MovieChat Forums > Sap ji sang ciu (2013) Discussion > It could have been better... (spoilers)

It could have been better... (spoilers)


Firstly, I was glad to see that Jackie was going to direct himself again given the successes in the 80's, and particularly since he was known for being a bit of a perfectionist on the film set and also since his directorial abilities had been publicly brought into question pre Miracles (Lady Rose). However, while there were some signature Jackie Chan parts to this film, there were a lot of things that could have been better. I appreciate that the film has been targeted somewhat at a young Chinese audience, but if making a great film had been the main aim, then I would have done the following differently (i'm not chinese which may explain some of the differences):


-the script needed a big edit (it's far too preaching; there were a lot of locations and a lot of artifacts and the play of the movie was not easy to follow/memorable (should have given a text indicator on the screen when change of location - this was in the trailers, but not on the Blu-ray I saw); it was not realistic to see JC turn from bounty hunter to world saviour, and the end of the film certainly seemed built around the action sequence rather than a sensible script). The 3D printers were unrealistic.

-the jungle scene. hmm it just felt different to the rest of the movie. And trying to be funny but not succeeding.

-not had the main character called JC (that's just pretentious)

-don't use special effects as much - there's no need for it (Jackie still can do the moves) and it's obvious when it's used (ie. the intro, the zoom out from the jungle (what was that about?), the explosion in the jungle, the factory blowing up, the volcano scene etc Don't get me started on Who Am I..)

-don't surround yourself with actors who are a lot younger than you. It just doesn't feel right.

-when doing the chewing gum bit, should have used the signature slap on the wrist move. don't put them on your phone like some cheap advertising thing.

-if you're going to get actors to do Chinese and English, get native Chinese/English speakers rather than people who have learnt it.

-don't have a film spoken in so many languages. It makes it feel disjointed.

-I don't speak Chinese, but it seems to me that speaking in Cantonese allows for more expressive humour than mandarin

-where was the humour? There were elements of the cheeky chappie Asian Hawk character of the past (ie. in the photographic room), but there wasn't enough of it (and there could have been but for the direction of the script)

-should have had a JC music single over the end credits (the duet in the middle was pretty non descript)

-shouldn't have pinched the music from Who Am I and remixed it - lazy.

-a few actors who weren't that great (or maybe they were being directed to overact..)

-overdramatic incidental music at times

-french actress in the jungle shooting the machine gun. I don't know if it was supposed to be a hark back to operation condor, but it fealt like a blatant rip and it wasn't funny in either film.

-it was good to see the cameo by jackie's wife in the film at the end, but the lead up to it could have been done much better that just a woman on the end of a phone.




I'm not trying to put down Jackie's movie. Just pointing out areas i think it could have been improved to have made it a lot better overall. I know Jackie is still a good actor, can still do action, has been in some very good films over the last few years. Also the fact that there are some very good parts to this film is why it is disappointing that this film was not as good as it could have been. I think it will seem a bit better after a second viewing however.

Still, am looking forward to the next police story.. which hopefully will have a better script/direction, and not have him surrounded by a bunch of young people again.

reply

Agree with everything you wrote sir!

If you check my review on this board you will see we have similar points!

The movie is good but it could have been better.

The use of...or lack of Jackie's music in the end credits was disappointing for me. That's the best track I have heard in a long time and it deserved to be on the film. He was given a Guinness world record for most credits, you would think they would add the music instead of a Who Am I remix which was confusing and embarrassing!

Story was confusing as hell even for a Jackie Chan film. I too was thinking, 'when did Jackie go from thief to world saviour?'

And who cared about the 101 characters and their subplots. That woman with the legs, did anyone really care about her husband and child? If they deleted it, it would have meant nothing really.

The build to Jackie's wife isn't special unless you know about Jackie and Lin-Feng Jiao. To anyone else they would be like 'whaaaa???'. Still nice to see though.

I loved the action scenes for what they were and like you, I despised the use of CGI. Not hating on the CGI in terms of Jackie using it, but the fact that he or his team can't use it properly. What I mean is that it looks like it was made for 2002 video game. OK most of the CGI is passable but the very first scene where Jackie jumps off in his rollerblade suit and lands on a net being hung by a helicopter (yeah that does sound stupid when I explain it like that, but that's what happened!) was just epic cringeworthiness.

