MovieChat Forums > The American (2010) Discussion > 360 MPH?

360 MPH?

posted 12 years ago by Gabe1972
11 replies | jump to latest

Just to preface, these were not factory load rounds. Jack altered them himself. A person stated in the goof section that the velocity is incorrect, but again, these are altered rounds, not factory loads.

Perhaps I'm incorrect, but 528 fps seems quite insufficient for a 5.56 at a range of 150 to 175 meters. The trajectory would be absolutely abysmal. Suppose your target is at 100 meters instead of the 150-175 like you were intending. Your scope elevation would be quite off and you may not have time to adjust it. Also, at that velocity a 5.56 is not going to have a whole lot of impact. Sure, a clean head shot would probably work, but again, suppose you can't get a head shot and you have to hit the chest. If it's cold out and the person is wearing a few layers of clothing, that velocity may not cut it.

I would think that a velocity of around 1030 to 1050 would be much better. Better range and trajectory and still no sonic boom to give more of an indication as to your location (yes, I know it had a noise suppressor, but the less noise the better).

Am I incorrect in thinking this? I have fired many guns and many different calibers, the 5.56 being my favorite, but only a cheap pellet gun at a velocity this low.

If your nose runs and your feet smell, you were built upside down.

[–] dangus 12 years ago

Probably an error. I think in real life, such a weapon would be based on a larger caliber. Like the De Lisle Carbine of WW2. A bolt action Enfield was fitted with a modified Thompson barrel and fed .45 ACP from an M1911 magazine. According to Wikipedia, muzzle velocity was about 850 fps, and it was inaudible at 50 yards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine

[–] Gabe1972 12 years ago

Most definitely a mistake. I see on that carbine that the effective range at 850fps is 200 yards. I know that a .223 is much more aerodynamic, but 528fps still seems very low for 150 meters. Like i said, you could make it happen if you knew that your target was going to be at 150 meters, but if it's closer by anything more than 10 meters or so, the scope settings are going to be off, by quite a bit.

I can see them using a .223, and not the carbine, as I'm sure Jack would want to use a round he is familiar with. He's probably used that round many times in the past.

I was going to add it to the goofs section, but I didn't want to put something there that I wasn't absolutely sure of.

BTW, to the person who added the goof about the velocity of a .223 being 3100fps, you are correct, but it is not a goof. The rounds they were using were loaded by Jack, i.e. reloads, not factory loaded rounds.

If your nose runs and your feet smell, you were built upside down.

[–] schumithecat 12 years ago

it is certainly an error and covered in the goofs section. he also says the velocity was reduced "20 mph" by the suppressor, which means regular speed was 380 mph, absurdly slow for a pistol let alone rifle round.

also no one who knows guns would state muzzle velocity in mph. it is always stated in feet per second. it would be like asking a baseball guy how fast a pitcher throws and he responds in feet per second rather than mph.

another thing which made no sense is the suppressor. it was just a bunch of steel rings covered with a steel sleeve. a suppressor needs to have packing material which absorbs and slows down some of the escaping gas. the steel rings would do nothing.

[–] Gabe1972 12 years ago

For sure, but this was a movie suppressor. I have seen many movie suppressors or "silencers" that were even worse than this. I always love the ones that are crooked on a pistol. LOL.

Actually though, the mention in the goof section is incorrect and I have tried getting them to delete it. The information is correct about the actual speeds of a .556 round, but what the poster of the goof evidently didn't realize is that the rounds they were using were packed by Jack and not factory loads, so the speed is definitely altered to whatever Jack wanted. So, in effect, the goof is not a goof and should be deleted.

If your nose runs and your feet smell, you were built upside down.

[–] feodoric 11 years ago

I'm not a gun expert but I'm a pretty good scientist, and one thing anyone with an embryo of a scientific education learns early on is that a measurement can be expressed in whatever CONSISTENT units of his/her choice, regardless of the object or phenomenon measured. Of course, some units seem to make more sense simply by simple habit, but a velocity expressed as mph is as valid and makes as much sense as one in fps. There is simply no "good" way to pick up the units, as long as they are equivalent AND consistent.

