MovieChat Forums > The Lorax (2012) Discussion > About the 'propaganda'

About the 'propaganda'

posted 12 years ago by Eorcanstan
24 replies | jump to latest

I've seen a lot of complaints on this board on the "political reach" of this movie, and how it's inappropriate for children. I think that these people are forgetting the fact that most little kids wouldn't be able to perceive any deep political or corporate undertones, they haven't been exposed to enough of that yet.

What are the things that kids would see? That the environment is important. That promises should't be broken. That you can find a friend in anybody. That no matter how small you are, you can make a difference.

So to the people that believe that the more mature messages are directed to kids, they couldn't be. But they could be made for parents to pick up on, like how with so much power, and individual has the opportunity to turn the world dystopian.

I'm still just a teenager, so I'm sure that I didn't pick up on all that everyone's been talking about. But really, subliminal messages aren't all that effective if they're targeting kids who wouldn't understand them.

They just see the bad guy doing bad things to good people.

Like a boss
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[–] monstermayhem32 12 years ago

The movie is political but it does have a rather positive message about saving the environment which is rather important.

[–] Eorcanstan 12 years ago

Oh I agree, very political. I'm just disagreeing with those who are saying that it's corrupting the minds of 5 year-olds, and how that isn't really what they see at all.

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http://3beautifulbamfs.wordpress.com/

[–] gcarras 12 years ago

Yes; Thsat the environment is important. That ADULTS are wrong because THEWY Screewed it up, That voice actors are worthless. That humor (which BURIES the jokes, like the needless and now famous "THat is a WOMAN?", fart jokes,etc.) are neccary. That Ho0llywood references are needed. Jusat like Rango but with liberal messages.

[–] Heretic_Of_Jeff_Bezos 12 years ago

First of all, politically speaking this movie is evil. It trashes conservatives and insults us. Conservatives on average are the people with more money, so this is a puzzling move.

You see, we conservatives support pollution. First, we need to not only bring "smog" back to LA, because smog = jobs. Next we need to knock down every, single, mountain everywhere and burn all the coal we can get our hands on, lift all regulation and oversight so that industry can pollute and poison all it wants in the name of capitalism and hope someday all our rivers and streams can be set on fire. With all the money we make from knocking down the mountains, we'll have plenty of money for fire extinguishers anyways.

Furthermore we will not abide by 'scientific' data detailing how CO2 in the atmosphere directly correlates to climate temperatures or all this desalinization of the ocean BS, no matter how many times you check it and see that it's in fact less saturated with salt due to fresh water melt. Above all we call all you liberal anti-capitalist, socialist dummies who are so stupid you're pushing an agenda for clean air and water and to slow climate change and not making a single dime of profit off it.

You can't do that. An economic model needs to be profitable to be sustainable. We need to go into the business of destruction again.

I am the prophet of the IMDb Moderator Gods. Tremble in my presence!

[–] Strazdamonas 12 years ago

Conservatives, on average, are idiots. So this may not be monetary structural move, but certainly the RIGHT one.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

[–] averagejoeman2013 11 years ago

"Conservatives, on average, are idiots."

LOL. So Occupy (with its destruction of property and arrests), 18 trillion in debt approaching, high government dependency, lack of giving to charity, wanting to revert to energ ypolicies that would destabilize the western world, offering appeasement to 3rd world dictators, etc. Yeah...its not the liberals who are (on average) idiots at all :)

Ok..vent aside. Its was a kid's movie and repsonsible adults will talk to their children about what they just saw.

"How's the steak?" "It was poisoned (argh)...and a little rare" (collapses).

[–] Strazdamonas 11 years ago

Occupy does not represent the average person, do you agree? The occupy people werent the smartest ones.
The debt was msotly caused by conservatives. That is quite clear because it is very hard to find an actual liberal in american politics anymore, only varying degrees of Right.
High government dependency? You mean like those conservative control laws?
Giing to charity has nothing to do with political ideology. For example i got good logical reasons not to give to charity at the state it is now. Also, charity is usually seen as liberal thing, therefore those not giving would be conservatives.
Not sure about what destabilizing enery policies you are talking about, but the attempt to secure safe enviroment is a good goal if that is what your talking about.
3rd world diactators are supported by conservatives.
It seems that you are mixing the conservative and liberals up.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

[–] averagejoeman2013 11 years ago

** I appreciated your civil response. Not what I expected but was grateful of that :)

"Occupy does not represent the average person, do you agree? The occupy people werent the smartest ones."

