by rsheppard52;
"A few hours ago, your womb was cut open while you were conscious, ... and it was stapled up again."
It is mentioned in "Prometheus" that the Medpod is one of the most advanced medical devices in the world.
* From the film;
Shaw: Charlie, look. Its a Medpod. They only made a dozen of these.
Medpod: Please verbally state the nature of your injury.
Vickers: Ms. Shaw. Please don't touch that. Its a very expense piece of machinery.
Shaw: It does bypass surgery. What do you need it for?
A machine that can do complex heart surgery (bypass procedures) will be able to close up tissue and internal organs which have been cut open otherwise, the machine could not do the surgery.
And the film clearly states that the Medpod can do internal organ surgery.
"Then you find a (highly convenient and barely believeable) way of hijacking another alien spaceship"
What you have missed is that the film states that David can read Engineer writing, can understand Engineer speech, can figure out from Engineer equipment what they were doing in the past and as a result of all of that has figured out how to fly an Engineer ship.
From the film;
Shaw: David, please tell me you can read that.
David: Perhaps...
Shaw: What are you doing, David?
David: I'm attempting to open the door.
David: A superior species, no doubt. There are hyper sleep chambers.
David: ...it's fairly evident they were in the process of leaving...
Elizabeth Shaw: Leaving to go where?
David: Earth.
Elizabeth Shaw: Why?
David: Sometimes to create, one must first destroy.
Weyland: Sure he's alive?
David: Absolutely.
Weyland: And you can speak to him?
David: I believe I can.
David: Its not the only ship. There are many others. I can operate them...
Shaw: You said you can understand the navigation? Use their maps?
David: Yes, of course.
by rsheppard52;
"the ship could be used in some way to inform the authorities of protecting against, or even avenging said aliens if they were to attack earth."
The weakness to this argument is the Alien franchise itself.
Repeatedly in the franchise the authorities do not act effectively to protect others from the dangerous aliens created by the Engineers.
In fact some even try to smuggle dangerous aliens to labs which then leads to the aliens getting out of control.
- The story of "Alien", "Aliens", the end of "Alien 3" and "Alien 4" are based on authorities being taking huge risks with the aliens.
* The closest example to Shaw's choice was what happened to Ripley in the beginning of "Aliens". She explained in detail about the xenomorphs and the authorities did not believe her story. The authorities did not evacuate LV-426.
Instead the mission back to LV-426 was taken over by corrupt officials of the Weyland / Yutani company including Burke.
- This problem of dangerous risk taking did not happen over night in the world of the Alien franchise. It is central to the powerful groups of this fictional world.
* A person who would understand this dangerous risk taking is Shaw.
1. Shaw wanted to run a legitimate scientific expedition.
In the beginning David sabotaged it. Why? Because David was a puppet of Weyland, the head of one of the most powerful space exploration companies. And Weyland didn't care about science. He pushed David to disobey procedures and do something drastic like poison Holloway.
2. Vickers hired two scientists who had no idea that the expedition was about looking for intelligent space aliens.
3. Weyland comes out of stasis and completely hijacked the expedition showing that he was completely selfish and did not care a bit for the safety of the crew.
* Considering that; what was Shaw to do?
She had concluded that going back to earth with its corruption was not the best decision.
She understood that the Engineers had been helpful to humans in the past but that at least some of them had changed their minds about humanity and wanted to destroy/transform life on earth.
- Why? It was a mystery. And as a scientist she wanted to go to the Engineer home world and talk to them about these questions.
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈
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kerryedavis
8 years ago
She had concluded that going back to earth with its corruption was not the best decision.
What's your evidence for that?
The main reason I saw for Shaw realizing she/they couldn't go back to Earth, using the Prometheus, was that the (I still don't think they really are the) "Engineer" was heading there with a ship-load of xenomorph goo, and the only way to stop him/it was to use their ship as a missile/weapon.
If they'd had a spare Prometheus, and didn't seem to have the option of taking IT to the (I think actual) Engineer's homeworld, I think she would have gone back to Earth.