Just by curiosity, is there a standard among arms manufacturers for the unit system used? I mean, are old imperial units still in use even in Europe or are they now using metric units for guns specifications in the Old World?

[–] Gabe1972 11 years ago

This is true, but not when it comes to firearms. It just doesn't happen. As I stated in a reply below, in all my years of firearm use, I have never, EVER heard anyone refer to the speed of their rounds as miles per hour. If someone did, they would surely get some odd looks. The only alternate that is sometimes used instead of feet per second is meters per second, especially with people who have served in the military. But, again, NEVER in MPH. This part in the film is just plain odd, let alone the speed he stated.

Perhaps they did it as some sort of inside joke. Surely they had a firearms expert working on the film, and for this simple reason this had to be some sort of inside joke or something. Both the MPH reference and the velocity itself are ridiculous statements for a seasoned assassin to make, so the inside joke is the only thing I can think of. As for the reason, we will never know. The only bad part about it is that your suspension of disbelief in that scene is shaken a bit, which when watching a film is not good thing to happen.

If your nose runs and your feet smell, you were built upside down.

[–] doodleboy 11 years ago

no one who knows guns would state muzzle velocity in mph

i thought that, too, at first, but i think the reason he does this is to assure her that the round will be subsonic.

[–] Gabe1972 11 years ago

Actually, when it comes to guns, and these people definitely know them, they would most assuredly express the speed in FPS, not MPH. Most gun enthusiasts know what the speed of sound is in FPS, but I bet a large majority would have no idea what it would be in MPH. I don't. I had to look I up, but I know right off the bat that the speed of sound is 1088fps. The whole thing with him stating the speed in MPH is most definitely strange, let alone the speed he stated. Just not believable. In all my years of shooting I have never, EVER heard any shooter refer to the speed of their rounds as MPH. Although, you sometimes hear people express it in meters per second, especially with people who have served in the military. But again, never MPH.

If your nose runs and your feet smell, you were built upside down.

[–] LookinGood 10 years ago

I have no knowledge of guns except from what I picked up here and there, but that was also the first time I heard muzzle velocity stated in mph. In fact it was in km/h (kilometres per hour), as I watched it in German :-). They translated the error, too (they sometimes correct things like this in the translation).
--
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[–] pcventures 11 years ago

I think it was a mistake by filmmakers who don't have much of a clue about firearms. That whole scene in which he and Mathilde discussed the specifications was laughable.
The right round for that job? 300 AAC Blackout - tremendous short-medium range knockdown power, relatively flat trajectory for the ranges they were working with, and easily suppressed sound signature.
BTW, anyone catch how he "thumbed down" his Walther pistol, rather than using the decocker?

"...and Mrs. Taylor sure seems to use a lotta ice, whenever he's away."

[–] doodleboy 11 years ago

well, again: it's a movie made for wide audiences. They're going to use a generic round (.30, 5.56, etc). If he'd come up with .300 BLK rounds, the question would be "how did he get ~60 pieces of .300BLK brass in a small Italian town - or thru international mail from Midway - without raising suspicion?" Remember, he had to have the brass, reloading dies, powder, slugs, etc shipped in from....Midway.com? Thru customs, etc? Or maybe he's got a supplier, but they might not have everything on hand. AND: consider that the movie might not be set in the present - consider the cellphone models, cars, payphones, etc.

And, you saw my reply in the other thread about the decocker - it'd be too loud, and he doesn't want the woman to know he'd cocked a gun, ready to shoot her. Thumbing the hammer down (despite the foley sounds) is much quieter, and he wouldn't give his suspicions away.

the whole scene is much better than, say, the scene in the Jackal where Jack Black demos the gun for Bruce Willis. So, in comparison, i'm satisfied.