MovieChat Forums > Yi dai zong shi (2013) Discussion > Yip Man never taught Bruce Lee

Yip Man never taught Bruce Lee


Yip Man never taught Bruce Lee. Bruce attended his school for 6 months and trained under his son, Yip Chun. It's an urban legend, perpetuated by Chinese folk, that Yip was Bruce's main teacher. Bruce studied many other styles and Wing Chun was only seen prominently in his first style, Jun Fan Gong Fu, but was lost in the smorgasbord of Way of Intercepting Fist (Jeet Kune Do), which had more boxing than Kung Fu. Chinese folk don't even know who Guru Dan Inosanto is, and if you don't either, then you know next to nothing about Bruce. Of course, they also think he was Chinese, and think he loved Kung Fu and acting. All ridiculously wrong.

This is a movie that has already been done too many times, supporting ignorance and outright lies, and I'm surprised that IMDB keeps listing it fallaciously as "the man who taught Bruce Lee." Do a little research.

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Ip Man at some point did teach Bruce Lee but most of his training was with Master Wong Shun Leung.

Bruce Lee had told some stories about Ip Man, one in particular was when he waited early outside Master Ip's house before his class for the other students to arrive. Upon their arrival Bruce proceeded to tell them Master Ip was unwell so that Bruce could receive personal tuition.

Later as Bruce became more advanced he studied with Wong Shun Leung. Master Wong helped Bruce choreograph 'Enter the Dragon' and you can clearly see him in photos and some documentary footage. Up until his death Lee was keen to finish his Wing Chun training with Master Wong and visited him regularly in HK.

Apparently Stephen Chow Sing Chi was keen on making a movie about Master Wong but unfortunately that has not materialised.



"Be still like a mountain and flow like a great river." - Laozi

The Shadow Warrior

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Yeah, that's another myth I've heard propagated in China. When you say "most" of his training, well, most of 6 months is still not a very long time. Bruce studied so many forms that saying JKD is derivative of Wing Chun is just ridiculous. After his time with Yip Chun, he mostly avoided China, and definitely avoided Gong Fu/Kung Fu in general, which he called a "classical mess". Guru Dan Inosanto actually does not go to China at all, and there are no JKD teachers there. Not one. If they are advertising themselves as such, they are doing so illegally. There is only one guy in China that is really qualified to talk about JKD, and he is leaving in the next month. Then Chinese folk can go back to creating TV shows that focus on his film career, that portray him with a desire to become a big movie star. Bruce hated being an actor, by his own admission in an interview (the same interview in which he noted that he could speak only broken Guangdonghua and no Putonghua at all). He only did those films to show off JKD. I'm not trying to create a new narrative, I'm just going by what's said by the people that knew him and by the man himself. Just because there is a statue of him in China does not make him Chinese. There is also statue of him in Bosnia, and I hope nobody is going to say he was Bosnian.

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I think it's fairly common knowledge that Bruce Lee began studying WC when he was 13 years of age in 1954 and kept training until he left HK in 1959 aged 18 yrs. So that is roughly five years of WC training; I know he did not complete the forms because he had not mastered the weapons.

During the last couple of years of his life Lee began stripping away at his JKD 'concepts' and the practical application began to resemble WC ever so slightly. One example is Lee's stripping away of some 'trapping' elements within JKD due to them at times becoming an extra step between you and the opponent. This is also comparitive of Wong Shun Leung's style of WC which was slightly modified to Ip Man's as it was defined by combat and specifically the Beimo challenges Master Wong had fought in his ealier days. David Peterson, Master Wong's top student has also noted the similarities beween Lee's style and the application of Wong.

Jesse Glover one of Lee's students is quoted: Wong was four years senior (in training) to Bruce in Yip Man’s clan and Bruce studied privately for a year and a half under both him and Yip Man. Glover also wrote that Wong was ...the man most responsible for the development of Bruce Lee, and that In ‘59 Bruce told me that Wong was the greatest fighter in the wing chun style, and that he had successfully defeated all challengers.

When in the U.S. Lee and Wong wrote many letters and some still exist, one of them has Lee writing: Even though I am (technically) a student of Yip Man, in reality, I learned my Kung-fu from you.

