Why?


I would LOVE this show if they didn't bring evolution into it. Why is it you can't talk about dinosaurs without talking about evolution?

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Because evolution is a scientific fact. Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Really.

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Seriously. What, you want an episode where they come out of the Time Tunnel in Jerusalem, and the pteranadons get to hang with Jesus for a day? Talking about dinosaurs WITHOUT mentioning evolution is like talking about strip clubs without talking about titties.

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Evolution is not a scientific fact, it's a scientific theory.
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It's a fact and a theory. Just like gravity.

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Much in biology is rather hard to prove. Evolution is a theory regarding something long gone, and is biology at its worst. Unlike other pure sciences, there is no concrete evidence to go on. Gravity is provable to anyone just because it is part of one's daily life. There is no question it is happening. Meanwhile, biologists tell us all that chromosomes cannot be added or deleted from a species; thus negating the idea that species can change into another. Yet they seem to think that somehow chromosome sets grew or shrank in size to form new species from other older ones.

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You are wrong about everything you wrote about.

"Evolution is a theory regarding something long gone..."

Evolution is happening today, it is not long gone.

"...and is biology at its worst."

Evolution is the cornerstone of modern biology, without it, there would be nothing else.

"Unlike other pure sciences, there is no concrete evidence to go on."

The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. DNA was predicted from the theory of evolution years before it was discovered. We can go back and find deactivated DNA strands in our DNA that match those in closely related species.

"Gravity is provable to anyone just because it is part of one's daily life. There is no question it is happening."

Gravity is just a theory, and despite the formula being centuries old, we still don't know how it works.

"Meanwhile, biologists tell us all that chromosomes cannot be added or deleted from a species..."

Really? Where did you get this?

"...thus negating the idea that species can change into another."

You can have speciation without adding or deleting a chromosome.

"Yet they seem to think that somehow chromosome sets grew or shrank in size to form new species from other older ones."

They have the evidence that it happened and they understand the mechanism that would cause it to happen.

100% wrong.

Congratulations. It takes skill to be completely wrong about a subject and still talk about it.

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"Evolution is happening today, it is not long gone."

Don't be a smart-ass. You know what I mean. Animals & plants that are long gone.

"Evolution is the cornerstone of modern biology, without it, there would be nothing else."

Really? I thought current living things are the cornerstone. People have been studying anatomy and biological systems within creatures for centuries on - long before there was much realization anything existed long ago that does not now. Seems to me we're able to understand how bodies work without having had knowledge of extinct species.

"Gravity is just a theory, and despite the formula being centuries old, we still don't know how it works."

We don't have to know how it works. WE KNOW IT *DOES*. We can't avoid experiencing it.

"Really? Where did you get this?"

I'm quite positive I remember this from basic biology in high school. Tell me how it isn't so. Seriously.

"You can have speciation without adding or deleting a chromosome."

I didn't say THAT couldn't happen. I'm doubting the whole idea of evolving from 23 sets to 15, e.g.

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Me: "Evolution is happening today, it is not long gone."

You: "Don't be a smart-ass. You know what I mean. Animals & plants that are long gone."

To quote you...

"We don't have to know how it works. WE KNOW IT *DOES*. We can't avoid experiencing it."

We see evolution happening today. We know it exists. We can't deny it. Yet some people want to deny it happened in the past. We have a deeper understanding of evolution than we do of gravity, but no one attacks the teaching of gravity.

The only difference I can see between the two is religion. Some religious people think if evolution is true, their god is false.

Me: "Evolution is the cornerstone of modern biology, without it, there would be nothing else."

You: "Really? I thought current living things are the cornerstone."

Our understanding of living things is based on our understanding of evolution. It is so pervasive that you can't study biology without evolution. If you have an illness, one of the first things a doctor will do is ask you for a family history. They wouldn't care if it weren't for our understanding of evolution.

You: "I'm quite positive I remember this from basic biology in high school. Tell me how it isn't so. Seriously."

You want me to describe complex, advanced biology to you, when you don't even know evolution's importance in the field? That would be like talking about calculus with someone who hasn't grasped algebra.

