MovieChat Forums > Sherlock (2010) Discussion > Last-minute discussion: The difference b...

Last-minute discussion: The difference between Mofftis' writing styles?

posted 7 years ago by Njardargata
19 replies | jump to latest

I've been thinking... A lot of the critizism concerning the writing of this show is directed specifically at Moffat, not Gatiss. I've never watched Dr Who, but I gather that OTT plot twists, choosing shock value over logic, poorly written female characters etc are elements for which Moffat is critizised on a regular basis :D

And yet, Moffat and Gatiss co-write both shows. I find it difficult to tell the two writer's style apart. What are Gatiss signature traits as a writer and why doesn't he recieve as much critizism as Moffat?

And FTR - I find Sherlock to be among the best and most well written shows I've ever seen. The dialogue is witty and layered and you really get a feeling that both writers put a lot of thought into their work. I do think some of the critique directed towards the show is justified, but it's not the script as much as the plot ideas that could have been different (as in less crazy and full of plot holes, lol)...

[–] MagdaFR 7 years ago

I think Moffat is a better writer than Gatiss.

I watched Doctor Who but I just enjoyed it as it came, didn't analise episode by episode and I don't exactly know which one was Moffat's and which wasn't (some I know)

Sherlock is easiest to discuss because of having so few episodes. I didn't like T6T, written by Gatiss.

The only great episode written by Gatiss is TGG imo.

Doctor Who is more associated with Moffat because of him being the show runner and a great part of the followers of both series are the same so they bring their experience with DW to SH.

[–] Njardargata 7 years ago

Seems both the best AND the worst episodes are written by Moffat?

I like The Great Game, though.

Maybe, if there is a series 5, they should do what George Lucas did and hand over the reins completely. Let a new talented team take over Sherlock...

[–] GJSchear 7 years ago

Maybe, if there is a series 5, they should do what George Lucas did and hand over the reins completely. Let a new talented team take over Sherlock...

So they should take their creation, a labour of love that they developed into a huge international hit, and hand it over to someone else... because a few entitled fans didn't like S4?

I won't hold my breath.

https://rycardus.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/sherlock-and-the-sorcerer/

[–] lotte1942 7 years ago

So they should take their creation, a labour of love that they developed into a huge international hit, and hand it over to someone else...

Well, George Lucas did exactly the same. He took his creation, labour of love, which was a big international hit, and gave it to someone else. See, such things happen.

Not to mention that Sherlock is not entirely creation of Mofftiss as these are characters of ACD, they simply took them and adapted them.

because a few entitled fans didn't like S4?

Judging by viewing figures and critical reception, it was not just a few fans who didn't like Season 4. Season 4 did worse on all fronts than previous seasons.

[–] GJSchear 7 years ago

Well, George Lucas did exactly the same. He took his creation, labour of love, which was a big international hit, and gave it to someone else. See, such things happen.

Hardly exactly the same. George Lucas didn't hand over his franchise just a matter of weeks after his most recent film was released. It happened years later. He also has control over the story and how it progresses.

Not to mention that Sherlock is not entirely creation of Mofftiss as these are characters of ACD, they simply took them and adapted them.

In a unique and original way. If you don't think there's anything that sets Sherlock apart from other Holmes adaptations, then I have to ask why Mofftiss needs to hand the reins of THIS particular series over to anyone. Couldn't new writers / producers just do their own version of Holmes?

Judging by viewing figures and critical reception, it was not just a few fans who didn't like Season 4. Season 4 did worse on all fronts than previous seasons.

Doesn't mean there wouldn't be an audience for a Mofftiss S5, though.

If Hartswood did decide to hand over writing / producing rights of the series to some other company, what are the chances the entire production team and cast will stay on board?

Just because you disliked S4 doesn't mean everyone did.

https://rycardus.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/sherlock-and-the-sorcerer/

[–] Njardargata 7 years ago

Oh dear! For the record, I wasn't being completely serious in suggesting the writers should hand it over to somebody else. :) In other threads I have actually defended the show. Even if they sometimes took a different route in their storytelling than what I expected (or wanted), I still think Mofftiss have created an amazing show, on a level far above most tv shows. I don't think anyone else COULD write it. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't listen to some of the critique they're getting... I'd love a series 5, but not if it's got even more melodrama at the expense of good case-solving.

Anyway, I was curious about Gatiss' and Moffat's style differenses, that's all. And wasn't there a third writer in series 1?

[–] GJSchear 7 years ago

I still think Mofftiss have created an amazing show, on a level far above most tv shows. I don't think anyone else COULD write it. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't listen to some of the critique they're getting...

Fair enough. But I think there are plenty of people who would say it was Moffit and Gatiss listening too much to critiques that caused the series deterioration (assuming you agree with that particular assessment.)

https://rycardus.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/sherlock-and-the-sorcerer/

[–] kete 7 years ago

And wasn't there a third writer in series 1?

Yes, there was another writer. Stephen Thompson. He wrote TBB, TRF and parts of TSoT. I don't think he had much influence on Mofftiss though.

[–] lotte1942 7 years ago

Oh dear! For the record, I wasn't being completely serious in suggesting the writers should hand it over to somebody else. :)

Don't worry. I think people got it in general. I'm having a slightly tongue in cheek discussion of this particular matter here, for example. For fun. After all Mofftiss are not some sacred cow and when people take them way too serious or revered, it's getting a bit hilarious.

[–] MagdaFR 7 years ago

After all Mofftiss are not some sacred cow and when people take them way too serious or revered, it's getting a bit hilarious

You seem to take them very seriously yourself. The only difference is that you like to trash them. You've been on this forum for ages.

