal that would be biased with a liberal slant, at least a little one. I was totally wrong on that guess.

We must have seen different copies because this was a liberals wet dream. Every other word was "obama".

IMBD Fail #1: "You're just jealous"

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I agree the agenda was right there it was nonsense.
And I would say I'm somewhat liberal on many issues too but not at the expense of facts.

My interest with this film was pretty simple, both my parents are career educators. I grew up watching my father grade papers and watching my mom complete her college coursework to become a teacher. They love what they do and work hard.

This film is so flawed it's crazy.

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In what ways?

The criticism was of teachers who are not dedicated professionals. I would guess that people who love what they do and work hard would not be the kind of teachers that give the teachers' unions a bad name.

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No, I disagree. This film was an attack on the UFT and the teachers that comprise it. I don't remember there being a component in this documentary that
distinguished the dedicated UFT educators from their less dedicated counterparts. Essentially, this film amounted to: charter school teachers = dedicated/good and public school teachers = incompetent/entitled/bad.

As an educator in the private sector of NYC, I find a documentary like this totally insulting. Unfortunately, I make about 1/2 the salary of a NYC public school teacher with the same credentials, and my job is not unionized. Due to the lack of a union, we are taken advantage of in countless ways, and it's become apparent to me that the folks who are attempting to bust the UFT are hellbent on making a school teacher's job even more thankless than it currently is. Teachers are not even close to being adequately compensated for the amount of work that the job requires. Removing a union from the equation will essentially result in the modern-day slave-driving of teachers who are already burnt out and overburdened.

There are no easy solutions for bridging the achievement gap, and I'm damn sure that the dissolution of the UFT and the advent of the Charter School do not eqaute to a panacea for this ailing system. It'll be about as successful as sealing a hole in a dam with a glob of bubblegum.


He's taking the knife out of the cheese!
Do you think he wants some cheese?

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Respectfully, satrunchick, you are in good company. I hear people from every career field complain that they are under-compensated. The truth of the matter is that they are either adequately compensated, or that they lack the drive to vote with their feet. The only thing that would distort the market is some sort of monopoly. A monopoly of labor perhaps, e.g. a teacher's union.

I can appreciate that you find the documentary insulting, but understand that this is focused on a the failings of a very specific school district, and a specific, successful alternative. It also clearly shows the UFT opposing the alternative being chosen by parents. The UFT has a compromised interest.

As for the "achievement gap," that is another topic. A controversial term that many believe was created as a gambit to secure funding.

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Certainly, you're entitled to your opinion, usa, and you bring up a couple of interesting points. Firstly, yes, you will hear people from all walks of life complain about an inadequate salary. However, let's not group civil service workers like policemen and firefighters in with disenchanted advertisement executives, actuaries, or grocery store clerks. Although everyone has the right to feel underappreciated, there are those who FEEL undervalued and those that actually ARE.

Since this topic is about teachers, let me focus on that particular career field. For illustration: I'm about to begin my 10th year of teaching, and I've been at the same private school the entire length of my career. I have a Master's Degree and I am fully certified. My currently salary is less than $37,000 a year (or about $710 a week before taxes); like many salaried employees, I am not entitled to overtime when I'm required to be at work on weekends or after hours. That said, the latter point is not really a complaint, as I feel that the amount of hours spent on weekends and after work grading tests, updating my school website, communicating with parents, creating lesson plans, and reading reports is returned to me during summer vacation. I'm entitled to only three 40 minute prep periods a week, and that's if I don't have to substitute for another absent teacher. I also have lunch duty 3-4 times a week. Sadly, I earned more money each week when I was a 19 year old college student working in a hospital cafeteria.

Now, I'm not trying to bemoan my own situation - I do love to teach - but I'm simply trying to juxtapose the salary of a teacher with the responsibilities of a teacher. How many careers that require a Master's Degree compensate an employee of 10 years (and in many instances, hundreds of hours of ongoing training) with a salary of less than $40,000 annually? In NYC, this is barely enough to live on! I'm pretty sure that you'll agree that this is NOT adequate compensation, and I assure you it has nothing to do with my colleagues and I "lacking drive" in any of the possible ways that one can lack drive.