Lee offered a role in 'Game of Death to Wong to which he declined but finally did get him involved in 'Enter the Dragon' http://www.wongvingtsun.co.uk/blwsl.jpg

As I mentioned earlier Lee was keen to complete his WC training and begged Ip Man on numerous occasions to allow himself be filmed performing the three empty hand forms so that Lee could in turn show his students. Lee retuned to HK on numerous occasions to meet with Wong, and he has confirmed in transcript which can be found here - BRUCE LEE AND HIS FRIENDSHIP WITH WONG SHUN LEUNG written by Wong Shun Leung - http://www.wongvingtsun.co.uk/wslbl.htm

Guru Dan Inosanto actually does not go to China at all, and there are no JKD teachers there. Not one. If they are advertising themselves as such, they are doing so illegally.
One of the best JKD teachers out there is Tommy Carruthers and he has visited China on many occasions and Beijing to visit the JKD school there at least three times -
http://www.tommycarruthers.com/china-seminar-2010
Also please note the Bruce Lee t-shirts many of the students are wearing in Beijing, and for you to say Lee is not relevant in China at all is a complete joke! Tell me have you been? I can only presume you have not, I have been on a few trips been to Beijing and other places in China and there were T-shirts, posters, books, magazine, DVD, figurines, key-rings you name it, I even have a Bruce Lee set of playing cards which I have never seen anywere else before or since.



"Be still like a mountain and flow like a great river." - Laozi

The Shadow Warrior

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[deleted]

I'm not Chinese by the way...

Bruce didn't "strip away" JKD to reveal Wing Chun.
Indeed I never said he did, but what I did say was that there are similarities. From Lee's Jun Fan phase you can clearly see a disinction to what JKD was when Lee disbanded his schools.

JKD doesn't resemble anything. If it does, it's not JKD.
In theory you are correct, however to quote Lee directly: "“I personally do not believe in the word style. Why? Because, unless there are human beings with three arms and four legs, unless we have another group of human beings that are structually different from us, there can be no different style of fighting.” It's slightly paradoxical, in a sense JKD has no form like WC or other styles but it must have some form in the sense that it resembles an expression of self based on prior conditioning. We hereby define this as a fighting system or philosophy.

There are no Wing Chun trapping drills in JKD, at least not real JKD. If your teacher taught that, he's not a real teacher.

In the following documentary Dan Inosanto discusses the use of Wing Cun trapping techniques, notably the Paak Sao and Lop sao -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpFSwQztptQ You can find the information at 3:30 into the video; I really think people should not talk about something until they fully understand it; for the record YOU can find many videos of Dan using 'WC trapping' skills on youtube and such like Dan has gone on record many times to say JKD was hugely influenced by WC (it would be madness to suggest otherwise) and notable other people have confirmed this such as the aforesaid David Peterson.

Did you know that Bruce could speak very little Cantonese and almost no Mandarin?
It is understandable that Lee spoke no Mandarin but it is ridiculous to suggest that Lee spoke very little Cantonese; here we can listen to Lee speak about his ideas for 'Way of the Dragon' -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ3Xs3-u9hE

I mentioned previously in regard to Lee's many letters to Wong Shun Leung (some of which still exist) and they are written in Cantonese as Master Wong spoke only a little English let alone the ability to converse it in written form.

There isn't much in Wing Chun that resembles a Thai kick,
I always thought the purpose of this kick -
http://chisao.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/wong_kick03.jpg had much the same purpose as the Muay Thai 'front teep' except delivered with the heel; if this connects to an opponent's groin (or chest) then it gives you time and space.

By the way what does Bosnia have to do with this? Yes I know about the statue but none of that has anything to do with the facts that Lee sudied his WC with Master Ip Man and Master Wong Shun Leung.




"Be still like a mountain and flow like a great river." - Laozi

The Shadow Warrior

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The following interview can be found on the Ip Man (Blu Ray) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RnqwqVbHEs



"Be still like a mountain and flow like a great river." - Laozi

The Shadow Warrior

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I've seen this silly thing before, of course.

Yes, of course Wing Chun is part of JKD. No *beep* So is American boxing. So is Muay Thai. Now, so is Brazilian Jiujistu. Is JKD an offshoot of Wing Chun? No, not in the least.

Guru Dan noting that he's studied with 9 Wing Chun guys means very little. He also trained with the Machados, the Dog Brothers, etc. I found it very funny that he says Wing Chun would be good in a bathroom, but kinda useless on a football field (ergo JKD). In a real fight, the kickboxing range and grappling range happens much more often. Same thing with the long kick-range. I started with Taekwondo, but I've almost never had the opportunity to really hang back and set up a full side kick.