Occupy doesn't represent the average person, for certain. But they did represent views of the left more predominantly in their rants against capitalism and general demeanor.

"The debt was msotly caused by conservatives."

Correction. The debt was caused by a varying group of politicians....but they clearly did not have conservative fiscal policies in this regard.

"That is quite clear because it is very hard to find an actual liberal in american politics anymore, only varying degrees of Right."

Actually the representatives continue to move towards the left in both fiscal and social matters. The only way to suggest the Americans are not liberal is when compared to far left nations as a comparison.

"High government dependency? You mean like those conservative control laws?"

I mean the ones backed by a majority of politicians who range from moderate left to far left.

"Giing to charity has nothing to do with political ideology. For example i got good logical reasons not to give to charity at the state it is now. Also, charity is usually seen as liberal thing, therefore those not giving would be conservatives."

Sorry, but statistically, the average liberal earns more but gives far less to charity. A simple google will show you countless stats on the issue, but Id be happy to post them if you'd prefer.

"It seems that you are mixing the conservative and liberals up."

I appreciate your civil tone. That's a rare find when discussing politics on an internet board. But I believe you may be confusing conservatives with GOP. It is clear from the fiscal policies that conservatives have not been establishing such policies for a considerable length of time.

"Conservatives = Fearful , superstitious, semiliterates."

And yet more grounded in reality and make sound decisions as opposed to overly emotional ones. No offense.. I am sure you are very brilliant in your own mind.

"Sit your five dollar @ss down before I make change."

[–] Strazdamonas 11 years ago

Occupy doesn't represent the average person, for certain. But they did represent views of the left more predominantly in their rants against capitalism and general demeanor.

Fair enough, their views could be seen as a left views, though frankly i tried to find their views and it seems that they themselves didnt knew what they were protesting for.

Correction. The debt was caused by a varying group of politicians....but they clearly did not have conservative fiscal policies in this regard.

Fair enough. Though conservative fiscal policies and conservative politica view does not always collide.

Actually the representatives continue to move towards the left in both fiscal and social matters. The only way to suggest the Americans are not liberal is when compared to far left nations as a comparison.

please look at this chart:
http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/leaders.JPG
There are many charts with different people in the internet, i just picked one that represented more recent "big people" and one whose origins i am somewhat familiar with (it was a political views questionaire website that colelcted extensive data on leader views).
Americans are quite clear in he Right. Americans are in the right when compared to pretty much any other nation in the world save for diactatorships. a good example to comapre is Europe, for they have similar economical climate and similar culture. And compared to Europe there is no real left in America at all.
I sincerely wish it would be true that american politics moved towards more leftist policies, however....

I mean the ones backed by a majority of politicians who range from moderate left to far left.

So thats what? 10 politicians? because left sided politicians are the minority in America. And if anything american leftists whne you go towards real leftists and not the "im a conservative but call me democrat because ill win more votes like that" the policies are more liberal than authoritarian.

Sorry, but statistically, the average liberal earns more but gives far less to charity. A simple google will show you countless stats on the issue, but Id be happy to post them if you'd prefer.

I did not dispute that. I claimed that giving or not giving t charity may have other than political reasons. corelation is not causation. If we use that logic then violent video games stop real life violence, because the rise in popularity also was followed in drop in real life crimes. Statistically the ties here are as much as in the situation you propose.

I appreciate your civil tone. That's a rare find when discussing politics on an internet board.

Indeed, many people especially here on IMDB usually end up with "leftist propaganda" and "conservative idiot" instead of real aruments. I am of the opinion that we should be able to discuss everything logically and calmly. Including religion.

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Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

[–] AarOnHisBox 10 years ago

Actually Occupy involved a majority of tea party members...gee, um...which party are they associated with? Hmm...

