MovieChat Forums > Collapse (2011) Discussion > Horrible alarmist garbage.

Horrible alarmist garbage.


The reason this is so scary is because the speaker intertwines some truth into his diatribe. He's just a cop with an opinion. End of story.

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agreed.

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Back yourself up with facts, buddy, otherwise go and play with the other trolls.

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Actually he is an _ex-cop_ with an opinion. :P

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^^ I couldn't agree more with this post. It's truly amazing browsing this forum how many people take his every word as fact. We are now half way through 2010 and the global economy didn't collapse as he predicted. We entered a period of recession, some countries recovered faster than others (Canada where I live for example), while other countries like the US took much longer. But every country is either currently in an upward economic trend, or has already recovered.

He did make a couple good points though, peak oil for one. Nobody really knows for sure how much longer oil will last, but it's not a renewable resource. Once we are out, we are out. Many things in the world we rely on come from oil one way or another. Though with all the alternate energy sources currently being created and developed, we will survive the end of oil. The sun for example puts out more energy in a single day than we have used in the entire span of human existence.

Another good point he made was about the money system, and how it is based on infinite growth. This is not a system that can last forever. But I find it incredibly alarmist to believe it's demise will be the end of man kind. We will evolve, adapt, and create newer and better systems that will eventually lead to a system we can sustain indefinitely.

I'm so tired of all these alarmist conspiracy theory documentaries that play on people's naivete. Watching Zeitgeist, Collapse, The Obama Deception, FIAT Empire, and programs like this doesn't make you an informed person. If you really want to understand these concepts with any real depth start buying books on modern economics, politics, attend a post secondary institute and get an education. There is far more depth to these topics then can be covered in a 2 hour documentary. It's not as black and white as these programs make people believe.

I see posters all over this forum accusing people who disagree with Michael Ruppert as being uneducated and buying into the lies government tells. It's hypocritical to say this when you take everything said in a 2 hour documentary as fact but completely disregard a political and economic system that has been centuries in development. No system is perfect though, there is constantly room for improvement. But quit being such soothsaying alarmist sheep. The end of the world is not going to happen in 2012, or 50 years from now, and probably not even 10000 years from now. We are intelligent intuitive evolving mammals and we will continue.

Anyways I'm sure someone will respond by correcting my grammar, or extracting a sentence they disagree with completely ignoring all the other valid points I've made as is customary on the internet. But it's this type of cyclical behavior that stops most people from absorbing anything they read online. Truly a generation that refuses to read, and instead skims their way through.

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[deleted]

Not true. King Hubbert predicted- correctly- that American oil production would peak in the 1970s, which it did. It was never said that GLOBAL oil production would peak at that point.

Also false- we do not have "100 years supply" left. That would be counting every drop, and we're not going to get every last bit of oil (as Ruppert pointed out). If you think you can include the Canadian tar sands in that figure, that's false as well. He was correct in repeating the falsity of how "plentiful" the tar sands are when it takes so much energy and water to get a barrel of oil out of them.

And you're completely wrong on recessions and depressions ending by federal stimulus. Not only is federal stimulus the BEST way to end recessions and depressions, it was PROVEN in the Great Depression. That was Keynesianism at work. The fact that the right has created a cottage industry trying to debunk it shows how desperate they are to fight the actual facts.

Not that I agree with Ruppert on everything....but on those points he was right.

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How many ways are you wrong?

Fracking depends on using a lot of water in areas (the tar sands) where there isn't much, so you have to bring it in. And it pollutes the water tables- and I think you missed the part where we can live without oil but not water. Oh....the energy involved in pulling the oil from the tar sands? It blows apart your forecasts about "available oil."

Those "reserves" off the coast of CA, and in Alaska? Each one is no more than 3 years worth of oil at our current rate of consumption. In other words, they aren't the answer. And methods of extraction haven't advanced to the point where there are giant oil fields with easy access to deliver enough oil on schedule at the price the world functions at.

"As the price of oil goes up".....yeah, Americans were crying when it first hit $5/gallon in 2008. How does $10/gallon sound? Think everyone will be fine with that? Heck, that price makes deepwater oil rigs feasible. I have yet to see if they can produce enough barrels globally, let alone for us. But why let the actual FACTS get in your way?