It all really boils down to this: the Chinese film industry has tried to create a narrative of Huo Yuanjia teaching Chen Zhen, Chen teaching Yip Man, Yip teaching Bruce Lee. And it's all *beep* It makes them lots and lots of money, but it's all *beep*

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"Huo Yuanjia teaching Chen Zhen, Chen teaching Yip Man, Yip teaching Bruce Lee."

lol, this is the epitomy of all the *beep* you're trying to pan.

absof--kinglutely hilarious.

and Bruce Lee taught the Energizer Bunny, who in turn taught Superman.

ROFLMAO.


--anti-dubber.

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Apparently you didn't read my post properly. I said that this is the narrative Chinese/Hong Kong cinema has tried to create. It's a bunch of *beep* Or you could go read the testimonial above from somebody who trained at the same school as Bruce Lee, and asserted that, no, he did not study one day with Yip Man. Sometimes research does pay off.

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reply to the correct person please.


--anti-dubber.

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We beg to differ on H.K. being a part of China...well, in spirit and ethics we are not. Mr. Lee was, what H.K. shall always be, not of one or the other. Hybrid, fusion, unique. May we always be so.

Oneleg

...bar is closed people stagger out
the pretty, the crippled, and the proud.

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Chinese folk? They also think he was Chinese...All ridiculously wrong?

Zhang,
Why do you bother discussing Bruce Lee to someone who clearly has no love lost for Chinese folk, eh, Chinese people. His use of the singular term "folk" to represent all Chinese is insulting enough. His denial of Bruce Lee having Chinese ancestors is utter nonsense. Ethnically, Bruce Lee was 3/4 Chinese and 1/4 German. He was an American citizen because he was born in America, but his childhood was in Hong Kong, thus, utter, nonsense he didn't speak Cantonese. Such racist attitude towards the Chinese race, and Bruce Lee indirectly, is unacceptable. All other "folk" should be insulted as well.

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First of all, I live in China. I love Chinese folk and use the term "folk" utmost respect. Using the term "people" in this sense is dehumanizing. Don't try the racist card because my Chinese girlfriend will tell you it doesn't work. Saying "the Chinese race" is a very xenophobic way to look at human beings, but I'll let it go.

Second, I never once denied Bruce Lee was of Chinese ancestry, that would be absurd. Why don't you read instead of leaping to fallacious conclusions? Bruce's parents were Chinese, but he was American, born and raised. It is by Bruce's own admission that he could barely speak Cantonese. Lumping him in as Chinese just because his parents were Chinese is like saying there are no Americans except Native Americans/Indians. According to Bruce, he was American. It's as simple as that.

Take a look at the punching system from Way of Intercepting Fist(Jeet Kune Do) and then look at the wimpy punches from Kung Fu/Gong Fu. Sigung Bruce's style wasn't Chinese or American. Anyone who thinks so doesn't understand Bruce or JKD. He used to say something (I can't remember the exact quote) about getting into the boat, away from shore, that you're not free until you are away from any nation.

你是中国人吧,所以你写的英文有的时候友问题。你真的以为我对中国人有麻烦但是我就是想说李小龙地道的生活。他最好的朋友以前是我的师傅所以他说我就说。 好像中国人都也认为一样的,可是还不对。

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rharlow is an idiot. I'll bet he has never even been to china or studied any martial art ever. What a maarrrooon.

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I've been living in China for three years (where I have noticed nearly nobody practicing anything resembling martial arts), and I've studied martial arts (including JKD, Karate, Taekwondo, Muay Thai, Wing Chun, Silat, Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and a few others) for over 25 years under a bunch of different instructors. You were close, though.

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Lies...just cuz you post it doesnt make it true.

"i've studied all martial arts know to man...in 25 years." Im sure. you have 13 black belts and are the most amazing super-geek in the world!!!

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My guess is Rharlow is a little kid on a computer in his mom's basement somewhere.
No way in HELL can you study all those martial arts disciplines in a serious manner in 25 years!
Chuck Norris could not even do that Lol
Reading books and watching Youtube videos does not constitute formal training fool!
I am friends with the families of Dan Inosanto and Taky Kimura. Two of the four
original Lee students that are the only ones certified to teach Bruce's JKD.
Bruce absolutely did have interactions with his Sifu Master Yip though it was sporadic and the majority was taught by Yip's senior instructors the first year. It is well known that Master Yip's school generally refused non pure bred Chinese and Bruce's mother was part Caucasian which alienated him from his fellow students and some instructors. However Master Yip was also an opium addict and needed money so he was definitely involved in Bruce's personal instruction as well as Leung well into 1955 on a strictly private basis. Of course Master Yip passed away not long before Bruce, but Bruce stayed in touch with him and his other teachers including using some of them as fight consultants in "Enter the Dragon" and I believe would have used them in the finishing of "Game of Death" had he lived to continue filming it. To say that Master Yip did not teach young Bruce is ludicrous. Even just chatting with Master Yip and gaining knowledge is still teaching!