No corrections. Of the 72% increase of debt-to-GDP since Reagan took control in 1981 (when tax rates on the top tax bracket were 70%, and when he was done, they were 28% on the top tax bracket, while the middle class was paying 33%, more than the upper class - the only time in history that people making less AND adding more to the national GDP, were paying a higher percentage of their income than the wealthy - Oh, Reagan also tripled the debt, taking it from under 1 trillion to almost 3, by the time Bush was done [not because of Bush, just because of complete lack of revenue because of Reagan tax cuts that not only did not create jobs, but the first time he cut the taxes for the rich it sent us to 10.8% unemployment, and the second two time, in two years, it put us into a recession that Bush did everything he could - and was actually the last decent republican president since WW2 - to fix, but by the time he was done our debt was approaching 6 trillion...all by the end of 1992 and in just a decade..they created debt faster under Reagan, despite that Clinton, Bush, and Obama have had inflation against them, than the next three presidents would...but also set a standard for how revenues would be collected...how? they wouldn't be...and somehow...this big war machine we created would pay for itself...broken promises = conservatives to the American people = American people = clueless/uneducated = broken US - hey, but at least China loves when we elect republicans, it speeds up our demise]...

Between Republican administrations and democratic administrations, the debt-to-GDP ratio has gone up 53% under republicans, and 19% under democrats...

but yeah, its both parties...keep telling yourself that.

"Conservative fiscal policies" - do you even know what that means? You do not. It's a talking point. You're clueless. What conservative fiscal policies are there other than taking away from the middle class and giving to the upper class? It is ALL THAT THE GOP HAS FOUGHT FOR IN THE LAST 30 YEARS! GO educated yourself!

I love how you think conservatives are grounded in reality...ROFLMAO...no, most conservatives are uneducated, grounded in Fox News reality, which is so objectionable, a nonpartisan cannot even watch it because it is so disgustingly one sided its like watching a Tiger eat a new born baby child...there is no true or balance on that channel and it has destroyed the knowledge base of so many conservatives that ultimately, it is spelling doom for the GOP, which I grateful for, but its going to leave a lot of people like you confused and lost if you aren't one of the people that WAKES THE *beep* UP...

Conservative giving to charity, divided up to charitable giving that isn't about "tax write-offs" actually goes 4 to 1 in the favor of people who consider themselves democrats or "liberal." I find it hilarious that you think people like Mitt Romney, paying a 14% tax rate on his 12 million dollars annual earnings, can give 4 million dollars to HIS CHURCH (meaning, 4 million less taxed by the government that the rest of us have to do without because he wanted to give it to his church - how is that fair? why should his religious beliefs let him out of paying his taxes?), write off that 4 million from his taxes, and then the church uses that 4 million to pay for his travel expenses (jet fuel when one flies around on private jets gets expensive), food, and boarding costs whenever he is out of state. This is how most rich people get around taxes...FAKE charitable donations that they end up being spend right back on them...one of the many well known conservative tricks to avoid taxes and pretend they give to charity when they are just stealing 95% of it back for themselves...yes, that's how LOW wealthy conservatives are...the fact that you think its any different...makes me want to laugh in your face...

You do know the Heritage Foundation is considered a "non-profit" charity, right? I think I've torn you apart enough. Go lick your wounds and educate yourself old man.

[–] averagejoeman2013 8 years ago

"Actually Occupy involved a majority of tea party members...gee, um...which party are they associated with? Hmm..."

Since its a lie no need to go any further. The Tea Party represents less government overreach..not more. The Tea Party represents lower fiscal spending and strict Constitutional approaches..not an overreach to "make the system fair".

"Between Republican administrations and democratic administrations, the debt-to-GDP ratio has gone up 53% under republicans, and 19% under democrats..."

Debt went up from basically 10 to 21 under Obama which concided with the debt passing GDP and our first credit downgrade. And you are confusing Republicans with Conservatives but I understand the spin you had to use. Game.set.match.

"but yeah, its both parties...keep telling yourself that."

I will tell anyone that but they need to be bright enough to comprehend it. No offense. Get back to us when you check on the debt before and after Obama and how it surpasses all previous combined. You're welcome, kid.

""Conservative fiscal policies" - do you even know what that means? You do not. It's a talking point. You're clueless. What conservative fiscal policies are there other than taking away from the middle class and giving to the upper class? It is ALL THAT THE GOP HAS FOUGHT FOR IN THE LAST 30 YEARS! GO educated yourself!"

