Why do Mormons hate gay people
Since the Mormon church excommunicates gay people why is it the Marie Osmond daughter is still a LDS member?? I guess Mormons love money and they don't want to piss off the Osmond s
shareSince the Mormon church excommunicates gay people why is it the Marie Osmond daughter is still a LDS member?? I guess Mormons love money and they don't want to piss off the Osmond s
shareWow, I did not know that Marie Osmond daughter was a lesbian. That is so cool. I love it when righteous religions get thing shoved in their face. Its almost as good as when conservative Republicans get their noses shoved in it (thanks to Mary Cheney and her wife and kids)!@
LOL
"Atheism is a 'Religion' sort of like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby!!!"
The Mormon church does not excommunicate gay people (though they may have in decades past, it has not been church policy to do so for as long as I can remember).
They DO excommunicate gay members who, in their words, are "acting upon their tendencies" and refuse to stop. Please do NOT take this as my approval of their policy - I think it's horrible.
In other words, there are plenty of gay Mormons out there who are active members of the church. Some are even openly gay and continue to be part of their congregations. What they are not permitted to do is to date, kiss, or have any sexual contact.
Also, the church doesn't spend it's time hunting down members who are not active but might be committing offenses worth of excommunication. For example, there was a high school kid in my ward (congregation) who "came out" his junior year. He stopped coming to church. He's now in college and I imagine that he dates guys, probably kisses them (and maybe more), and I'm happy for him and hope that he is happy. But since he isn't actively involved in the church, they are not likely to go after him to try to excommunicate him.
The church actually believes that excommunication should be a first step back to re-entry into the church. They want excommunicated members to go through the process of repentance and ultimately be baptized again. So, from their point of view, excommunicating someone who has no interest in the church isn't a very useful thing.
Why THE LDS fail at is to remember that Jesus never said anything about gays or lesbians. He also never said "To have 12 wives that are only 6 years old" somehow The LDS thinks that is okay. LDS are the Christian Extremist (like Mormons)are the equivalent of Muslims. Christians don't fly planes into buildings however if they thought they would get virgins in heaven they would.
What Christian Extremist do is to try and get laws passed that are based on their faith. Now I don't like the following
1) Sports players & Entertainment figures that have visible tattoos.
2) Fat women wearing spandex
3) Fat Gym Teachers
4) People wearing corn rows
5) People on cellphones in the store
6) FOX NEWS
7) Parents bringing in a baby to a movie theater
8) Stupid people who can't work an ATM
However I do not want to pass laws based on my personnel beliefs. However it would be nice that if people were caught on the phone while driving they were thrown jail for 2 days.
I agree that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. Specifically at least, he did command us to love our neighbor.
But, it's kinda funny that you would bring up the polygamy issue since Mormons no longer practice it and and very quick to tell you how wrong it is. In fact, they frequently will tell you that we can't allow gay marriage equality because it will open the door to legalizing polygamy.
Ah, the irony.
No idiot a marriage is only for 2 adults of age. That is how gay people see it. It will not open the door to polygamy. That is just an excuse Christians use to keep gay people from getting married.
Funny how Your LDS creatures think. I have a cousin that converted to LDS. She is against gay marriage. I live now in New Orleans and she in California . Yesterday I get an e-mail asking if she and her family (hubby & 3 kids) can stay at my house for a few days next Summer. Well I have lived with my bf for 12 years now and since my cousin is against gay marriage I told her "I don't think its a good idea". That is all my e-mail said. About an hour later my Aunt called me saying "I was mean". Well I told her " In my whole life you have never called to say "HI". So this is the first call I get from you is to say "I am mean".
I ended up telling her "My house is not a hotel it is my home". "I do not have to have people in my home that I don't want and that includes you".
Then it gets worse she calls my dad (her brother) and he told her "your daughter would never allow a gay couple to stay in their home for 3 days....
Stanton67,
I agree, gay marriage would not open the door to polygamy - I was trying to point out the flaws and irony in the general Mormon thinking these days.
The number of people in a marriage is quite different than the genders in a marriage and polygamy easily could have been taken through the judicial system without gay marriage.
Even if gay marriage did open the door to legalized polygamy, I'm not convinced that would be a bad thing. Let me be clear, I do NOT want more than one wife. But, I have always thought that if polygamy was legal and polygamists weren't forced into hiding, maybe we wouldn't see some of the terrible abuses that we hear of now (google Warren Jeffs if you don't know what I'm talking about).
Yeah, but that's only because they willfully ignore their own religious texts (it's pretty clearly advocated in many spots). They, for some reason, aren't willing to do that for gays, though.
shareI'm actually not sure that polygamy is "clearly advocated in MANY spots"... basically just one and is then removed in another spot.
But, in my opinion, many Mormons ARE ignoring our religious texts by fighting against gay marriage.