Everything else reminded me of the 80s which was nice but I agree using a 58yr old opposite under 30yr old actors just doesn't work. It's a shame Jackie needed so many co-stars who were trying to take his spotlight (and then failing miserably). We wanted Jackie! Seriously they could have made Chinese Zodiac about Jackie sitting on a sofa and it would be an instant hit.

I have already pre-ordered the movie and will enjoy it on a second viewing. My thinking is that everyone loves/hates it because of the hype Jackie created when he appeared in Comic Con. I will admit it was odd and fascinating to see Jackie Chan at such a huge convention advertising a Chinese movie. That itself created so much hysteria, so I don't blame people for being disappointed by the movie. If he hadn't of done that, then this would be just another Jackie Chan movie.

I loved the film. 7/10 for me but it could have been something more. I'm not expecting Jackie to beat Drunken Master II but he should make an effort to make a film with a good story. We're in the 21st century, audiences are more 'educated' with their Dark Knight and Inception plots, you just can't make cheap 'why did you look at me, let's fight' movies.

I bet this new Police Story film will be excellent with limited hype just like Little Big Soldier and Shinjuku Incident and they were great movies!

Come on Jackie!

reply

About the gum thing. It felt very forced. And I thought the things were round-shaped in the previous movies. That's why I thought it was drugs he was using to get him all pumped up for the fights. That was cool (cause drugs are cool, kids), gum is lame - might as well not do the stunt at all.

-------------------------------------
Victims, aren't we all?

reply

"-if you're going to get actors to do Chinese and English, get native Chinese/English speakers rather than people who have learnt it."
But Jackie Chan learned all of his first English roles phonetically.

"-don't have a film spoken in so many languages. It makes it feel disjointed. "
To me it felt international. Loved it.

I also loved the Jungle scene. Felt the most Armor of God-ish.

"Don't look down on yourself, just because other people do."
youtube.com/morbidchid

reply

The 3 rules for protesters was extremely preachy and cringe worthy. Almost ruin the movie for me. Also, the using "Chinese people" and "Chinese government" like they are the same thing was laughable.

reply

I know what people mean when they say that too many languages made it feel disjointed.

Actually, I find it more ridiculous to have everyone ALWAYS speak english to each other (they even did that in this movie - why would chinese people speak bad english to each other when there's no one else that needs to hear it, instead of fluent chinese?), even if it is with an accent. It destroys the immersion and creates such a surreal situation that it's just not believable (except to americans, perhaps).

We all know the old movies, where russians speak english to each other in 'russian accent', germans speak english to each other in 'german accent', and so on.

It's more realistic to use the actual languages, spoken by the 'native speakers' so to say.

However, the WAY it was done in this movie, made things very confusing, and, "disjointed", perhaps is a good way to describe this particular form of confusion.

Some hardcoded subtitles would have helped. As I don't understand chinese or french or the other used languages much, all I could really get without subtitles were the japanese parts, and those bits were very short and spoken much less than the other languages, and also, such cliché lines that I wanted to groan. "I didn't know this kind of place exists!", etc. Argh. Where did they find these lines, from the cheapest manga comics they could find?

I think Jackie is suffering from some kind of ivory tower hallucination or God complex. Having led a relatively sheltered life after becoming famous, having surrounded himself with yes-men, and thinking everything he does is gold and great, never seeing the criticism, he has probably gone a little bit crazy.

I mean, his statements that people should have LESS FREEDOM, that he is SO PROUD OF HIMSELF (stated as a voice-over in this movie in the ending credits section!), and a lot of other things (he is an atheist too, I think) make me think he's got a screw loose.

When you think about his life, how could anyone retain their sanity? On the other hand, you are this worshipped mega-superstar that everyone seems to like (despite your clearly and openly massive ego - just watch some Conan O'Brien interviews, where "JC" (these initials are .. carefully chosen?) struts his stuff without any sign of humility)...