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BB-15
8 years ago
kerry; I also like some of this line of reasoning you brought up and have used it before on this Board.
That is;
1. The Prometheus ship was destroyed.
2. What was left were Engineer ships loaded with black good canisters.
Part of Shaw's thinking could be that taking an Engineer ship loaded with extreme bio weapons back to earth would be too dangerous.
- Then in previous discussions comes the issue of why it would be too dangerous to bring an Engineer ship to earth.
And that would then transition to the arguments which I made in my previous comment about corruption in the world of the Alien franchise.
* Which brings me to this; once negativity is put aside, there are lots of ways to interpret / speculate about this film which can be interesting imo.
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈
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kerryedavis
8 years ago
At that point, at the point in the timeline for Prometheus, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that the company would want the goo for their bioweapons division. I don't recall any such thing even being mentioned, unlike in Alien/2/3/4. It seems far more likely that she just didn't want to risk bringing any of it to Earth in case it ACCIDENTALLY got loose as seemed to have happened on LV-223.
Given that, I think she would have found a ship that hadn't been loaded already, or would have had David use his greater physical strength and likely immunity, to unload it all before they took off. Even if it might have taken him a long time, Shaw could have gone into cryosleep first while David unloaded the goo.
It would seem likely though, if the humanoids planned to go somewhere else after destroying all life on Earth and perhaps elsewhere too, they would have had at least one ship that wasn't loaded with goo.
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BB-15
8 years ago
by kerryedavis;
"Given that, I think she would have found a ship that hadn't been loaded already, or would have had David use his greater physical strength and likely immunity, to unload it all before they took off. Even if it might have taken him a long time, Shaw could have gone into cryosleep first while David unloaded the goo."
Part of the fun with a complex movie like "Prometheus" is that the viewer can speculate about all sorts of possible scenarios.
- An Engineer ship is found with no black goo canisters.
- David is repaired on LV-223.
- David agrees to unload a large number of black goo canisters from an Engineer ship while Shaw is in stasis.
Interesting speculations.
"At that point, at the point in the timeline for Prometheus, there doesn't seem to be any evidence that the company would want the goo for their bioweapons division. I don't recall any such thing even being mentioned, unlike in Alien/2/3/4."
You are being too narrow and specific.
I'm not talking about the bioweapons division.
I am referring to the world of the Alien franchise which Shaw lives in.
- She could reasonably conclude that if she went back to earth, and said that Weyland had sabotaged the mission, that the Weyland corporation would fight her in court and deny any wrong doing to avoid law suits.
The result would be similar to the committee in the beginning of "Aliens" who did not believe Ripley.
I'm not saying that Shaw saw "Aliens". I'm saying that Shaw could see the lack of effective action in dealing with the Engineer creations.
- Shaw could see that the Weyland corporation was corrupt from the top with Weyland. She could reasonably assume that other managers in the company were also corrupt.
- Why take an Engineer ship loaded with alien bio weapons back to earth with authorities like that.
I admit I'm speculating but it is based on what happens in "Prometheus" and the later films.
Anyway again, I find it fun to speculate with a movie like this.
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈
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sevenlilxenos
8 years ago
I've always wondered, if the black goo can dissolve a biological entity completely when consumed in quantity (sacrifice SJ), change a biological entity simply by contact (worm to Hammerpede and Fifield to zombie) and finally start the process of creating a new life form (Holloway-Shaw-Cuddles) is it not at least POSSIBLE among all these other bizarre capabilities it could also assist in the healing process of a biological entity which was an incubator for a black goo generated creature like Shaw was .
The last thing we see occur immediately prior to Shaw being stapled up was Cuddles afterbirth soaking Shaw's surgically opened womb area. Look how quickly Cuddles grew to be a Trilobite. Couldn't the same DNA magic used to allow Cuddles to grow so quickly also allow Shaw to heal so quickly. There HAD to be more going on than pain meds and adrenaline to allow Shaw to run and jump the way she did .
