MovieChat Forums > The Way (2010) Discussion > Doing El Camino...as an atheist.

Doing El Camino...as an atheist.


First of all, what an excellent movie. Might as well be my favorite for 2011.
As an European backpacker myself, I should say this movie succeeded in capturing how it's done quite well. Quite well indeed as I started thinking doing El Camino de Santiago.

And here's the thing, I don't believe in religions of any kind and usually I find it really hard to tolerate those who have their beliefs (I know, I know...Altho I'm getting better here as in the past I would ignore those people and immediately judge them as stupid. I'm not that person anymore), so this makes me wonder how contradictory would my journey be. Yes, I know Tom (Martin Sheen) wasn't religious either, but he had his reason to do El Camino.

I enjoyed so much all the natural and rural environment, that's the main reason why I want to do El Camino.

A part of me wants me to do it but the other part 'keeps saying' "Don't do it, it's a religious thing".

Update: It's been three years and I still haven't made it.

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Well actually it has Pagan origins and then later assimilated into the Christian culture like most Pagan traditions.

I wouldn't actually worry about it. It's like Christians who celebrate Christmas because they think it's a christian holiday (christ's birth and all) and end up looking like idiots to anyone in the know.

The extension of the Saint James Way to Cape Finisterre is an historic pilgrimage route. Many pilgrims continue along "El Camino de las Estrellas" to Fisterra, the end of the known(!) world until 1492. The "Way of the Stars" is a pre-Christian route to the pagan temple of Ara Solis in Fisterra erected to honour the sun, and attracted pagan pilgrims from all over Europe. Unfortunately, almost all of the pagan altars along the route were erased by the Church, and the Pagan myths and deities repackaged with familiar spin.

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It's not religious for everyone. I walked part of it and I am agnostic, and many of the people I met on the camino were atheist or agnostic as well.




"The success of the horror genre has led to its downfall."
-Dario Argento

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I'm not an atheist, but I'm certainly not a Christian.

I did the Camino in 2007 on a mtn bike with my wife and daughter. We loved it. It's very scenic, the people are very nice and it passes through lots of Spanish wine country.

I loved all the old cathedrals.

Of course, in the back of my mind I could always hear Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition skits.

My write up: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1r4vFZo&doc_id=2493&v=Mh

And here's a nun at the Pilgrim's Mass in Santiago checking her watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5-fZnB-wAo

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[deleted]

Not exactly. Christmas, for example, was an existing pagan midwinter festival stolen by Christians. Not only was Christ NOT born on December 25th but we don't even know what day that would have been back then and no date is mentioned in the Bible.

Incidentally, for the athiests out there, Jesus isn't even a "historical" figure, no contempory Roman historian mention ever hims by name and Nazareth is not an archaeological town or village. Both ONLY exist in the Bible. How about that!

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Your post is 1000 percent wrong. Jesus IS a historical figure.Leaving side the testimony in the Gospels, they point to the writings of a Jewish historian Flavious Josephus, Roman documents like the Lives of the Twelve Ceasers, and Pliny the Younger’s letters to the Emperor Trajan.

I am an agnostic myself, but I always am amused by the intolerance and disrespect shown by fellow agnostics and atheists to Christianity. Obviously this antipathy comes from years of people dealing with arrogant Christians who act not as they say. But two wrongs do not make a right.

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So good to see an intelligent and unbiased comment such as this, gives me hope for Humanity. The World needs more who 'think' like this.
KenR

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Conspiracy Theory BS.


No, historical fact.

Even the Old Testament and the Biblical god were copied off of earlier Mesopotamian mythology.

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^ And it wasn't even a process of cultural suppression so much as a process of cultural integration.

Ironically, neo-pagan practices are more christian than they are pagan, since they come from the writings of Crowley, who based his work on Waite and Levi, who in turn were Christian occultists who adapted the works of other Renaissance era christian occultists.

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....and end up looking like idiots to anyone in the know. "

What an moronic statement to make. I am a Christian and my beliefs are mine; the fact that you are an atheist is irrevelant.

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Christians celebrate Christmas because it is a Christian holiday. The fact it's incorporated Pagan traditions isn't that relevant, it's just a case of a new religion replacing an old one, which isn't uncommon. Doesn't change the fact it's a Christian holiday in the slightest and to label people who aren't aware of this quite obscure fact is in itself idiotic.

In reply to the OP. I'm certain being atheist won't affect your enjoyment and general experience if you do decide to take the journey. Just be aware that many of the people offering you shelter and welcome along the way will be people of faith and try not to insult them or their beliefs and I'm sure they'll treat you with the same respect.

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You re wrong. It doesnt have pagan origins and nowhere in any ancient source is sth like that documented.

The pilgrimage was started by Christians in medieval times to worship the tomb of St James.