Doctrine & Covenants 134 says: "...we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul."
Section 134 of the Docrine & Covenants is actually a beautiful treatise on government, if you care to read it you can go here: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/134. It's disheartening to me that as a church we don't seem to be following it anymore.
Section 134 of the Docrine & Covenants is actually a beautiful treatise on government, if you care to read it you can go here: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/134. It's disheartening to me that as a church we don't seem to be following it anymore.
AmericanGayAtheist,
I agree that the LDS Church leaders want to be viewed as more mainstream. Which I think is an extremely unfortunate goal... I'd rather be viewed as peculiar but believe that I'm following "truth" rather than be part of the mainstream.
It's fascinating to me to ponder what might have happened if twenty years ago the Prophet of the LDS Church had sad: "We believe that God created homosexuals just as he created heterosexuals and that He wants them to be in happy, fulfilling, committed relationships."
Yes there would have been a large number of "Christians" who would have despised us, called us sinners, depraved, etc. But, the actual GOOD that we could have done in the world would have been immeasurable.
I do think that what the Mormons and Scientologists forget is that most gay people are neither obvious or out but they do vote, and they write letters and act against those who attempt to oppress them.While I agree with what your saying and I assume that the "corporate" status of the LDS Church is always a concern especially considering our early church history... I think that it will actually take a critical mass of members of the church who are either gay or have loved ones who are gay. As that critical mass expresses itself and tells the leaders that these things are unacceptable, they'll change. share
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<< there are plenty of gay Mormons out there who are active members of the church...What they are not permitted to do is to date, kiss, or have any sexual contact. >>
Wow. They must be a ball to be around.
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ANd that is wrong. If you are gay and you are a mormon find another religion or better yet sleep in on Sundays!
shareThanks Stefan.
That's always a problem with boards like this... some people read/respond too quickly and don't realize what you are actually saying. (I'm guilty too.)
I thought my "Ah, the irony" at the end made it clear.
amberissmiling,
You're contradicting yourself. In a previous post you said that since the church was devoting itself to fighting gay marriage, you would stand with the church.
Here you are saying the you don't think the church should have any say in who marries who.
So which is it? Should the church stay out of the gay marriage debate or participate in it?
As you said: "you can't have it both ways. are we to be a tolerant society or not?"
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Agreed. The church does have a right to state its opinion and the reasons behind it.
But, as Elder Oaks (one of our apostles) said:
“When churches or church leaders choose to enter the public sector to engage in debate on a matter of public policy, they should be admitted to the debate and they should expect to participate in it on the same basis as all other participants. In other words, if churches or church leaders choose to oppose or favor a particular piece of legislation, their opinions should be received on the same basis as the opinions offered by other knowledgeable organizations or persons, and they should be considered on their merits. By the same token, churches and church leaders should expect the same broad latitude of discussion of their views that conventionally applies to everyone else’s participation in public policy debates. A church can claim access to higher authority on moral questions, but its opinions on the application of those moral questions to specific legislation will inevitably be challenged by and measured against secular-based legislative or political judgments.” Dallin H. Oaks, “Religious Values and Public Policy,” Ensign, Oct 1992, 60 [1]
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But the problem is that the church didn't simply say whether they thought it was write or wrong, they raised money for the cause, sent information to non-members, researched what kind of information would get the best reaction, regardless of whether or not it was true, printed lies, and were even instrumental in the creation of the proposition in the first place.
This crosses a line outside of free speech into a church taking part in politics, which I'm sure you'll agree is not right.
Religion has wonderful things to offer, Mormonism has a lot of beautiful aspects to it, and there are lot of people who did not know they were being lied to, who would have done the right thing had they been given the correct information. I would never bash religion nor would I ever bash someone for following a religion.
But I cannot excuse the actions of people that have detrimental consequences to people I love dearly. When individuals lie on such a public scale to make my friends look like something less than human, and to try to ensure that my friends are not allowed the rights that everyone else has, I cannot excuse that.
I've spoken with a handful of Mormons who believe the teachings and follow the religion, but do not believe that the actions of these individuals is right.
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According to the evidence in the documentary, they came up with a bunch of campaigns (flyers, leaflets, TV commercials) about the repercussions of allowing same sex marriage, tested them out on control groups, and then went with the ones that had the results they were looking for.
The main target in these ads were the children of straight couples who they claimed would be harmed, but didn't really specify how. It was simply a scare tactic. "If you love your children, you'll support Prop 8." People actually said that they did not know if this was true or not, but they would rather be safe than sorry, and that swayed their vote.
This is the church getting directly involved in politics, which is not what our country was founded on, and while they may have been careful not to tell any outright lies, the information they provided was in no way based in any kind of truth. For the most part, these ads did not simply pose one side's opinion on the issues, but attempted to tell the future, proposing consequences that are in complete opposition to evidence from states that do have legal same sex marriage, so these "guesses" that were sent out as fact were completely unfounded.