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kerryedavis
8 years ago
But wouldn't that kind of fan fiction also end up causing Shaw to mutate too? Or conceive another trilobite, or something? Rather than simply - and only - healing her.
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sevenlilxenos
8 years ago
Yo KD,
Wormy/Fifield both came in external contact with the black goo and became much, much stronger.
Obviously the black goo changes things in biological life forms prolly at the cellular level.
Shaw had internal contact with a watered down drop of goo as Holloway got the brunt of it.
Could that not make her insides stronger (ie healed) just as Wormy and Butthead became stronger?
Is that not consistent with what we actually saw occur to others?
Shaw did not mutate as she only had sex with Holloway who only consumed 1 drop before mutating. In other words, Shaw had a watered down version of the black goo.
Perhaps, and this is pure speculation at this point, Shaw will exhibit other changes later on. I'm not worried about her lack of mutation nullifying the potential growing stronger/healing properties of the watered down drop of black goo she had inside of her.
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BB-15
8 years ago
by sevenlilxenos;
"There HAD to be more going on than pain meds and adrenaline to allow Shaw to run and jump the way she did "
Again, imo this points to the Medpod. The movie says it can do bypass surgery (I assume heart surgery).
In that procedure blood vessels are cut from one area of the body and then damaged arteries are removed.
Then the cut blood vessels replace the sections of the removed arteries.
* The transferred blood vessels are connected to the cut arteries with very strong stitches or sutures.
See any sewing done in the Medpod scene? No.
The Medpod must have a way to connect tissue very strongly without sewing stitches.
It has to have some kind of science fiction technology to repair massive internal damage.
That SF tech imo is what allowed Shaw to run after the procedure.
As for squid juice? Speculation is cool with "Prometheus" but it's still speculation not clearly tied to the film.
My example comes from what the film says that the Medpod can do.
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈
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sevenlilxenos
8 years ago
Does not the film show the black goo facilitating various types of change to biological entities at the DNA/genetic level in which it has had some type of contact with?
Isn't healing somewhat along the lines of creation and more importantly to growth?
I'm not saying that is what happened but it simply appears to me to be a reasonable possibility given what we have seen the goo do in addition to the advanced med tech of the Pauling med pod.
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BB-15
8 years ago
by sevenlilxenos;
"Does not the film show the black goo facilitating various types of change to biological entities at the DNA/genetic level in which it has had some type of contact with?
Isn't healing somewhat along the lines of creation and more importantly to growth?"
I know you are speculating about different possibilities.
Could the Engineers with their advanced bio tech create a liquid which could quickly heal wounds / injuries?
Certainly.
Is that what I think happened with the Medpod? No. As I've explained.
But that's just my view.
What you are doing is examining what the Engineers could possibly do.
And I think that's fun to consider in terms of what super advanced beings are capable of in science fiction.
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈
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sevenlilxenos
8 years ago
In A4, Ripley Clone #8 still had some Xeno DNA in her after having a Xeno queen surgically removed.
Her (less than full Xeno power) acid blood came in handy at times melting things.
According to the scientists, during the incubation process Ripley and the baby queen Xeno mixed DNA so Ripley now had some alien in her. I would argue something similar occurred to Shaw while incubating Cuddles.
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BB-15
8 years ago
To sevenlilxenos; Kubrick said this about the ultimate extent of the abilities of intelligent space aliens.
Their potentialities would be limitless and their intelligence ungraspable by humans.
There are few science fiction movies which stretch space alien technology enough so that it reaches the limits of what humans can comprehend or imagine.
- "2001" of course is one example.
- Tarkovsky's "Solaris" is another one.
- The infection / assimilation idea from the short story "Who Goes There" which led to Carpenter's "The Thing" is a challenge to comprehend in terms of actual science.
"Prometheus" takes "The Thing" concept some steps further.
* The Engineers create a substance which can quickly dismantle a body and then change its DNA to possibly a virus which can infect the life on a world and guide a planet's biological evolution.