... and on the other hand, you never see a 'normal life', because you are making a movie per year, or sometimes two movies per year, constantly, without a real break or a holiday or anything to allow a 'normal life' to reach you. So basically, you are living a ROLE most of your life, and dangerous role that is - incredibly dangerous stunts, lots of physical training, and ridiculous plots with all kinds of 'technology' that you find in magazines and the internet almost as the secondary protagonist.

How materialistic.

Never in Jackie's movies do we hear messages of spirituality, humility, goodness - but mostly materialistic, hollyweird-typical, twisted and weird crap, the wrong values.

How can you develop as a moviemaker, if you just make movies, but never 'live a life'? Let's face it, he has never lived a regular life as a regular dude, except as a young guy in China a long time ago.

Let's also face that he got famous purely because of his PHYSICAL talents. Nothing spiritual, nothing intellectual, nothing creative - just physical. He had incredibly powerful muscles, and he was able to perform incredibly impressive stunts and coreographies and such.

Bruce Lee, on the other hand, had a real grip on real life. He struggled a long time before being accepted as a movie star - and Bruce Lee actually paved way for Jackie Chan, so Jackie didn't actually have to struggle as hard in that sense. And Jackie got famous and rich way younger than Bruce.

Bruce Lee was spiritual, he knew what Zen was from experience, and he wrote volumes of books full of wisdom and great, timeless insights that I treasure to this day - I seriously encourage everyone to read them at least once in your life.

What did Jackie do when he realized he was becoming famous, and wanted to become even more famous? He HAD HIS EYELIDS CUT, so he would LOOK MORE WESTERN! (Hm, more 'westernian'?)

Bruce Lee would never have done something so shallow, materialistical and brutal to his own body. Bruce was never as interested in becoming famous as he was interested in getting to the core truths of life and Martial Arts, and teaching it all then to the whole world (via movies). He of course loved moviemaking, because he was creative (can you do any 'arts' without being creative?) - who wouldn't love opportunities to express their creativity in a fun way?

But he was never pathologically obsessed about making movies the way Jackie seems to have been - who exactly forced him to just keep making the movies without taking a couple of years off to just relax and live, and learn what 'regular people' live like?

I mean, his life has basically been a jump from one movie plot to another - from one role to another, constantly, every year, he has to 'become someone else'.

Surely something like that can become a confusing effect to anyone's psyche in the long run - and Jackie's run has been really long. Making action movies when you are 58? Is that really healthy, psychologically speaking?

And when you look at what he is ready to do - not to cure cancer, not to help starving children in the Philippines, not to teach anything worthwhile to the audiences, not to fight the red tape or to reveal important truths (like the much-feared and thus much disinformatizioned and ridiculed "freeman on the land" stuff) to the public, not to FREE people from their chains (remember, he wants people to be LESS free!) - - - but to make ridiculous action movies with plots that no one really cares about!

So he SACRIFICES HIS VERY LIFE just to make CRAP MOVIES that no one would watch, if they didn't have a famous name like Jackie Chan attached to them, and spectacular Martial Arts scenes in them.

I am sure people would watch Jackie Chan movies without any stunts, but with good Martial Arts scenes. And I am sure that people wouldn't have started watching Jackie's movies, if there were only great stunts in them, but no martial arts.

His stunt-side is pretty irrelevant in the big picture - his Martial Arts is why people want to watch his movies, besides his "likable character".

But turns out, he's not that likable in real life, at least according to wikipedia and some of the interviews I have seen.

As they say, 'fame goes to your head', and I don't think even Steven Seagal has as big a head as Jackie Chan.

After all, is it any wonder someone has a 'God complex', when their western initials are "J.C."..?









reply

Never in Jackie's movies do we hear messages of spirituality, humility, goodness - but mostly materialistic, hollyweird-typical, twisted and weird crap, the wrong values.

You wrongfully assume that every ideology, philosophy and thought process in the movie is automatically Jackie approved. Jackie is making this movie for both American and Chinese audiences. He's not making a manifesto but something for them to relate to.

How can you develop as a moviemaker, if you just make movies, but never 'live a life'? Let's face it, he has never lived a regular life as a regular dude, except as a young guy in China a long time ago.

He never lived a regular life in China (or Hong Kong). He only lived a regular life when he was a young guy in Australia.

transongeist.com

reply