Now, in the end the majority of people bought that argument and voted Yes on Prop 8. But, if I tell a lie and someone believes me, who is at fault? Me for lying, or the person who believed my lie and acted accordingly?
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I must question whether or not you've seen the film. All of your questions would be answered if you have. And a number of people who helped produce the film were Mormons who were fed up with the behavior of some of the people in powerful positions within the church.
Yes, there are other churches and religious organizations that oppose same sex marriage, but they did not instigate the passing of a law to ban it. It was the Mormon church that started Prop 8 in the first place. The Mormon church who had a similar proposition passed in Hawaii earlier.
And they were smart enough not to send the information out as "from the Mormon church," but it was Mormon money that funded the majority of the campaign and it was the Mormon church at the head of everything that got the proposition passed, seeing as it was their pet project.
That is why the film was made. Not to attack all Mormons, but to expose the actions of a religious organization that instigated a political juggernaut and propagated lies to pass their law. If you watch to film you'll hear from gays, heterosexuals, parents of gays, politicians, Mormons, ex-Mormons... all types discussing what occurred. You'll also see that the film does not attack Mormons or religion, but analyzes and exposes a political campaign spearheaded by a religious organization to keep rights from a minority group.
Amber,
The church won another battle (just like they did with Prop 22 in California seven years prior) but they are going to lose the war. Prop 8 has already been overturned and will likely continue to lose on appeal if the courts even permit the appeal (if you follow the news on this matter you'll know that the legal standing of an appeal is being questioned).
The church itself did not produce the ads that were full of misinformation. But, the church leaders and members supported the coalitions that created the ads. Church leaders pushed members into donating the money that was used to run those ads. And, there were even some youtube videos out there that were full of misinformation.
If you want to know what misinformation we are referring to, please copy the link below. It will provide you with a pdf that goes through each of the arguments that the coalition of churches (including OUR church) used to promote Prop 8 and counters them.
http://www.mormonsformarriage.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/mat-responses-to-six-consequences-if-prop-8-fails-rev-1-1.pdf
By the way, I don't "claim" to be a member of the LDS Church. I am a member. I am an active, recommend holding member. The problem I have is not a lack of faith but a confusion in how to reconcile the teachings of former (latter-day) prophets with the actions of our church with respect to marriage equality.
You say that as far as you can tell, they did nothing wrong. Is violating the 11th Article of Faith okay? How about ignoring Doctrine & Covenants 134? President Joseph Fielding Smith told us that if a prophet spoke something that violated doctrine we are "duty bound" to reject it. How do I reconcile these things? I keep asking and nobody can seem to explain it to me. The principle argument from the church is that we must protect the "sanctity of marriage". I'd love for someone to explain how marriage equality damages my own (heterosexual) marriage. I don't see it and we still haven't made that case in any logical fashion.
Because their prophets tell them too, and they're lemmings who do whatever they're told. The Morg don't have functioning minds of their own.
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They have to resort to distortion, misinformation, and outright lies in order to try and make their case.
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...just like a little girl.
He's so enamored with me because he KNOWS that I'm telling the truth and it is eating him alive.
Next time he's getting ass-reamed, he'll probably be begging his pitcher to
"f me, questionable..f me! It hurts SO good!"
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Re: Look at the way sadmatter follows me around...
The only people that continue to try and communicate with people that aren't interested in what they have to say are the mentally disturbed.
We're talking about five weeks here, folks. I haven't responded to even one comment of his since I cut him off, yet he continues to answer most of my posts here.
Just a sick, abhorrent, isolated, insecure little fairy that nobody likes. What is really amazing is that this loser isn't a kid. I've been told that he's in his late forties!
If you can't get your act together by then, it's just a matter of time before self-destruction occurs. Hopefully, he'll get some sort of STD from all of the men he fellates which will hasten his demise. No question that the clock is ticking on this little bitch.
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Waah! Waah! Mean old hadmatter won't stop pointing out what a dishonest person I am! Boo hoo! Why does he keep answering me?! All I want to do is troll around the message boards and slander gay people and say hateful things about how homosexuals are all PERVERTS and FREAKS! What's so wrong about that!?
I wonder how long he will continue to direct posts at me
The sooner the world is cleansed of filth like him, the better.
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No sooner did I finish editing my post, the little fairy had already responded.
The funny thing is, he doesn't even realize how pathetic he has become.
and yet he continues to be on your mind and you continue to post about him, hmmmm... I know you think you are being clever but you are only showing the rest of us what a complete tool you actually are!
Go away, no one wants to hear you or your nonsense anymore....
"Atheism is a 'Religion' sort of like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby!!!"
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As long as the loser continues to quote me and respond to me directly, I will remind everyone what a jagoff he is and how he doesn't deserve a direct response
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I've been told that he's in his late forties!
