MovieChat Forums > Halloween (2018) Discussion > The 1870s called, they want their firear...

The 1870s called, they want their firearms back


So Laurie has been preparing, training for 40 years for the very situation of Michael getting loose. And she's packing revolvers and lever action rifles. WTF? If I was in her shoes, my basement would look like a SEAL armoury (well, as much as the law allows for). AR15s, AKs, 100 rd mags, NODs, stab proof vests. It just seemed very odd. Like they were pushing an anti gun agenda but had to accept guns were part of the character.

I gather JLC is anti gun ' "she wanted her character to only use weapons that are used for “self-defense.”
“I think there were myriad types of firearms that could have been used in the movie,” she said. “I was very clear with the filmmakers that she used the weapons intended for self-defense for her and her family.” '

I don't see how revolvers and lever actions are magically OK to use for self defence and scary black rifles are not. But then again, my brain isn't mush. Perhaps they think wood on guns = OK. I'm pretty sure Colt Peacemakers and Winchester 1873s have been used in countless slaughters and have taken millions of lives since they were first manufactured. But they're OK, as they're for 'self defence'.

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Yep, it's because AR-15s are evil, don't you know. SMDH.

I read the reviews, and was hoping for a really good movie, but I was really underwhelmed upon seeing it. Mostly, my reasons are to do with the movie itself -- it was just entirely too predictable from beginning to end. I also thought they overdid Laurie's paranoia.

But the firearm aspect really did irritate me as well. Think about it: this is a woman so fixated on self-defense that she's willing to ruin two marriages and alienate her own daughter because it's THE number one priority in her life, but she'll bypass what are absolutely, hands down the most effective, most reliable, most thoroughly developed, state of the art firearms a person can obtain for self defense because... reasons.

This is a movie that doesn't believe in its own premise. Absolutely kills suspension of disbelief.

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I hear your point, OP, but I will say this: for home defense in the way she was set up, honestly, shotgun all the way! Biggest bang for your buck on a single shot in close quarters! She wasn't really trying to hit him outside the house, or either sniper rifle or AR would be best, easily, but for her setup and planned indoor fight, shotgun was the best idea. She should have stayed with that instead of firing it once and dropping it for the lever-action. Also, and this is a lot of conjecture, the character could have just been most comfortable / accurate with that lever-action!

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Actually, that's not as clear cut as you make out (leaving aside that during the hunt for Michael through her house, she was using an 1873 Winchester clone). As a home defense gun, the AR15 actually has a lot to recommend it over the shotgun -- and is absolutely better than a pistol-grip only shotgun, such as Laurie had (you can look here for why that is if you've got a few minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYjThckYqBQ).

The shotgun is devastating at close range, but the AR15 actually compares quite favorably with it in that respect, believe it or not. The 5.56mm round dumps about 1000 foot pounds of energy into the target, and depending on the ammo, it may expand, or tumble, or fragment, and this produces devastating wounds. I'm not sure buckshot does all that much more damage. Of course, shotguns can also fire slugs, and they deliver about twice the energy of any 5.56mm load, but... You pay a steep price in increased recoil for that. And even with buckshot, a shotgun will kick substantially harder -- about 8 to 10 times harder -- and your follow up shots will not be as rapid if you miss (and yes, you DO have to aim a shotgun, not just point it, especially at indoor ranges, where the pattern will not spread very much at all).

An AR-15 carbine is much shorter, lighter, and handier, and more maneuverable, and is a MUCH easier weapon to try clearing rooms with, the way we saw Laurie doing with the 1873. Another advantage to the AR is that, with the right ammo selection, you can pick loads that are very effective, but virtually eliminate barrier penetration, making them less likely to go through your walls and into other rooms, or even your neighbor's house, where they may hit innocent people.

But no, it's not just that the character could simply have been more comfortable with a lever gun. An AR-15 is objectively a far better weapon in every single respect. Either you're serious about defense or you're not.

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Fair enough! Great response!

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Either you're serious about defense or you're not.

This, a million times!

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Because she wanted your takeaway to be "Hey, if Michael Myers can be defeated using low-grade standard weapons, then that's good enough for other bad guys"

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The deadliest gun of often the one your most comfortable with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SPl9FvSrck

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I'm sure if Hickok knew he was facing up against Michael, he would pick an assault rifle over a lever action Winchester.

She should have gotten comfortable with an AR. She had enough time.

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“I was very clear with the filmmakers that she used the weapons intended for self-defense for her and her family.”


Typical ignorance-fueled lefty. Winchester had military contracts in mind for the model 1873, and its earliest predecessor, the 1860 lever-action Henry rifle, was highly valued in the American Civil War. Every common action type in existence is or has been used by militaries, including her pump shotgun, double-action revolvers, and bolt-action rifles. It's funny that she was okay with a pump shotgun whereas WWI Germany most certainly wasn't:

"Although the Model 1897 [pump shotgun] was popular with American troops in World War I, the Germans soon began to protest its use in combat. "On 19 September 1918, the German government under Ludendorff issued a diplomatic protest against the American use of shotguns, alleging that the shotgun was prohibited by the law of war." A part of the German protest read that "[i]t is especially forbidden to employ arms, projections, or materials calculated to cause unnecessary suffering" as defined in the 1907 Hague Convention on Land Warfare."

Also, despite what you and the other kids in this thread think, a lever-action rifle is a very formidable firearm. The 1873, chambered for .44-40, has a magazine capacity of 15+1, has about the same power as a 10mm Auto, and this is how rapidly a lever-action can be fired by some people...

https://youtu.be/OuKz8brpH0I

... though firing that rapidly isn't typically useful, regardless of what type of gun you have.

The airheaded politics aside, I liked seeing an interesting / unusual firearm in this movie as opposed to the typical tacticool stuff that you always see these days. Did you complain about the lever-action shotgun in Terminator 2? That was introduced in 1887 and was the most memorable/interesting firearm in that movie. Also, lever-action rifles have been recommended for home defense and police work by people who actually know what they're talking about, for ages. For example:

"If you pay close attention you may be able to detect a rather historic milestone in small arms history. This may be nothing less than the rebirth of the M94 Winchester. In six years this piece will achieve its centennial, and instead of being superseded it looks better all the time. Both Mark Moritz and Greg Morrison are at work on treatments of this weapon, pointing out how far superior the M94 carbine, in caliber .30-30, is to the weapons the world's troops are issued today. The AK47 weighs 10 pounds 4 ounces. The M94 weighs 5 pounds 10 ounces. The 94 is much more compact, decisively more powerful, and far more accurate in the practical sense. This piece, when fitted with a serviceable ghost-ring sight, may just be the ideal police backup weapon - 100 years after its introduction." - Jeff Cooper

On the other hand, it's very unlikely that she would have ended up with a Winchester M1873 or even an Italian clone, since they are specialty items. A Winchester M94 or Marlin M1894 carbine chambered for .357 Magnum would be far more likely if she went to a typical gun shop looking for a lever-action rifle for home defense. As a bonus, the .357 Magnum transforms into an intermediate rifle cartridge in terms of power (comparable to a 7.62 x 39mm) when fired from a 16" or longer barrel, but grants the high magazine capacity of a pistol cartridge.

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Man, you'll go a long way to make a pro assault rifle point, won't you? I admire JLC for resisting the Arnold road and enjoying the opportunity to fire off a bazzilion rounds per minute.

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