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My guess is that you have never spent a day in a real JKD studio, that you have rather watched a bunch of Bruce Lee-themed films out of Hong Kong. Who said I'm 25? Where the hell did you get that number? I think you have mis-read this thread. I'm not the one posting videos and quoting obsolete books.

I never said that Bruce and Yip Man didn't interact, fool, nor that Bruce didn't learn anything from him. Obviously every student will learn from the headmaster of their school at some point. I merely said that Chun was his primary instructor at that school. I'm not going to spend any more time refuting your claims of the obvious. I'll watch this film, too, but I don't buy into the myth propagated here in China that Yip Man created Bruce Lee. I have had to explain to countless folk here that JKD has Gongfu in it, but is not Gongfu. Do you know how many times Guru Dan has come here? Never.

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First let's get one comment out of the way:

Who said I'm 25? Where the hell did you get that number? I think you have mis-read this thread.


He never said you were 25. This is what he said:

No way in HELL can you study all those martial arts disciplines in a serious manner in 25 years!


And as to where he got that number:

I've studied martial arts (including JKD, Karate, Taekwondo, Muay Thai, Wing Chun, Silat, Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and a few others) for over 25 years under a bunch of different instructors.


Now that the "mis-read this thread" bit has been tidied away let's move on. You spend a lot of time replying back to all the evidence laid before you with the equivalent of simply "nope, you're wrong" without linking to any sort of evidential support. Now I would not even begin to assume knowledge on the lives of Bruce, Yip Man or any others involved, but I do assume knowledge on the art of debate. So let me leave you with this saying: "proof or it didn't happen".

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Fine, I'll accept that I made a mistake with the age/years bit. It's still silly for him to say that somebody can't study a number of martial arts in a serious manner over 25 years.

A good part of the reason it's hard to link to evidential support is that there really is very little reliable information online. Most of the real instructors don't spend much time creating websites, and a lot of the guys that do are just jokers, like the legions of instructors teaching people to fight like Bruce, rather than teaching the true precepts of Jeet Kune Do. I don't trust these guys any farther than I can throw them. There are so many guys that say they are close to this family or that family (because they met them once at a seminar) or that they have studied under this or that instructor (because they have a single certificate framed in their studio), but it's pretty hard to find people with real knowledge.

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yo guys bruce lee couldnt speak cantonese hahahahahha omg he speaks english with cantonese emphasis because......just because hahahhahaha....i think i heard it all man hahaha


here's bruce lee not speaking his first language at 9 years old hahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zpsqp7xSYQ

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I have no idea where you got the idea that Bruce Lee spoke very little Cantonese.he is a native Cantonese speaker and his Chinese is far more fluent than his English. Why do you also assert that you know so much about his martial arts training yet you never even mentioned the likes of Jhoon Rhee? Bruce Lee's claim to fame in hk films was his triple kicks on screen, which he often gave credit to his tkd training with Jhoon Rhee

If you want to be a troll successfully, at least do some research instead of just ranting nonsense like an idiot.

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WTF is this BS.
The OP didn't watch the Undubbed Bruce Lee's Films. He speaks Cantonese in them. That was his freaking voice.
He grew up in Hong Kong. Maybe he consider himself more Hong Kongese than Chinese. That's understandable.
What the heck does he speak to his friends and family in HK. They didn't speak English at home. Maybe Toi Shan Cantonese.
If you're in doubt, go to Hong Kong and ask his brother and sisters.

Lee was being modest when he said he spoke broken Cantonese.
There is proper Cantonese which is spoken in Canton if you want to be picky about it.

As for the main topic that Yip Man never taught Lee. It is very common practice in Schools for the senior students teaching the other students. Yip Mun was Bruce Lee's master and it's absurd to say they never interacted.

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I posted this already two years ago, but since this is a similar thread, here it is again. I am a former student of Wong Shun Leung and the following he told me so himself, around 1993 or so.

Yip Chun has never been a Wing Chun master of any significance. He is 'the son of' that's all. And he tries to make some easy money from this position by lending his name to whatever projects. Fair enough.