FDR DID end the Great Depression with Keynesian stimulus.....the facts are inarguable. You're leaning on that field of New Deal deniers that has been financed by right wing cranks for the past 70 years or so. They always get laughed out of the room by people who actually know what they're talking about, so it's always nice to see someone like you fall flat on your face using that junk. Keynesian economics have proven themselves MANY tines: conservative policies like "trickle down" have proven they fail many more times. (Psst- WW2? That's a Keynesian stimulus)

If you're worried about the federal deficit- which has gone DOWN in the last 5 years- then you should want to reduce defense greatly, raise taxes on the rich and corporations, and stop the offshoring of wealth and recapture the part of the tax base that the Top 1% is hiding while enjoying the benefits of living in the US. Of course, from your laughable hatred of Obama, I can see your on the side that complains the most about the deficit but wants to do the very things that make it worse.

Another fact-challenged right winger eats it.

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[deleted]

Your points are mere generalizations and assumptions with no validity to them. Validity is usually based on facts.

Im not going to make a wall of text here on every point you make but will respond to a couple of assumptions you make.

We are now half way through 2010 and the global economy didn't collapse as he predicted. We entered a period of recession, some countries recovered faster than others (Canada where I live for example), while other countries like the US took much longer. But every country is either currently in an upward economic trend, or has already recovered.


The global economy is dieing a death of a thousand cuts.

Just in Europe, Greece, Portugal and Spain have lost their AAA rating, and Britain is scrambling to not be next with massive cuts to public services as our major GDP comes from the financial sector which has only barely propped itself up with the massive bail outs that have rendered us with enormous debt. We lose our AAA rating we are no longer a first world country that's as simple as it goes. We would no longer be in the good books of global finance and trading so basically Britain will be seen as a risk to invest in and its a downward spiral from there.

Any upward trend is going to be quickly negated by the knock on effects by people who have managed to survive the recession by pouring all their money in to keep afloat but wont see returns due to continued caution in spending so are only now starting to fall like flies. I can see it everywhere in the UK with swathes of shops that have closed up well after the apparent all clear. Even though Britain is still using sterling, The Euro is taking a hammering because of the European debt crisis and we are still going to feel it.

I see posters all over this forum accusing people who disagree with Michael Ruppert as being uneducated and buying into the lies government tells. It's hypocritical to say this when you take everything said in a 2 hour documentary as fact but completely disregard a political and economic system that has been centuries in development.


If I'm being a hypocrite agreeing with him then you are the pot calling the kettle black. By insinuating that our modern day political and economic model is based off centuries of development is quite frankly wrong, we are very much living in a market driven political system and that market has only existed for an amount of decades. I think you need to read up on who was Malcom McLean and how he changed the centuries old shipping industry and ultimately the global economy in the 50s and how the tapping of the Middle Eastern oil fields has allowed us to prop that economic model up to this day. So go read a book.




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"Ruppert is personally repulsive, exhibiting a self-satisfied I-told-you-so smugness and sneer. He is a cold, dry man, whose only relationship seems to be with his dog, which didn't seem very interested in him. He is vulgar, emotionally unstable, arrogant, and overly impressed with his every little thought. He is an angry little man. His appeal is narrow, a cult appeal. His authoritarian stance smacks of demagoguery. "

Ok, ok.. I get it what you think about this man.

Now - maybe youll write something about the subject of this movie?

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I'm in favor of sustainable energy sources because it means economic sustainment.

Are you under some illusion that things can continue as they have if we don't change our methods of energy production?

Just as cheap oil fueled this past century's awesome accomplishments, expensive oil will fuel this century's disastorous fall.

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[deleted]

Your solutions are short term at best. You don't seem to grasp the fact that those fuel sources will not last forever and will not be economically feasible forever.

There will come a point when sustainable energy sources will be less expensive than oil.

Would you rather be proactive and ahead of the curve, or would you prefer to react only when our economy enters a permanent recession?

I understand your complaints abot the cost of these sustainable technologies. I don't like it either.

I just look at this as an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. If we wait until the decline starts, we may not be able to dig our way out.

In addition to having cleaner air (I'm sure you wouldn't hate that), we'd no longer have to kiss Saudi ass. We could become independent from those jerkoffs and be ready for the future.

Why wouldn't you want that?

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[deleted]

Let's assume that's true.

Even if there is enough oil for another 100 years, why should we continue to use it as our dominant source of power with no plans to switch?

You accuse GE of being behind alternative energy movements. Who's pushing the oil agenda you're in favor of?

The problem I have with your arguments is that you side with polluting profiteers over those who seek to profit from clean technologies.

It seems your real problem is that you don't want to change the way you live even in the smallest way.

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Understand I'm speaking as someone who drives a 10 year-old Jeep that gets 15 MPG.