As I've stated previously, my job is not unionized (my previous job at the hospital cafeteria was, though). This accounts for the fact that a public school employee with job experience and education level equivalent to mine makes somewhere between $15,000 - $17,000 more, annually. My point is that, without a teacher's union to protect employees and to ensure semi-adequate compensation and proper prep time, educators will eventually find themselves in a situation similar to my own. This is especially true in a large city like New York, with all the political wheelings and dealings that take place. It's absolutely deplorable that teachers put in incredibly long hours, deal with class sizes upwards of 40 students (many of whom are emotionally disturbed and/or learning disabled), endure verbal abuse from students/parents and constant criticism from the public, and earn barely enough to pay rent, keep the fridge stocked, and own a car!

Make no mistake about it, the push to dissolve and discredit a teacher's union is simply an attempt to create a work culture where inexperienced teachers who earn bottom salary drive out those who earn salaries at the top of the pay scale. The easiest way to sway public support towards the dissolution of the union is to portray teachers as lazy, underperforming, entitled, and incompetent. Offering alternatives like charter schools is the very first wave of the process. I don't blame parents for wanting to send their children to schools where they have a better chance of success, but it's nothing more than a diversionary tactic. I applaud these charter school teachers for their dedication and their ability to help students meet standards, but the real question is, why can't traditional public school teachers do the same thing? Real answers to this question are not provided, and rarely are they sought out. Instead, the charter school movement is being employed as a propaganda tool, in which public schools/public school teachers are labeled as "failing". The Lottery chooses, in part, to focus on the anti-UFT sentiment that exists because some sectors are inexplicably correlating poor performance to a teacher's union.

This raises the question as to whether or not the union innately protects bad teachers. The answer is yes, in some cases. No organization is perfect, and it's a shame that these bad teachers are offered asylum because it's an injustice to students as well as all of the good teachers that find themselves fighting a losing battle.

Naturally, I can understand the union's reasons for being opposed to parents choosing charter schools. There seems to be a similar sentiment pervading my school as well, although we are able to produce competitive statistics, and don't necessarily feel threatened by these new age educational institutions. The fact is that Harlem Success Academy is an exception to a rule. Statistics have shown that many (about 70%) of NYC charters have either a) comparable success to their traditional counterparts or b) performed even more abysmally than conventional public schools. Of course the UFT has a vested interest in opposing an institution that, through smoke and mirrors, has attempted to represent itself as a superior educational alternative; although the documentary focuses on Harlem Success, the opposition within the UFT is not necessary directed at that particular school, no matter how the documentary slants it. Furthermore, there’s no attempt within the documentary to represent traditional public schools as anything other than “failing”. Why no explanation that part of the reason that these schools are failing is because, unlike charters, traditional schools are handcuffed by the Department of Education?

The Lottery does present everything in a biased light, using Harlem Success to portray charters as a cure-all; the innocent victim in a war with the Big Bad UFT. Check out this article that sheds some light on a recent attempt by a charter school to combat the formation of a union:
http://www.uft.org/news/harlem-charter-school-fires-13-union-supporter s
Clearly, this lends some credence to my assertion that a teacher’s union is necessary in order to prevent employers from taking complete advantage of their subordinates. These charter schools have a compromised interest, too, but that is never touched upon in the film.

I don’t mean to suggest that public schools (or the union) should “monopolize” the free education market; but let the fight be fair! Would it be fair for a boxer to step into a ring with one hand tied behind his back and be required to win a boxing match against juiced-up Mike Tyson? And then subject that boxer to ridicule because he was unable to pull off a miracle, partially because he was not given access to the same resources as Tyson?

Regarding my use of the term “achievement gap”, I’ll agree that there are some divisions of the educational world that hesitate to use it for the reasons that you’ve stated, but that is more or less what the entire documentary is attempting to address. Although the terminology is never actually used in the film (from what I remember), I thought it was pretty much insinuated, which is why I used it.