Short answer... It is possible during Meiosis for chromosomes to tear or fuse. As long as it happens during a portion of the junk DNA, the organism should still be viable.

It doesn't happen often, but with millions of organisms and thousands and thousands of generations, it will eventually happen.

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"Short answer... It is possible during Meiosis for chromosomes to tear or fuse. As long as it happens during a portion of the junk DNA, the organism should still be viable."

You are exactly right, in fact - 'junk' DNA holds the key to evolution in transomes.

I actually have an advanced degree in molecular biology. And I'm a christian.

So suck it. Can't we all just get along? We are arguing evolution on a board for a cartoon that my 3 year old watches.



I don't wanna kill you, but I will cuz I don't like you much anyways - fool

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The talking about evolution doesn't bother me, it's the surety by which they make they claims, ie they should say "I think" or "we think" before talking about nearly anything about dinosaurs.
And before you atheists get up in arms, yes, I say I believe before I make any religious statements.
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You are not alone among strangers, a way has been chosen.

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Lol, nice baited question. Why don't you go troll the Battlefield Earth messageboard and whine about Lord Xenu...

Ozpunk
"No Murray its not a real hawk, just life-like hawk sounds."

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actually it is officially a fact since a couple of years now.
its just called the evolution "theory" because of religious fanatics



Friday Night Lights, watched 4 seasons in 1 week, where's my life?

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darwin's "theory" of evolution has survived, as is for over 150 years now.

even he himself knew that his theory wasin't complete because although he knew what happens during evolution (natural selection), what changes are involved in an animal's evolution such as changes in body shape, coloring changes for camoflague and so forth, he didn't know what factors causes these changes.

genetics wasn't discovered until about 40 years after darwin wrote 'On the origin of species by natural selection and DNA wasn't discovered until the 1950s, some 90 years after he wrote the book. but the fact is that each new discovery of the mystery of life re-enforces Darwin's theory instead of refutes it

the problem that creation presents is there is no way to substaniate it scientifically unlike evolution, it requires a "leap of faith" to believe it exists

the problem is that it took over a century after darwin wrote the book to be accepted in most schools and creationist are still trying to establish creationism as scientific fact under the new name of "intelligent design" a name which was invented to get around the law of "division of church and state"

Unless creationists find SOME way to prove that creation is scientificaly proveable in lab conditions, and these results are repeatable like evolution is, it will never be more than religous dogma was, just like it was once religous dogma that the earth was flat and if you sail far enough away from land, you'll fall of the edge

Ich bin ein berliner, I am a jelly doughnut, JFK june 26, 1963
if you don't like this sig, tough

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There is a difference between macro and micro evolution. Micro evolution has been proven. Micro-evolution is what Darwin wrote about and what doesn't require faith. Natural selection is micro-evolution.
Macro-evolution has not been proven and is basically impossible due to the limitations of DNA, it requires a "leap of faith" and has never been proven.
A few, at least two and at most five, early Christian fathers denied the sphericity of earth by mistakenly taking passages such as Ps. 104:2-3 as geographical rather than metaphorical statements. No one else in the religious world thought the Earth was flat. Even Greeks and Romans knew the Earth was round.
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I do believe in macro evolution

this can be expressed in the evolution of mammals from the reptiles that lived before the dinosaurs in the late permian era 250mya with the therapsids like diictodon. These evolved into proto mammals from the late triassic, the synapsids like cynodonts, a proto mammal that paleontolgists believe, may have nursed there young with milk

from these, true mammals or possibly, marsupials like did evolved in the Cretaceous like didelphodons or cimolestes

dinosaurs evolved into birds

mammals evolved from mouse like animals in the mezozoic to to animals today that range from mice to blue whales

fish evolved from Cephalaspis 418 mya to Dunkleosteus 318 mya to Leedsichthys 155 mya to the fish of today

if not for macro evolution, how could an ancestor of a horse the size of a house cat go into the water, looking for food and evolve into something over 100 feet long and weigh nearly 200 tons, as well as all other ceteceans