With all due respect, you sound like someone raging against a type of admittedly annoying person rather than being realistic about the reality. You sound like someone who gets their news and opinions from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.

My advice to you is to consider the possibility that your beliefs are being exploited by profiteers who seek to pit your "side" against the other. You are seeking out news to confirm your preconveived notions rather than seeking the truth. They've got you seething with contempt for the evil of the Greenies and have successfully convinced you that they're on your side.

They are not. They are your real enemy. They've robbed us blind and yet you cheer them on.

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[deleted]

Bluesdoctor, your original post reveals how much of an idiot you are. Instead of using a thesaurus, how about you investigate and produce some substance into your post.

Just an fyi, Ruppert is very educated man. He graduated from UCLA with honors, and was the top of his class in his police academy. He was promoted to become a narcotics detective. The man is sharp. The reason he was fired was because of his unwillingness to cooperate, and ignore about LAPD/CIA/MAFIA drug smuggling into that area. If you're willing to look into that, there is a video of Ruppert confronting the Director of Central Intelligence in the 90s on youtube. Also, in Gary Webb's investigative masterpiece, Dark Alliance, it intricately details how our federal government was involved in the smuggling of cocaine, which helped fuel the crack-cocaine epidemic. This information is also detailed in his book, Crossing the Rubicon.

Now, this documentary, it was meant to be over dramatic. Infact, imo, it did Ruppert little justice other than generating awareness for his name. If you want real substance into understanding why peak oil is even a possible problem, and how resource control is even evident, read his book. I couldn't stress it enough. Over 1,000 footnotes; it's incredibly investigated. Ruppert correlates 9/11 in regards to the U.S' keen concern with resource control in the middle east. Its far too intricate for me to detail you on, so you need to teach yourself.

As for all trues, actually do research instead of basing your arguments off of your high school science classes and prejudices just because he cried on camera. The guy has been shot at, framed by LAPD/CIA, suffered from alcoholism, heavily monitored, and when he produced his journal series (from the wilderness), all computers involved in the making of FTW were destroyed. I would break down too once in a while.

Again, do research.

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"Ruppert suffers from the intellectual limitations of the self-educated. "

You got rid of the slight amount of credibility you may have had with that sentence.

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you voluntarily drive a jeep that gets 15mpg? you must be rich! even if you are in the US paying virtually *beep* all for your fuel.
i have a sports car that i was horrified to discover got about 13mpg on its last tankful - i thought it did about 22mpg. and even then its a second car my daily car gets near 50mpg.

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Well it's 2012 now dumbass and we're on the brink of war with Iran, the EU is about to collapse, the banks are bigger than ever with more risk, and China is about to face a housing collapse. LOL, have a nice 2012, ya schmuck!

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We're not going to war with Iran. This is the same garbage they pulled when I was on an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf in 2005. It's basically just a huge prick-waiving exercise because Ahmadinejad has an ego problem.

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What people don't seem to want to understand is that our economic system needs permanent growth but this is impossible because we live on a planet with limited resources.

Whether we will run out of oil in 50, 100 or 150 years is not the issue here (although the moment that we will do so is critical), what is the issue is that there will be a point in time when we will run out of oil and we have completely no alternative (yet). If it is the case (we don't know that for sure but it could be) that we already used up half of our natural stock of oil then we will run out very soon.

The fact that oil is LIMITED (not infinite) in the world is something that NO ONE can deny, it is a proven fact and we should look at the implications and develop alternatives before it's too late. What Ruppert is saying is that it is too late already, that's speculation but not impossible.

And it's not just about energy, everything in our house is made of fuel (look at all the plastic), food is transported by cars, planes or trains that depend on oil (in case of cars: even the tyres are pure oil) and the food is often packed in plastic. Machines (cylinders for example) highly depend on oil, etc... Think about the implications if we run out of it or it becomes too expensive because we're running out.

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And now it's 2014 and the world is still here. The EU did not collapse. We are not at war with Iran. The banks are still a problem, but they haven't blown up. Don't know on China and housing, though... I'll have to check that one out.

I disagree with you, but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler.
- Jon Stewart

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This documentary fell apart the 53 minute mark for me. The interviewer asks him about human ingenuity and problem solving, and the response was complete *beep*

First he rambled on about critical thinking, which didn't address the question at all, and then when the interviewer pressed the issue (because his question had not been answered), the response was "no amount of technology or human ingenuity, can possibly overturn the laws of physics". I'm sorry, but that was just weak. It completely sidestepped the question.

After that point, this documentary went downhill fast. Shame really, because it came out the gates fairly strong.

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