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The trail was there long before St. James and Christian importance given to the trail. The Celts were already in Galicia and even had a war with the Romans over a hundred years before Christ was born. As most roads start out, it was probably a well traveled trade route for centuries since they would want the easiest route to get across the northern part of the Iberian peninsula. That is why so much actual pavement now is right alongside the Camino because it is very flat and direct. Celts were known for their pagan rituals so the validity of pilgrimages to Finistere, which at the time would have been thought to be the end of the earth, are not hard to imagine. Archaeologists have excavated ruins there and on the trails leading to Finistere.

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You cannot reason with religious people.

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I wouldn't actually worry about it. It's like Christians who celebrate Christmas because they think it's a christian holiday (christ's birth and all) and end up looking like idiots to anyone in the know.


What a profoundly arrogant opinion. But I might understand where you are in your thought.

Because, I began as an atheist... when I was 13. The superficial external understandings of Christianity I had at that time did not make sense. But the years have matured me. As I grew in experience and continued to question, I discovered Christ. But with enough time, I expect that every truly open mind will eventually discover Him, if you can keep curiosity and honesty alive in you. You see, "Christianity" is actually a person, Jesus Christ, not a religion or a concept. He Himself told us that apart from a direct experience of Him, His teachings will always appear foolish to the "wise". The Faith simply cannot be grasped without Jesus communicating it to your heart and spirit. He is always ready if you can allow yourself to be willing.

Sadly, I can attest that non-believers can be unbelievably tiresome. Atheism might just be be the most close-minded and intolerant religion of all time. Certainly the gulags and killing fields of 20th Century Communism would support that view. Brothers and sisters of my Church were murdered by the millions in Russia. But saints still rose from the killing fields and now the faith is returning to Mother Russia. State atheism has passed the way of all empty concepts.

Open your mind. Try it. You might discover that there is more to Life can your current opinions permit.

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Blame causality.

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I walked the Camino last year and even though you don't believe in religion of any kind I highly recommend you do it. The religious aspect is there if one wants it but it's not neccesary unless one stays in a church alburgue (the nuns will make you take part in an evening service). There is no other journey that I know of like this, it's a simple life, sleep, walk, eat, rest and do it over and over again for over a month. If you do decide to do it consider taking in some of the religious parts of it, take it for what it is, it adds so much to the journey.

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Instinctively, I say do it. The film did a great job of capturing the sense of adventure that would come with such a trip.

But, if you actually have a problem described as "hard to tolerate" with those with beliefs, would you really want to go, seeing that you would be surrounded by them?

Why not find something comparable with less spiritual and religous travelers?

The Reel Rhino
http://reelrhino.blogspot.com

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bolachasmaria, you say you find it hard to tolerate religious people, and you say you want to take a world famous Catholic pilgrimage.

You say you want to do it for the nature and the drugs.

Why not do another walk that isn't famous for religious people? That way you don't have to expose yourself to people you don't like. And they don't have to be exposed to your intolerance.

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Thank you, Danusha. An excellent response.

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[deleted]

it is amazingly ignorant to think it is possible for a non religious person to avoid religion, it has been a tool forced on the world for thousands of years by rulers and societies.
You think I don't want to see the ancient cities of the cananites and babalonians just because I don't believe in a god? You seem to think just because religion dominated everything in the past, all these things are religious but in fact they are only religious because you would be killed by the ruling power for not supporting the local religion at the time.
There is nothing religious about the ancient art like in the vatican city, it just happens the only people with money at the time to patron the painters were corrupt religious officials hoarding and abusing all the money.
It is human art made by humans for the pleasure of humans.

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Excellent response, and great answer! As a Christian, and one that sees the significant value in the Camino de Santiago; it is a bit annoying and disrespectful to hear atheists say they want to do this walk because of 'nature' and drugs. I agree, go walk along the California coast, or even through Nebraska if you just want a long walk and a reason to get stoned.

I really have no problem with any atheist doing the walk out of the historical value, or to learn something. Just as long as the athiests make sure they:

1. Please be respectful to those who are doing a true pilgrimage. To the athiests; it's just a long walk to get exercise or see history....I guess.

2. Most importantly, shut your mouth when approaching others who are receiving sincere spiritual value out of the pilgrimage.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but a lot of 'athiests' seem to enjoy slamming those of us who hold our faith in high value by saying we are 'sheep', 'followers', or 'can't think for ourselves'.

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Do the Severiano Ballesteros golf trail in Northern Spain. He's from Padrena. And the poet emeritus and patron saint of the short iron. Tons of spiritual courses up there to walk and carry your own bag.

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[deleted]

I appreciate that response.
It reminds me of an article I read about all the jabs from non-believers that Christians have to tolerate as a part of being Christian and how somehow it's harder for non-believers to tolerate us as they (Russell Peters) put together Christmas comedy specials where Pamela Anderson, of all people, plays the virgin Mary!

