MovieChat Forums > Lebanon (2009) Discussion > Nice Israelis invade Lebanon to save poo...

Nice Israelis invade Lebanon to save poor Arab from nasty Christians.

posted 13 years ago by adam_jondo
16 replies | jump to latest

That was the subliminal plot wasn't it?
Same as they did in 1982... Not.

As the story progressed my anger was so focussed on the two Christian Milita boogeymen that I all but forgot about the Tank Crews deliberate deployment of illegal phosporous shells (aka: the chemical weapon that burns straight through to the bone and then just KEEPS ON BURNING because NOTHING repeat NOTHING can extinguish it).

But hey, they were only "following orders".
Just like those other psychos back at... er... Nuremberg.

What a cunningly well scripted, acted, and directed propaganda piece.

If only you could see what I have seen through your eyes.

[–] f2039 13 years ago

an interview with the director - a local Jewish newspaper in Istanbul

http://www.salom.com.tr/news/detail/15470-Lubnan-filminin-Israilli-yonetmeni-SAMUEL-MAOZ-Filmi-Venedik-icin-degil.aspx

he honestly admits his fascist roots at one point: "...victory was won in Six-Day War, when people were Zionist and idealist. But Lebanon War isn't like that. New generation is not that motivated. They don't like war that much. We left our borders to fight for a country other than Israel. It was the first war WE WON outside our borders. There's no example to a country who won a war outside their borders in history."

for those who have slight doubt that the director is open-minded...

[–] adam_jondo 13 years ago

"Zionism" and "Idealism" are mutually incompatible.

(Think that merits a new thread - See Message Board)

If only you could see what I have seen with your eyes.

[–] jeffandsarah-1 12 years ago

Seem to remember WW 1 + 2 fitting the bill.

[–] youngian67 11 years ago

I liked the claustrophobia of the situation and the men trying to cope with it. It was reminiscent of Das Boot and Ice Cold in Alex which take a similar approach. Oh no this must make me a pro-Israeli, Nazi, pro-British imperialist!

[–] adam_jondo 13 years ago

Dear slayintheilluminati,

Just read your post on my other "Lebabon" thread (adjacent) in which you accuse Zionists of being out and out Satan Worshippers.

No offence but that's just puerile paranoid *beep*

If you can't add something constructive (pro or anti) to the debate then don't bother posting at all.

Failing which, stay off my team.

You and I are singing from TOTALLY different song sheets.

If only you could see what I have seen through your eyes.

[–] emncaity 13 years ago

>> death to zionist jews!!! <<

Yeah, yeah...death to everybody, and the whole world dead. And they'll remind you of the last thing your side did, and you'll remind them of the last thing their side did, and everybody's going to pretend that their own people never enslaved or murdered anybody.

[–] elkanap 13 years ago

Same as in 1982? This IS 1982!!

There were no Christian Militia bogeymen: given a chance, the Syrian soldier would have said (and done) precisely the same thing to the Phalangist.

The fact that Jamil tells the tank crew to deploy phosphorus shell is clearly presented as a negative, abhorrent thing to do. This is the opposite of a "propaganda piece". The shooter always hesitates or doesn't shoot at all, jeopardizing his own crew in the process.

Your "following orders" remark is pure, stinky anti-semitism. Jews = Nazis. Congratulations for sinking to the lowest common denominator. Not to mention the fact that - unlike those Wermacht and SS soldiers - no one actually follows orders in this movie.

It's you who follow clear propaganda guidelines (a Zionist Jew = bad Jew) The movie was a superb piece of film making, in which there were no heroes, only victims.

In Israel, this movie was criticized for being anti-Israeli, so I guess the director achieved his goal of pissing *everybody* off.

A proud Jew, Zionist and ex-IDF soldier

George G

[–] mikecampaul 13 years ago

ITs not anti-semitic to metion Nuremberg. Because when it all comes out what u brave former IDF soilders did do to children, taking them in the middle of the night and holping ppl without trial , and the robbing and i imangineing raping of palistines in the villages u oppress ( knowing god dam well a mulism girl will never say anything ). I think the world will have a Nuremberg.

For U

[–] nagmashdriver 8 years ago

Kol hakavode, George.

Steve M.
Nachal, machzor P"V (June, 1986 geeyoos)

[–] wulfthar 13 years ago

You don't get it: the nasty Christians were Isral's allies and the movie is a cricitism of Isreal. Even the part of the phosphorous shell is a direct criticsm to the Israeli Army.

Juliet Parrish: You can't win a war if you're extinct!

[–] pfarnell 8 years ago

I'd have thought so..

Philange went into the Sabra/Shatila 'refugee camp" (actually a heavily a-armed militant training camp for years, read Salaam Kemal's 'the blood of the Lambs" for his experience there) and butchered 2000 people, for which Sharon and co are always blamed (not the Lebanese themselves who actually eagerly did this killing) so, I would have assumed that Maronites were simply Israel's logical allies of convenience , in preference to PLO/Hezbollah/Syria.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Database_Man 11 years ago

White phosphorus use is not completely illegal even now (it is allowed to be used for illumination) and was not illegal at all back then. It was used by US Army in Iraq, by Russians in Chechnya and in other places as well.

Soldiers surely must obey the orders, when the orders are not illegal.

Speaking of Nuremberg, the only similarity I could find with it were the Arab fighters, Palestinian or Syrian, who were hiding behind a woman while shooting at Israelis. Using civilians as human shields was sure Nuremberg.

However, that episode was so tiny and unremarkable, that I would not call the whole movie a "propaganda piece".

[–] nagmashdriver 8 years ago

No, Adam.

Nice, civilized Israelis invade Lebanon to root out the cancer called Hizbollah/PLO/Islamofascists who continue to lob rockets and send fedayeen killers into Israel to murder civilians.

Life is hard enough; why do you make it harder by being an anti-semitic Leftist living in a fantasy world???

[–] adam_jondo 8 years ago

No nagmash,

That's just lazy and superficial.

There's nothing inherently racist about querying the wisdom/morality of a soverign state's political choices and history. On the contrary, constructive (3rd party and self) criticism is intrinsicly valuable and necessary to any society or individual's healthy evolution (note its conspicuous absence in most societies and individuals that go awry).

True, SOME critics of nation states are motivated by veiled racism but I am absolutely not one of them and abhor such immoral stupidity.

Bottom line, ALL human beings are responsible and answerable for their CHOICES. But the inevitabilities of their condition (eg: Their race, sex, nationality, physical beauty/ugliness, hair color, shoe size, - and, I would argue, their sexuality) are outside their choice and are therefore beyond all reproach or praise.

In fact there's no point my expanding into the specifics of the Israel/Palastine debate unless we both concur on this rudimentary moral axiom.

So are we agreement so far?

Y/N?

If yes (Y) then could be there's a constructive dialogue to be had here.

If not (N) - Then on what grounds (examples please) would you hold an individual morally accountable for characteristics and eventualities that are beyond his/her conscious or unconscious choice?

If only you could see what I have seen with your eyes.

[–] adam_jondo 8 years ago

So guess that's a (N)o then.

Classy debating skills there nagmashdriver.

Just as well you've got phospherous bombs and psychological denial to fall back on.

If only you could see what I have seen with your eyes.