- An Engineer substance can transform a human being into a mindless monster which is very hard to kill.
The same substance changes a worm into an acid blood snake with extraordinary strength.
And if this substance infects human sperm, it can transform a woman's egg into a creature which becomes the alien squid.
You've written;
Couldn't the same DNA magic used to allow Cuddles to grow so quickly also allow Shaw to heal so quickly.
Considering the Engineer biotechnology, it's possible.
Isn't healing somewhat along the lines of creation and more importantly to growth?
Yes.
"Ripley and the baby queen Xeno mixed DNA so Ripley now had some alien in her. I would argue something similar occurred to Shaw while incubating Cuddles."
Fine. It's an argument that has this behind it, the viewer does not know the full extent of what the Engineers can do on terms of biotech.
The Engineers seem to be the masters of very rapid DNA manipulation and transformation. Their tech includes almost instant cell growth.
Could an Engineer substance from the squid have healed all of Shaw's injuries?
Sure.
When the space aliens being depicted are this advanced, then their capabilities can reach the limits of human imagination.
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈
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sevenlilxenos
8 years ago
Sounds like we are somewhat on the same page BB other than:
You want to credit the Pauling Med Pod
I want to credit the black goo and what we have actually seen it do.
In 2089 we humans in the Alien/Prometheus universe have FTL. We also have the tech for cryo and creating David so its possible its the med pod which allows Shaw to instantly heal inside.
However, IF SJ's created us, then their tech and creations are still far beyond ours IMHO.
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Maugeh
8 years ago
Hi! I just want to add, You remember the snake which attacked fifield and the other guy who's name i dont remember now? The snake got cut and it's hear grew back immediately, so they mos def have recovering aspects. So what im saying that Shaw could have gotten cellular-stage recovering abilities from having sex with holloway, i may be reaching here, but you never know. :)
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Flamboyant_Little_Devil
8 years ago
"Reaching"? naaahhhh
You're more advanced than a cockroach, ever tried explaining yourself to one of them?
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sevenlilxenos
8 years ago
Ironic, dude says he was reaching with the snake but didn't recall Milborn's name.
Perhaps a fellow biologist.
FWIW, we have never seen any Xeno type creature rejuvenate, so I'm pretty sure that was just a worm thang. Sort of like in A3 where dog-xeno ran on all fours.
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!!!deleted!!! (12526472)
8 years ago
BB-15: A machine that can do complex heart surgery (bypass procedures) will be able to close up tissue and internal organs which have been cut open otherwise, the machine could not do the surgery.
If the machine is capable of completely healing wounds, immediately after surgery, why did it have to use staples? That makes absolutely no sense, unless of course the stapling occurs solely for dramatic visual effect, which is the case. A big problem is that this movie values dramatic visual effect WAY above any kind of common sense or rational plot. Visual effect is a hallmark of Ridley Scott, but in the case of Prometheus the balance between striking visuals and plot coherence completely fails. If it was a surreal horror like Eraserhead it could be forgiven, but it is not. It presents itself as hard sci fi.
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BB-15
8 years ago
by rsheppard52
"If the machine is capable of completely healing wounds, immediately after surgery, why did it have to use staples?"
My view is that for the outer skin those staples would be stronger than an advanced biological bonding (using energy beams) which would be at the level of stitches / sutures in our world.
The outer skin can have great stress placed upon it and the staples would have the extra strength to keep the wound closed under extreme stress.
"It presents itself as hard sci fi."
Agreed that hard SF is part of the style of "Prometheus".
But it also has adventure, and mystery,
- In many ways "Prometheus" reminds me of "Jurassic Park".
Both have hard SF aspects but things are not always perfect in terms of hard SF.
Instead the films can do things "solely for dramatic visual effect".
- I accept that as part of this kind of SF genre. But that's just my personal taste.
It's fine if we agree to disagree.
BB ;-)
it is just in my opinion - imo - 🌈
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