It is so hard to tolerate us promoting *abstinence* to teenagers who are definitely not *really* in love with their significant others, who are just doing it to be cool, part of the in-crowd, curious, to prevent teen pregnancy. That "no glove, no love" philosophy is like buying the condoms *for* the idiotic and hormonal teens so that they don't have to be embarrassed buying them for themselves!

Sorry for the tangent...

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Because most of you don't tolerate. You impose.

For a religion of love, Christianity seems to have acquired a rather noxious obsession with sex. You treat sex as if it's the most evil thing ever invented. Something you can only do with heavy guilt and only for the purpose of making children. More Christians will complain about a movie where a woman takes her top off than a movie where someone takes someone's head off. That's saying a lot about priorities.

Take for instance the question of contraception. Teenagers are horny and stupid. We all know that. And no matter how you believe abstinence to be the best way to avoid unwanted pregnancies, you can not stop teenage hormones unless you go back to the dark ages and chain your daughter up in the cellar. Look at Sarah Palin's daughter for instance. Some young girl will always end up believing they were in love with some smooth-talking young punk and get herself knocked up.

And then what? Do you think God will simply tell her "I told you so" and make the bump go away so she can get on with her life having learned her lesson?

No. Her future's destroyed. Either she gets forced into a loveless marriage, she gets thrown out on the street, she gives the kid up for adoption, or she gets an abortion. And the latter is an even greater evil, even for those who support it. Choosing to kill sperm cells is better than having to choose to kill a baby, no? Even if she doesn't, a kid raised by a mother not ready for it or worse, who does not want it, will suffer as well.

And no matter how tightly you close your eyes against reality, it happens far more than you think it does (I bet you personally know at least two such girls, am I right?). The most religious countries tend to have the highest birth rates and the highest instances of poverty. In a world where overpopulation is already becoming a very serious problem, you can not simply trust prayer to cure those problems for you. Religion is a guide to living a good life, it's not a crutch for the people who are too lazy to think for themselves.

And believe it or not, contraception is not and has never been an attack on any religion. It's actually because you always act like it is that the number of people making fun of you is increasing. Everything from evolution to gay marriage to even the question of is the Earth flat, you treat as if it was deliberately created by evil satanists with the main goal of destroying your Christian faith.

Gimme a break. That's the problem with religion.You believe you're the center of the world. That only you and your faith are important, the chosen people, and everyone else are irrelevant. A belief most commonly seen in its extreme form among Muslim extremists which Christians are beginning to look uncomfortably similar to. You rarely ever see the big picture nor even imagine what things might look like from another perspective.

Jesus was betrayed and put to death for that reason. He challenged the authority of the high priests and the Pharisees, who thought salvation could only be attained through a strict literalistic interpretation of religious written laws and rituals. He consorted with sinners, he deliberately broke traditions, and he paid for it with his life. And two thousand years later, his followers have again established a restrictive clergy and a controlling church. They have once again started to believe that ritual and words are more important than action and intent. That being "good" was merely a matter of following as many rules in the book as possible. They've put so much importance into the words that they've stopped understanding the message.

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Be careful.

You're painting all Christians with the same brush.

We're not all shaped by the same cookie cutter.

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Don't take 'Christian history lessons' from non-believers too seriously, girl. In fact, don't take them seriously at all; they LOVE to spout off their anger in very wordy and bogus statements, expecting you to listen. And in return, they won't listen to you at all. I would truly get significant value in the Camino de Santiago; and wish to take the pilgrimage some day.

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I've done it twice, first the Camino del Norte along the northern coast and then ten years later the most common Camino Francés from St Jean. I've also done some of the French sections. I am completely atheist. It is a great experience and there is a great sense of shared purpose with your fellow pilgrims whether you are religious or not. No one is judgmental. I highly recommend it.

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Anyone can do it for whatever reasons. It is not a religious thing...only. I met people on the way who did this for religious, spirituail, health or just as tourist.

In one of the albergues I met 73 year old woman from France. Asked by me why she was walking Camino she said: FOR FUN!!

The best reason ever!

Some people discovered faith on the way. Some found love and friendships. I have to do it again myself because I walked all the way with someone who I thought was a friend and it was a big mistakes. I am doing it again alone!

Nika

I've got a Ruby Red Desire
Like a Virus
Like My Last Hope

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I think it's pretty hypocritical to do this journey if one thinks religious people are "stupid" or "dumb". There are many "journeys" one can take around the world that don't involve religion whatsoever, and despite what spin some might put into it, El Camino de Santiago is intrinsically, at its core, a christian pilgrimage. It's like a christian taking the pilgrimage to Mecca just "for the experience", "because it's cool", or "to get away". Doesn't make much sense. To each his own I guess. Just my opinion.

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