Its "EDUCATE" yourself..not educated, Mr Bright guy...lol...dumb@ss. Yes, I've forgotten more than you will ever know on both progressive and conservative fiscal policies. But I would be wasting my time since you cannot even process basic math.

"I love how you think conservatives are grounded in reality...ROFLMAO...no, most conservatives are uneducated, grounded in Fox News reality, which is so objectionable, a nonpartisan cannot even watch it because it is so disgustingly one sided its like watching a Tiger eat a new born baby child...there is no true or balance on that channel and it has destroyed the knowledge base of so many conservatives that ultimately, it is spelling doom for the GOP, which I grateful for, but its going to leave a lot of people like you confused and lost if you aren't one of the people that WAKES THE *beep* UP..."

Try to use proper grammar and use a "period" at the end of your sentences. So much for your "education". In reality, conservatives are smarter, give more to charity, have more stable homes, and live longer.

"Conservative giving to charity, divided up to charitable giving that isn't about "tax write-offs" actually goes 4 to 1 in the favor of people who consider themselves democrats or "liberal.""

Sorry, kid. Conservatives give more money to charity despite earning slightly less on average.

http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/castingstones/2008/04/conservatives-give-more-to-cha.html

"I find it hilarious that you think people like Mitt Romney, paying a 14% tax rate on his 12 million dollars annual earnings, can give 4 million dollars to HIS CHURCH (meaning, 4 million less taxed by the government that the rest of us have to do without because he wanted to give it to his church - how is that fair?"

So..you find it "hilarious" a guy gives money to a church? Ok...someone is starved for entertainment. Are you upset that close to half the US doesnt pay any FIT? Why do you believe you are entitled to his money that he earns by drawing off of an investment he invested in with post-tax dollars?

"why should his religious beliefs let him out of paying his taxes?"

They aren't. One doesnt need to have a religious belief to donate to a charity, Einstein.

"I think I've torn you apart enough. Go lick your wounds and educate yourself old man."

When you said "I THINK", we knew you were lying. Now go grow some pubes and brain cells and come back to us in about 10 - 15 years if you've moved out of your parent's basement and begun to pay taxes, kid. Good day to you.

[–] info-12388 10 years ago

Two trillion of the debt is the long-range fall out from the unneeded Bush tax cuts.

Another two trillion comes from two wars fought off the books (and no, the expenses of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are *not* part of defence spending, which is why Congress had to pass CRs to keep funding the damn things.

Another *four* trillion comes from ancillary spending attendant to the wars: the "embassy compound" in Tehran, for example, that was way overbuilt for its need, and the failed infrastructure rebuilding that had to be done over and over.

Fully half your debt comes from your mindless wars to protect your oil interests, brought to you by a pair of conservative shysters who conned everyone into thinking this was some kind of "war on terror". I suggest dealing with it.

[–] sforzando_films 10 years ago

You're all idiots. You're all missing the underlying issue here: THIS. MOVIE. IS. TERRIBLE.

Here's a slinky, go play.

[–] averagejoeman2013 8 years ago

"Two trillion of the debt is the long-range fall out from the unneeded Bush tax cuts."

Two trillion against ten?....even if true its still puts progressive policy in the S__ where it belongs. And the money belonged to the people; not the government. THe problem was there wasnt an equal budget cut.

"Fully half your debt comes from your mindless wars to protect your oil interests, brought to you by a pair of conservative shysters who conned everyone into thinking this was some kind of "war on terror". I suggest dealing with it."

BS. More than 20 trillion budgeted for the Great Society which has led to more dependence and a decline in standards all across the board. THe imaginary budgets you cited arent listed in the CBO as the spending is primarily for SS, Medicare, Defense, and discretionary. And if you believe a true conservative believes in that level of overspending, then you are the type of voter Gruber referred to as the type who would actually believe Obamacare was a good idea and has been a success.

[–] ACusterDecision 11 years ago

Conservatives = Fearful , superstitious, semiliterates.

[–] averagejoeman2013 8 years ago

Even though they are typically smarter, more giving to charity, happier, and have more practical policies?

As for fear, look at the DNC if you have a chance:

"They wanna put y'all back in chains" - Joe Biden

"War on women"

Booing the boy scouts

Equating illegal aliens with immigrants who didnt break laws to come over.