I believe that Darwin didn't understand macro evolution in 1860, because he didn't the process of evolution, genetics was discovered some 40 years after "on the origin of species by nature selection" was written, some 25 years after his death and DNA and its mutation weren't discovered until the 1950s

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some religons or cultures DID come up with the theory of a round earth, some egyptians did abot 2000 years ago, I know but some cultures flatly denied it

the ancient egyptians and indians believed that the flat earth that rested on top of giant animal's backs, elephants for india and turtles (I believe) for the egyptians

if early christians believed that the earth was round, by the middle ages, it was flat again. it wasn't considered round until the voyages of columbus and magellen



Ich bin ein berliner, I am a jelly doughnut, JFK june 26, 1963
if you don't like this sig, tough

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I know this thread is derailing, but here's just a quick note on Columbus (since I am a professional historian):

Most educated people during the 1400-1500's did, in fact, know that the earth was round. The big debate among early proponents of westward exploration wasn't whether or not they'd fall off the edge of a flat earth, but the size of the earth itself.

While several ancient civilizations estimated the circumference of the earth to near perfection, the navigators of Columbus' time were still relatively undecided about how big the earth actually was. Columbus believed the earth's circumference to be much smaller than most other navigators and scholars (and he was wrong).

The Americas were his saving grace. If there had been no landmass between Europe and Eastern Asia, Columbus' mistaken distances would've cost him his life and the lives of his men.



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which is why he thought that tha caribbean was the east indies

did he think that the earth was half the size it actually was?

Ich bin ein berliner, I am a jelly doughnut, JFK june 26, 1963
if you don't like this sig, tough

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Exactly right, mythbustfan! As far as *how* much smaller he thought the earth was, I'm not sure. Half the size seems about right considering the conclusions he drew upon his landfall in the Americas.

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I am a Christian and I believe in evoloution and most modern science. In fact, as science progresses it does more to prove the ideas and history of Christianity. To me science is the our feeble attempt to understand how God created the Earth and its inhabitants as well as all of the natural orders put in place. You can pretty much look at anything in science and say "That is how God did (or does) that." At least in terms we can understand.

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Yes, I too am a Christian and I don't seen any need for protests against Dinosaur Train. In fact, I have noticed very few references to evolutionary processes. For that matter, on the spur of the moment I can't say that I can recall for sure a single one. I assume that the conductor has probably at some point said that some dinosaur "evolved this feature and it helps them to survive by......." but I can't give an example from memory.

For that reason, I would be curious to hear what specific statements in Dinosaur Train have upset my anti-evolution Christian brethren. Or are they simply unhappy that there IS an emphasis on various time periods: Cretaceous, Jurassic, etc. ???

Technically, I suppose someone could accept the time periods as factually based on the relative positioning in the geologic strata (older fossils appear below newer fossils) but this would hold true even if one were to ignore the various estimates in millions of years for the various species. So I will ask: Is that what is irritating the anti-evolution commenters here?

Frankly, if the Dinosaur Train producers were to avoid the "millions of years" evidence and pretend that all of the creatures (and humans) lived at the same time, that would do a grave disservice to young people. Indeed, I wish I had learned more of such things at an early age when the brain is best able to retain them! In fact, I wish they would use their clever song writing skills to help viewers memorize ALL of the various eras! I learned them years ago in college but they vaporized from my brain long ago. So I wish I knew a catchy song that would help me know how to relate the Ordovician properly in comparison to the Paleozoic Era.

After all: I hope even the evolution opponents realize that once their children get in college and take a biology or geology course, they are probably going to have to KNOW all of the geologic ages in their proper order--- whether they "believe in them" or not! Knowledge is knowledge.

Of course, once they take a course where they actually LEARN the many categories of voluminous evidence for The Theory of Evolution [including the alleged "macroevolution" which opponents deny], they will realize that there is no reason to deny reality. My study of the Hebrew text of Genesis convinced me that there is denial of evolution there in any case---and Genesis certainly doesn't deny billions of years.

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