He's taking the knife out of the cheese!
Do you think he wants some cheese?

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People who care enough to want to do away with teachers unions want to do so because they CARE! They care that their children get good teachers and those parents want good teachers to be well compensated to get even more good teachers in the school room. To say that if teachers unions were dissolved that all older teachers would be fired for younger cheaper teachers would be hired is ridiculous! I honestly don't even think that the parents of children trying to get away from bad schools want to do away with teacher's unions. They want to get their children the best education they can.

The state employs these teachers and ALL employers should be able to fire workers who do a substandard job. It shouldn't be a hassle, it shouldn't be a 15 step process. If you do a poor job you should be fired. If you do a good job you should get raised/promoted. Unions should be in place to protect the rights of teachers, yes, but the main focus should be on making sure children get proper education. Should employee's be able to demand they are treated fairly? Yes! But should employers also be able to demand that their employee's are satisfactory workers? Yes!

Charter schools are by no means an answer to the problems in America's education system. The answer is to prune bad teachers, hire new teachers and imo increase pay to get more people interested in the field to keep it competitive.

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The problem, harvey, lies in the definition of "satisfactory". I think that most people who are not in the educational field have little-to-no-idea of what goes on in a classroom every day. I don't say this to be insulting, as I'm certain I would have very little real understanding of what it's like to be, say, a District Attorney.

What would you say makes any person in any field a "satisfactory" employee? To me, some variables that help to determine what "satisfactory" means include: compentency in your field of employment, a clean record of conduct, little/infrequent absenteeism and lateness, and consistent job performance (such as completing assigned tasks in an efficient manner).

Now, why is it that teachers should be deemed "satisfactory" or "unsatisfactory" based on a single variable: how students perform on a standardized test? This is an especially sticky subject for teachers who teach at low-performing schools where students have consistently underperformed on standardized tests. Shouldn't there be some other criteria that are used to determine a teacher's performance in the classroom?

Another personal story: having worked for nearly 10 years in a private school, my pass rate percentage on the 8th grade ELA State test NEVER dipped below 78%. My highest percentage, I believe, was 89%. I have recently begun teaching in the public sector, and I'll consider myself lucky if 40% of my students meet standards. Have I suddenly become an "unsatisfactory" teacher over the course of 2 months? Or is the more likely scenario that I am now faced with the challenge of trying to implement a new curriculum to students who are performing woefully below grade level, unmotivated, and demoralized? It's not the teachers. It's the SYSTEM.

Are you aware that NYC public school teachers are micromanaged to the point where they are practically inhibited from doing any actual teaching? There's no allowances made for teachers to teach using any other style/format/desemination process other than the one mandated by the City. It's practically scripted. Teachers are not allowed to use books - they are "discouraged" in the classroom. Students are required to sit in groups, facing each other, while the teacher robotically dicates the day's lesson according to the strict instructional model adopted by the Department of Education. I'd like to hear your suggestions about how to redirect the focus of thirty low-functiong 14 year-olds who are sitting in groups with classmates while shouting, throwing paper balls, cursing, and eating bacon, egg, and cheese sandwiches. Is this really an environment or a model of instruction that is conducive to learning?

Listen, I do love the kids. They're tough kids from tough neighborhoods, but they can spot a phony from a mile away, and they know I'm not a phony. Nonetheless, they've been reared in a system that has failed them for so long, that they've given up on themselves. The emotional scars and educational neglect are NOT things that can be fixed in a single school year, especially with the ridiculous restrictions and unrealistic expectations being placed on teachers. The system has perpetrated a lie - that teachers are to blame for our students' underperformance, and that charter schools are the answer. It's nothing but propaganda intended to villify the teacher's union, which exists to protect teachers from mistreatment. So, maybe 10% of teachers are genuinely "unsatisfactory". That's a shame, it really is. So the solution is to destroy unionization for the other 90% of the hard-working employess because 10% are bad? That's totally illogical.

Lie still. I've never done this before – and there will
be blood.

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