Whats scary isnt that liberals aren't semi-literates, its that they believe they aren't.

[–] DirtyYoungBoy 11 years ago

"Conservatives on average are the people with more money." This is not true. The top three riches people in America are Democrats

[–] distant-skies 12 years ago

Only the people with agendas are the ones complicating politics out of a cartoon, trying to shoehorn their interests into a philosophy through irrational mumbo jumbo.

Why can't you be a non-conformist like everyone else?

[–] MsILuvMovies 11 years ago

Subliminal messages do affect the subconscious/unconscious mind by "conditioning" the target (in this case - children). Children may not fully understand it yet but the hidden message is transmitted directly to the primitive part of the brain. I agree with the people who claim about the propaganda being pushed in this animated movie. There are loads of scenes in this film that are disturbing and I hope that parents are able to explain it to their children.

I watched this film with my daughter and she even noticed the "subliminal" messages herself. Don't worry... she won't be brainwashed. I explained to her about the idea of big brother, scare tactics (by the powers that be) and the herd mentality in this film as not being good. The most obvious subliminal of all in The Lorax is that song entitled "How Bad Can I Be?" It's the most sinister song I've seen and heard in a cartoon.

[–] distant-skies 11 years ago

So basically you choose to brainwash your daughter in your image, as opposed to the theoretical propaganda in this movie.

If you were really serious about not brainwashing your kid, you would tell her to be weary, to not believe everything she hears, and most importantly to think critically to make up her own mind about it. The hilarious thing is that you think you're being fair, not biased by demonizing this movie to her.

she even noticed the "subliminal" messages herself

Liar.

Why can't you be a non-conformist like everyone else?

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] asprettyasme 10 years ago

Your 100% correct, I agree with you! Little kids are only into the setting and how silly the characters act. Its a magical world filled with talking animals and its just really fun to watch. I remember being a kid and when I was young, I never caught on to any of the adult jokes or meanings and it wasn't because I was stupid. It was because I was innocent and I was just enjoying being a kid.

If people are that upset by the movie then deep down inside they must feel guilty. The movie was beautiful and had a very positive message and so there is no reason for it to be hated on to that level of extreme. Ppl really don't like their mistakes being thrown in their face so if someone is polluting then this movie must make them feel really bad inside.

[–] Thought_Criminal_J62377 8 years ago

Your 100% correct, I agree with you! Little kids are only into the setting and how silly the characters act. Its a magical world filled with talking animals and its just really fun to watch.

You're underestimating kids. These messages build upon each other and by the time these kids are grown up, they're formed the way Hollywood liberals wanted them to be.

Don't be fooled, Hollywood is aware of their influence and I can provide you plenty of quotes from them on this subject, if you require me to do so. Many writers, producers, etc, have spoken candidly about their power to shape public perception. Why else do you think the under 30 generation applauds gay marriage, for example?

It's not because they're better educated, it's because the entertainment industry and the media have done such a bang up job defaming God and teaching them that it's cool to be gay and promiscuous.

The movie was beautiful

I don't know how you can say this because it was very underwhelming just as a movie. It would be in the bottom 30% of all high profile animated movies ever made.

and it wasn't because I was stupid.

Ppl really don't like their mistakes being thrown in their face.

Your first quote undermines your second quote. Because if you were smarter, you'd understand why people have a problem with this movie. It's not because they're guilty of those "mistakes," it's because liberals (through this movie)are unfairly pointing the finger at conservatives. It would be like a movie portraying liberals as liars who have no concept of truth and conservatives as the heroes trying to stop the dirty, lying liberals.

I don't know who's actually to blame for anything, but I see plenty of wrong on both sides. I just happen to agree with conservatives about the most important things; morality and the second amendment. Liberals bear a variation of the hippie mantra from the 60's. And it goes "Have raunchy, meaningless sex, with as many people as you can, as often as you can, preferably gay sex, instead of war."

Yea, Tho I Walk Thru The Valley Of The Shadow Of Political Correctness...🇺🇸

[–] gcarras (2726) 5 years ago

What would kids see?

THat random celebrities* are better than voices.

That anti-adult, anti-older gen. is important.,sigh

*Though not neccesarily an evil, as Pixar
's shown.