Dan Inosanto took up Wing Chun in New York (private lessons with Moo Yat) in order to better understand JKD, of which he was the inheritor after Bruce Lee died, leaving behind a system still in development. Since JKD is mostly Wing Chun, this is very understandable.

quote old message ------------
When Bruce Lee showed up at YM's training facilities in Hong Kong to learn Wing Chun, Yip Man was already withdrawing from active teaching and left most of it to his assistants. He also did not like Bruce Lee as he found him to be too western in appearance [rock'n roll hairdo, jeans i.e.] and behavior, and being a traditional Chinese he was very conservative.
Bruce Lee was in fact trained by Wong Shun Leung [Yip Man's chief assistant, who died 1997]. To pay tribute to WSL he later showed up in a cameo role in one of BL's movies.
Also, check this: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1551928/

Up to the last months of his life Bruce Lee kept in touch with his former teacher.

I myself had the pleasure to be trained for some time by WSL [early nineties] and he was full of anecdotes and interesting stories. One was about Bruce Lee's habit to take siesta's in the afternoon. On his door there would be a note, reading:'Do not disturb. Training in progress'. Another one: eager to get maximum attention from his teacher, he would go to WSL's house early and wait in front of the door. When the other students showed up, he told them the master was sick and they left. Result: private tuition for Bruce Lee!!

The pictures that are circulating showing Bruce Lee with Yip Man performing Chi Sao were taken during the sixties, when the aging Yip Man was under the influence of the very business-minded Leung Ting. Leung Ting, [still running the largest Wing Chun [Wing Tsun] organization in the world, since the seventies] figured out already then, while training himself with Yip Man, that linking an up-and-coming moviestar's name to his kung fu style could only be beneficial for the future, marketing-wise.

He was right. But Bruce Lee was NEVER taught directly by Yip Man.

Actually, his Wing Chun was sloppy, judging from the existing 8mm footage that can be found on the net where he is seen performing the Siu Nim Tao. According to Wong Shun Leung, Bruce Lee was very impatient, he wanted to learn something new every day. He was also very talented, though, so he was able to base his own style [Jeet Kune Do] for 90% on Wing Chun and it does make perfect sense.

Just for background, all this info - the movie is not a documentary I guess... so we can expect artistic liberties.

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Thanks so much for your response. It's a shame that this thread descended into such vitriol; it's refreshing then to get such an informed and honest response. I've never heard that it was Leung, I'd heard it was Chun-- but it sounds like you are the man to believe. My main quibble is with all of these films that are produced here in China that tout Yip Man basically as where all of Bruce Lee's skills came from. Ask any Chinese citizen and that is what they will tell you. They don't like to talk about the bit where Bruce's German heritage got him shunned by many of his peers in the Wing Chun community.

I have to say, by the way, what a great experience it must have been for you to train with such a master.

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i would also like to correct you on bruce lee not being good in cantonese. please watch all of bruce's movies when he was a kid right up to his teenage years before he left for US. he was speaking cantonese fluently in all of them.

hongkong consider bruce as their true son. not china. it was only after hongkong was returned to china that the mainland chinese slowly warm up to bruce. it was also hongkong which gave bruce his big break in 'the big boss' when hollywood played him out by putting david carradine instead of him in the kung-fu series.

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"Yu Chenghui played Yip Man in The Legend of Bruce Lee,[15] a 2008 Chinese television series based on the life story of Bruce Lee, who was one of Yip's students."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yip_Man

http://www.earthlyissues.com/images/Bruce_lee_and_Ip_Man2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iS16pyt0bik/TCevK9fmVcI/AAAAAAAAAjU/q-LjSCZ- uQQ/s1600/bruce-lee-yip-man+wing+chun+dummy+fighting.jpg

_______________I GOT NOTHING_______________

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Didn't anybody ever teach you not to cite Wikipedia as a reputable source? Those photos of Bruce and Yip was taken years later, when Bruce returned to Hong Kong, as a movie star. Yip's business manager thought it would be good for marketing to take a few photos with Bruce and advertise that he had trained at their school. He had not, however, spent one day actually training with Yip himself, but instead with one of his assistants at the time.

By the way, you probably haven't spent that much time here in China, because you would know that all of those TV shows are complete BS. The Chinese narrative of Bruce Lee has been spun over the last few decades into something so twisted that there's nothing resembling the real story in there.

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I didnt see your reply until now.

http://www.kwokwingchun.com/about-wing-chun/ip-mans-wing-chun/ip-mans-biography/

this is the source cited on wikipedia you twat. Didnt anyone ever tell you how to use wiki?
_______________I GOT NOTHING_______________

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Maybe this movie is about the Marvel character of The Grandmaster ... Elder of the Universe and whatnot?

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