Vous vs tu?


I streamed this film via Netflix this evening and I enjoyed it! I speak a little French but don't consider myself fluent so the subtitles helped.

One thing I found odd was Christine saying to Isabelle "Je vous aime" (of course she didn't mean it). Could a native French speaker explain why she wouldn't have used the informal "Je t'aime"? Was she using the formal "vous" because she was Isabelle's boss?

We don't have this distinction in English now because we only have the formal "you" and haven't used the informal "thou" for 300 years - unless you count the Quakers, of course.

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I am not a native French speaker but here goes: The French are hesitant to move to a familiar tu, particularly in business situations such as this. In this scene there is particular ambiguity because "je vous aime" is ostensibly meant closer to a "liking" sense although in an earlier scene there is almost a sexual innuendo in the relationship.

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That is absolutely correct. In a professional relationship, it would be very strange to use the "tu" form even though the women are presented in a very intimate and close situation in the beginning and are using the first names. The French are still quite status conscious.

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As someone who has some French, I wondered this too. Thanks to the repliers. I think it's great that the convention of using the "vous" form in the business situation suggests that the relationship is non-familial and therefore not binding.

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Tu is a more casual greeting whereas vous is more formal.

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[deleted]

hi post-meridian, first of all, thank you for having some interest in our really strange and, sometimes, very disturbing language :)
In this situation, the use of "vous" instead of "tu" is really not business related as you can imagine as ppl are talking about love. And we're talking about a tiny/important nuance in language.
Tiny, because you can't be wrong if you say "je t'aime" to someone (hum, ok you can be wrong but it' because he or she is just a huge disappointment, it's not language related :) )
But it can be an important difference because, sometimes, it doesn't fit well with what you really feel...in french :)
It's just a cultural and historical difference.
As a french, I just would like to try to help you to understand the meaning of it, even if I'm pretty sure that my english is worse than your french.
There is a regular, popular and well, common way to say to someone you love him/her : "je t'aime".
Here, the use of "Je vous aime" is more related to our history, I'm talking about our old poetry and litterature. "Before" people were used to used the "vous" for their parents, their husbands or wifes or anyone which was consider above them in the society or strangers.
So, here, you can consider it as a kind of statement, like "Kelly, I love you" = "Kelly, je t'aime" or "Kelly Chapman I love you" = "Kelly Chapman, je vous aime".
The use of "vous" in the film, makes the Kristin Scott Thomas Character aware of her own weakness in front of someone that is supposed to be "below" her in the society. In this scene, it's clearly a statment "I love you/je vous aime" creates the subtext :"I'm showing you how vulnerable I feel in front of you even if you're my subordinate so, now tell me what you think." If her character would have say "je t'aime" in this sequence, she wouldn't have involved so much things... in french.
but as I said, it's pretty hard to get this subtle difference unless you're french. It's not a big deal if you can't get the difference and if you have to say it, one day, just say "Je t'aime", you can't be wrong. Even if you're wrong on the personn, you can't be wrong to love :)

PS : please forgive my lousy english and if you have any question please feel free to ask, I'll do my best to make you understand how messy we are :)

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Salut Feu! Thank you for your detailed explanation. It's difficult for an English speaker to grasp the subtleties of the two different forms "vous" and "tu". When I was in Paris years ago, speaking French in France for the first time, I would always use the "vous" form. I thought it would seem too pushy or impolite if I used "tu" when first meeting people. Only after they would start calling me by my first name (Michel) would I use the "tu" form. Once they would use "tu" with me I felt comfortable using the same with them. But that means learning two different verb conjugations and twice the work ;^). Clearly there is a nuance to each form that adds complexity to the language.

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That's really interesting, thanks. It's said as in the way of respect - false respect probably from Christine so Isabelle will continue to do her work for her!

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I am bilingual and that scene is extremely important in revealing Christine's character. Of course she uses "vous" rather than "tu"--but it's not about being older, or Isabelle's boss, it's about her shifting moods and keeping people off balance. Watch the scene carefully: she is inappropriate, then backs off, she gives Isabelle the scarf, then almost ignores her, and this dance of closeness and distance keeps going on. She must say "Je vous aime" because she has to use the formality to distance herself from the intimacy of the emotion she's expressing. It's brilliant, and yes, subtle, but not really very complicated, and certainly not as complicated as a French speaker below would have it. There was nothing odd about it to me--I saw her as supremely powerful and manipulative, criticizing at one point by calling Isabelle obsessive ("maniaque") and gifting her with an expensive scarf at another.

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Thanks for that explanation, raphael.

My French is very limited, but that scene, and the phrase "je vous aime", made me prick up my ears. In my limited understanding, it seemed strange -- she's saying a quite intimate thing, but with a certain distance imposed on the phrase. I understand the points made in this thread about a certain reserve in the language to moving to the "tu" form too quickly, but here it seemed very deliberate that she said "vous". Christine clearly could have been more familiar with Isabelle if she'd wanted to, so the fact that she wasn't was a deliberate choice.

It struck me in a manner similar to when she showed the video of Isabelle's crash in the parking garage to the gathering, and then said, "Where's your sense of humour?" -- her intent was clearly different from her words. Very chilling.

I really enjoyed the dialogue in this film -- it was so succinct, but layered. (And yes, I needed the subtitles often, so no doubt I missed a lot of subtlety!)



You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

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