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Sadmatter says a lot of things. I really don't read his posts anymore since I stopped responding to him a month and a half ago.
I reported what someone here told me in a PM. This person did some net detective work and came up with late 40's. I have no reason to disbelieve what I was told. If you have info to the contrary, post it or shut the fvck up.
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Fagbasher CONTINUES to ignore content so that he retains the ability to pretend to believe his own lies!
Nobody would ever touch his ass with a ten foot pole.
I am the sod-off shotgun.
Maybe the same way you came up with that misguided sentence, you uneducated shrew.
I have no reason to disbelieve what I was told. If you have info to the contrary, post it or shut the fvck up.
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All you do is post nincompoopery and we do know you. You are a nincompoop. You REVEAL your own nincompoopery. As a nincompoop, you are a complete waste of space.
shareThe only thing I had to go on was the address he gave.
I Googled and came up with no name, just business addresses.
When he acted like a big man saying "come and get me", he never revealed his name or age and just gave some business address. He's full of sh-t as usual. He wouldn't dare give reveal any personal information. He's a pathological liar.
I have no need to tell lies to present my point of view.
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Still scared to face me, eh? Too bad that everyone here can see that I am telling the truth.
Why don't you go off and fantasize about me some more, fagbasher?
I am the sod-off shotgun.
<< Sadmatter is a sick, misguided, fairyboy. He so desperately wants to be considered as a man but is only capable of being a little bitch. Look at the way he continues to quote my every sentence and then he responds even though I cut him off nearly two months ago. >>
But it's not about you. A lot of other people come to imdb to read without posting. It's important that what they're reading is an accurate record that answers different questions, some of which you've put out there.
So, people won't stop responding to your posts just because you somehow want them to.
If it really bothers you, you can always choose the ignore option for a particular poster, and you'll never know if they're responding to your posts or not. And choose to view threads in the FLAT option, and don't have people's responses sent to your email. You could create a new but recognizable username and just use it to post on this movie's board, if you don't want notices for discussion of other movies stopped from going to your other account.
But it's not about you. A lot of other people come to imdb to read without posting. It's important that what they're reading is an accurate record that answers different questions, some of which you've put out there.
If it really bothers you, you can always choose the ignore option for a particular poster, and you'll never know if they're responding to your posts or not.
"If it really bothers you, you can always choose the ignore option for a particular poster, and you'll never know if they're responding to your posts or not."
He actually had about 7 people on ignore when he was doing this exact same thing on the Milk board when he was going by "futuresguy," and as hadmatter said, it was hilarious because he would keep replying nonstop that he was ignoring us. From this pattern of behavior do you think he just might be obsessive compulsive? It clearly takes everything he can muster to actually stop posting entirely.
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If it really bothers you, you can always choose the ignore option for a particular poster, and you'll never know if they're responding to your posts or not.
Funny because it only demonstartes that he's ASHAMED of himself. Certainly isn't the least bit surprising. The TRUTH hits these delusionals the hardest.]
Whenever I mention ANYTHING re: his sexual behavior, he can't bear to see it.
Funny because it only demonstartes that he's ASHAMED of himself. Certainly isn't the least bit surprising. The TRUTH hits these delusionals the hardest.
Whenever I mention ANYTHING re: his sexual behavior, he can't bear to see it.
Funny because it only demonstartes that he's ASHAMED of himself. Certainly isn't the least bit surprising. The TRUTH hits these delusionals the hardest.
The shameful thing is that YOU are a part of the human race! How hateful that you are allowed to represent other human... (since you have no resemblance to them whatsoever)!
"Today's religion is tomorrow's superstition!!!"
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"In reality any woman can take you out with 4 little words. Is it in yet?"
Once again, you demonstrate that you live in a fantasy world. You know absolutely nothing about me yet you continually make stupid and misinforned comments. I really wish you would step on a land mine already. You're a complete waste of space.
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I love replying to your posts. It gives us all an insight into a radical loon's mind who fabricates anything and everything.
"Whatever I’ll type about you, there’s a 50% chance it might be true"
Yes..another brilliant statement. Did you even graduate from high school, you stupid kunt?
"And if I judge by the way you're always replying, it was a hit every time!"
I love replying to your posts. It gives us all an insight into a radical loon's mind who fabricates anything and everything. You're a real piece of work.
Are you not referring to yourself in that last bit? Also, it's ideologues, not "idealogues".
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He's just another run of the mill, ordinary, homophobic bigot, who has not learned that the world has moved on and he is being left behind!
He is very sad and pathetic...
"Today's religion is tomorrow's superstition!!!"
It just gives me a free pass to show everyone what a lying, scumbag, loser he is.
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A lot of religions hate gays, dont pick on just one because you lack knowledge and are naive.
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