[–] lotte1942 7 years ago

Hardly exactly the same. George Lucas didn't hand over his franchise just a matter of weeks after his most recent film was released. It happened years later. He also has control over the story and how it progresses.

Well, the show has years between seasons anyway. Plus, it's not the movies, but TV show. There is a window to give the show to another showrunner, scriptwriters during such hiatus, while having some sort of creative control.

In a unique and original way. If you don't think there's anything that sets Sherlock apart from other Holmes adaptations, then I have to ask why Mofftiss needs to hand the reins of THIS particular series over to anyone. Couldn't new writers / producers just do their own version of Holmes?

Yeah, but still they needed somebody else's works for it or they wouldn't have any show to begin with. It's not 100% their product. They can outsource that original touch they initially put on Sherlock to somebody else now, besides, originality and uniqueness really dimmed lately as they started to blatantly copy ideas, approach, plot twists and whatnot from other movies, TV series and etc., showing that the show is no longer as original as it's used to be anyway.

Doesn't mean there wouldn't be an audience for a Mofftiss S5, though.

The appetite for show has seriously weakened as Season 4 showed, so it's under question if they would make Season 5 now at all. Not much enthusiasm, it seems, from even Mofftiss themselves. Only some vague words.

If Hartswood did decide to hand over writing / producing rights of the series to some other company, what are the chances the entire production team and cast will stay on board?

Depends on how they could switch showrunners/scriptwriters. Production team and cast may remain if cast (two main stars) decide the scripts are interesting to them and throw their support behind it. Though it's likely that due to successful movie careers now they will drop the show as they simply don't have time for this in their busy schedules.

Just because you disliked S4 doesn't mean everyone did.

As I said, it's not only about me, it's about Season 4 reception in general. It was spectacularly lackluster.

[–] kete 7 years ago

Why would it even be necessary to switch the production company? I'm pretty sure Hartswood works with other writers, too.

[–] GJSchear 7 years ago

Why would it even be necessary to switch the production company? I'm pretty sure Hartswood works with other writers, too.

Hartswood is owned by Beryl Vertue, mother of Sue Vertue (Steven Moffat's wife.)

Sure, there are other writers, but I really can't see them going outside family unless Moffat volunteers to relinquish the reins.

https://rycardus.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/sherlock-and-the-sorcerer/[/url]

[–] kete 7 years ago

That is common knowledge. But Sherlock isn't the only show they produce and the writing could be taken over by someone else without problem with SM&MG still producing the programme.

[–] GJSchear 7 years ago

The point I'm making is if Moffat doesn't willingly relinquish his writing duties, it could make for a very awkward family situation. Could they do it? Of course. But would you want to tell your son-in-law he's fired from the massively successful show he co-created? Talk about your unpleasant Christmas dinners...

https://rycardus.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/sherlock-and-the-sorcerer/

[–] kete 7 years ago

No one talked about 'not willingly'. I don't suppose they could do that; though I've no idea whether he has sold his copyright to Hartswood, let's assume he hasn't. But, if he has at least some business sense it could turn out to be a good idea to let another writer or team continue.

[–] Njardargata 7 years ago

Dear me, this turned into quite a debate... :)

The way I see it, Moftiss doesn't have to give up writing the show altogether unless they want to (and I don't think they do). Simply inviting a new co-writer to share the burden would provide some fresh blood. Not that I think Moffat and Gatiss lack ideas with all that rich source material, plenty of stories lef to adapt, but a third writer would provide fresh creative angles.

By the way, what I appreciate the most with series 4, having let it sink in for a few weeks now, is that we were given a full explanation as to why the Holmes brothers are who they are. I remember wondering early on in the show, why are Sherlock so socially difficult and obsessed with crime solving, and why is his older brother even more of a mystery, etc. And most of all, were does their strained relationship come from? I kept expecting an answer and now we have it, for all the crazy effects and annoying plotholes (the missing glass, ffs...). Ultimately, that is why I'm satisfied with series 4.

[–] MagdaFR 7 years ago

And FTR - I find Sherlock to be among the best and most well written shows I've ever seen. The dialogue is witty and layered and you really get a feeling that both writers put a lot of thought into their work.

I agree. It has also a wonderful cast, excellent acting, awesome production and cinematography. All done with a ridiculous budget.

I do think some of the critique directed towards the show is justified, but it's not the script as much as the plot ideas that could have been different (as in less crazy and full of plot holes, lol)...

By the way, what I appreciate the most with series 4, having let it sink in for a few weeks now, is that we were given a full explanation as to why the Holmes brothers are who they are. I remember wondering early on in the show, why are Sherlock so socially difficult and obsessed with crime solving, and why is his older brother even more of a mystery, etc. And most of all, were does their strained relationship come from? I kept expecting an answer and now we have it, for all the crazy effects and annoying plotholes (the missing glass, ffs...). Ultimately, that is why I'm satisfied with series 4.

I still didn't like T6T (compared to how I like other episodes)although I watched it 3 times now. TLD it was so good! What I don't like of TFP is the treatment of Eurus. I liked very, very much the scene of TLD of Sherlock and Eurus walking around. She didn't look the insane woman of TFP. But considering TFP is probably the last episode I think it gave closure to the show in a very good way.

[–] MagdaFR 7 years ago

Moffat wrote A Study in Pink, A Scandal in Belgravia both excellent episodes.

I didn't like much His Last Vow after assassin Mary shooting Sherlock and being forgiven as if nothing had happened.

The best episode of season 4 is The Lying Detective, also by Moffat.