I had to say I find it odd that there are a few people here eagerly equating the film's cult with all organized religions that promote the belief in God and other related supernatural beliefs when God is never even mentioned by the cult. The cult leader and his misguided followers could very well have been a die hard atheists.
shareI don't think I'd consider it odd that a few people on any IMDB discussion say crazy things. Seems to be par for the course for this site. ;)
Yes, you are correct that the argued connections between cults and organized religion really has nothing to do with the particular deities that they believe in.
The connections are usually less about religion and cults and more about particular sects of religions, or very particular churches within a larger religion. The similarities are where there are very clear human leaders that use various psychological techniques to keep their followers submissive to their own personal belief system.
So, it's completely unfair to say that all religions are cults. But it is fair to say that some aspects of some sects of some religions do tend to fit into the cult bucket.
because atheists are evil, right ?
shareSome are. Some aren't. Most of the atheists I've met are manipulative, condescending and rabid in their need to make you *not* believe. I see little difference between them and fundamentalist types always talking about the bible.
I certainly have never met an atheist who is about "do your own thing, dude." A friend of mine actually asked for five minutes of my time recently to "talk to me about atheism." He couldn't see the parallel between this tactic and religious proselytizing. I don't want any ideology forced on me, thanks.
I certainly have never met an atheist who is about "do your own thing, dude."
I think that is the impression most people get of atheists because those are the only atheists they know of around them, even though there are probably plenty more who keep their beliefs to themselves. It's this weird think that if people don't talk about either religion or a lack thereof, they are kind of assumed to be religious by default.
On the original topic though, I totally agree, Communist dictators like Mao, Stalin, Kim Il Sung, etc. were all dedicated and avowed atheists, yet arguably the biggest cult leaders in history.
You meet some odd atheists...
Or you're just full of crap.
I try not to be condescending in my thoughts but it's a bit hard sometimes. I'm not a militant atheist, there is a reason why humans evolved a desire for religion. Every culture has religion. So it must have been useful during our evolution, and it can be argued that it might be still useful. Religion provides a "model" for the incredible complex psyche of us humans. I don't knock fairy tales either, they are similar "psychoactive" stories that where created from century old stories told at fireplaces, and similar to religion provides a "map" to orient yourself with.
Of course I don't limit the term religion to supernatural beliefs, but any irrational belief system. The biggest religion in the US for example is materialism (greed, vanity, power) and nationalism. It certainly has nothing to do with the philosophy of Jesus Christ.
As for the cult, they definitely weren't atheists, they where spiritualists or something. The cult leader mentioned nirvana. They definitely had a weird belief system that was not founded on fact, science or reason.
Congratulations, you just proved the above point, you're a Fundamentalist Atheist; you do realize that Nazi jew-baiters like Julius Streicher wrote about Judaism in a disturbingly similar way to how you are writing about religious belief? You come across like an incredibly bigot person while completely lacking in any self awareness of your bigotry.
shareWhat did I do? Did you maybe reply to the wrong person? Or you just trolling?
shareStrange world you live in - where everyone shares their religious belief. Most atheists I meet are people who I don't know are atheists.
"I'm entitled. Simple. End of.."
I think atheists are more like, "do your own thing, dude" whereas religions/cults (that's kind of repetitive, no?) use various tactics to get others to believe what they want them to believe. I don't see atheists trying to make others believe what they do very often, where religions and cults spend a lot of time and energy using various forms of coercion. Atheists don't seem to be organized. Certainly not organized enough to get a cult off the ground.
shareThe many, many atheists that go out of their way to try to make anyone that believes in God feel like a moron for disagreeing with definitely don't subscribe to "do your own thing, dude."
Many believe in making an effort to help others understand why they should or shouldn't feel a certain way or believe certain things based on what someone feels will help them and help society.
That's not quite the same as trying to force or outright brainwash someone into thinking/behaving as you want them to.
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I dunno, I'm an agnostic myself, and my own attitude is very live-and-let-live, but a friend of mine is a hardcore atheist and she is constantly belittling people for believing in god, to the point where I get pissed at her. She says it's payback for all the crap she's gotten for being an atheist, but it's still counterproductive and wrong, imo. I don't like people pissing on my beliefs (or lack thereof), so it's hard to imagine pissing on other people's is likely to improve the situation. Live and let live. (However, if you try to convert me you will get return fire.)
Saying "I apologize" is the same as saying "I'm sorry." Except at a funeral.
Atheists don't do cults. Kind of the point of being an atheist.
shareNope, the point of being an atheist is simply trying to remove God from the equation, that doesn't mean there couldn't be a cult like the one shown in this film consisting of atheists.
+++by His wounds we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5+++
Yes. This story borrows elements of the real world Manson Family. While those people made some quasi-religious public statements, they wasn't really religious.
shareDo you realize how ridiculous that statement is given how many cult leaders and their chief lieutenants are atheists themselves? Yikes.
shareWhat Greg is saying is that all the religious cult leaders are, of course, atheist, as they are relying on the uneducated minority which believe in a higher power (do me a favour) to be total dicks and believe in fairies, father Christmas, etc, etc
Part of the reason cults have power is because they have some sort of higher power to manipulate their followers with.
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Well as atheists don't believe in God, why not create a cult and make themselves godlike on earth lol.
A cult is basically manipulating people and playing on their vulnerabilities to get what you want. Any person can do that lol whether religious or not.
So it honestly can go both ways.
I could find some validity to a non-God based cult. The philosophies and morals of the group seemed to be determined by their leader and he seemed to look at the world in a very particular way. In example the idea that they hadn't killed that man because he'd exist elsewhere.
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Pretty much every Atheist I've met(I'm Atheist and have met allot),are natural skeptics and prefer evidence based reasoning and logic...so I would be very surprised to see Atheist in cults.I'll I can say is that speculation doesn't have much value(to me,and those who care about such things)so...show me your tangible evidence.Otherwise,your preaching to Your own choir.
shareI lost faith in a god when I was about 10 or 11 and I spent years trying to find some meaning without god/s, I searched through politics, ideologies and philosophies to find some meaning or purpose and at the age of 18 I accepted that there was no meaning or purpose, that life was inherently worthless and whether I die today or a million yrs from now is irrelevant. So I can understand how a young atheist might get involved in a cult because they might be desperate (like most people who get involved in cults are) to find some meaning or purpose or to belong.
shareit seems to me Patrick is just mixing up various religious beliefs with philosophies and using whatever supports his own delusions in order to control other people.
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