MovieChat Forums > También la lluvia (2011) Discussion > Conquest + Catholic Church + Fellinian c...

Conquest + Catholic Church + Fellinian cross


I think this film is just awesome! I have really enjoyed the script. It’s great. The few scenes of “the movie inside the movie” that are shown to us are a great way to criticize the role of Spain in America. I especially like how the Catholic Church is always “behind the dialogues”, as when the Spaniard tells native Americans that they will have to obey the laws of the Church and the laws of the Catholic Kings (N.B. he mentions the legislative power of the Church before mentioning the legislative power of the Catholic kings); this is also seen when Colón disembarks and claims the lands for the Christendom… All these goes very well (and subtly!!) with the repression that is portrayed afterwards…

I also think the scene of the Cross being carried by the helicopter is just AMAZING. I am pretty sure this was taken from Fellini’s La dolce vita, where a helicopter carries a sculpture of Christ through the air. Fellini’s scene is very well done, but for some reason I found this re-interpretation of the idea (assuming it’s not just a coincidence—which most likely is not, because the people behind this film seem to have too much culture—and as matter of fact, now that I think of it, the idea of a film-maker involved in the creation of a film is extremely Fellinian too) much more powerful and compelling. I guess the reason is linked to how the cross flying over the mountains somehow anticipates a key element of the whole historical vision of the film (Catholicism expanding…).

This film seems almost visionary. I know much has been written about Spanish abuses during the conquest, but in Spain (where I come from) there is still this huge intellectual justification of the positive role of the American conquest. In a certain sense, I do belong to the number of people who try to limit some of the “black legends” (this comment is NOT historical revisionism :-)), but I admit that an enormous part of the conquest was indeed dim, that colonization is by itself unjustifiable, and that hideous crimes were committed (many in the name of the pious Catholic God—funny, eh?) and I appreciate the brave way in which this film approaches the issue.

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Agre! Totally involving work. I was quite moved by this compelling mixup of culture, history, human drama... reminded me somehow of Werner Herzog's Fitzcarraldo (1982) in style if not substance... gritty reality, casting, like City of God, also Hotel Rwanda... it seemed, full of many other references, as pointed out Fellini!! Mel Gibson's story of the Mayans! .... but played out masterfully, I thought... Give that one a hearty thumbs up!!!!!!

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After the Fellini homage I was hooked -- and when the Bolivians struggled to raise the cross on the hillside, I, too, thought of Fitzcarraldo and was doubly hooked. Very impressive film, 9/10, currently #20 on my 2011 list.

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.

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Nice write-up, especially the Fellini reference, I thought for sure when I opened the message the comment would be "hackery! they stole the flying cross from Fellini!" that are shown to us are a great way to criticize the role of Spain in AmericaYes, and much more than that. A film like Tambien La Lluvia, and films like Biutiful (2010) and Mammoth (2009), exemplify cinema's ability to bring major/global historical and political issues to the forefront in an apolitical manner that allows criticisms of government policies past-and-present to be explored and voiced within the context of history (repetition of crimes against humanity, not new crimes, but continued crimes, the methods evolved but the crimes the same) in the hope that the future will see and end to those policies. Tambien La Lluvia exemplifies how powerful and influential cinema can be in bringing about political/social/historical discourse social/political changes, if only.Tambien La Lluvia tackles (macrocosmic) issues of global human exploitation and global planetary exploitation via a (microcosmic) metonymical construct but the microcosmic metonymy, thanks to the metafilm trick, is broken down into a tripartite panel of three parallel plot lines that are anything but microcosmic - you have the Spanish Conquest (a historical even that everybody across the globe knows about) and all of its macro-issues (colonialization,human-and-resource exploitation, genocide, medical epidemics, religious crusading, corporal punishment, lack of indigenous rights, etc), you have the film project with its set of macro-issues (human-and-resource exploitation and historical revisionism), and you have the water privatization uprising complete with all of its macro-issues (under-developed countries, lack of water infrastructure, lack of indigenous/local rights, poverty, local-resistance-versus-army, resource exploitation, multinationals, commodification, etc), and all three plot strands mirror each other, all the issues are major issues affecting this entire planet, it's three-in-one plot that represents something larger (continued human-and-resource exploitation in Latin America) that in turn represents something larger still (human/resource exploitation all over the planet).The three-in-one plot, I'm just throwing this out there - the Father is the Conquest that started it all, the Son is the Film because the film is the wealth/product/capital/material/fruit of the Conquest, and the Holy Ghost is the Water War because the Water War is the heart and soul of the issue (human/planet exploitation), the [invisible] truth of the matter, the motivating force, that permeates everything yet is 'ghosting' in the background, taking a back seat to the Son/Film/wealth/product/capital/material/fruit.Also notice the cinematography, burnished dark gold palette contrasted against then liquefying into an oil black palette. Gold, Water, Oil. 10/10 and Thank You Gael Garcia Bernal for this film, never would have heard of it if not for you, thanks for this one, and thanks for Mammoth, but Tambien La Lluvia, you risked a lot because you portray a very unlikeable ignorable person who drops in and out of the film, you could have passed but did the film anyway because you knew this film needed to be made and you offered up your "celebrite" to give the film a boost and this fan love you more than ever for that.

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I related much more to the people raising their vigorous protest against the higher water payments in the film, because I still feel resentment against our own water company who did "repairs and maintenance" work late July of last year around our neighborhood area and when our first bill arrived after their supposedly "improvement on water services", I was shocked to see our bill, which before was just a bit more or less 300 pesos monthly, now reaches, on the average 900 pesos - there was even a time during the hot months, April-May-June this year when it was over 1000 pesos, and this was when our government privatized our previously state owned water company.

I learned about colonization from our history highschool textbooks, this poster coming from a Southeat Asian Country (Philippines)that came under Spanish rule for 3 centuries - early 16th to late 19th, then about 50 years of American occupation, 3 of Japanese invasion. It's the past and from time to time it's good to revisit those times just to see how people of that period cope with and tried to survive, in spite of, the tragedies, resourcefully struggled to keep body and soul together. How other groups, more forcefully, actively struggled to keep some semblance of our national dignity and sovereignty.

This is a well-executed film, a clever one in blending the historical past with the economic-social-political issues of contemporary times, especially that of third world countries victimized by colonialism, with its attendant effects of bureaucratic corruption and mass exploitation. I was totally engrossed by the movie every second of its running time.

And what a coincidence that the birth month and day of the movie's director - Maria Icíar Bollaín - is the same as that of our declaration of independence from Spain --- June 12 (1898).

Her photo in her page here in IMDb shows she's a very pretty woman and an actress too. Very much a combination of beauty and brains.




Truth inexorably,inscrutably seeks and reveals Itself into the Light.

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And raising the cross was dangerous just as the Catholicism of the colonialists was dangerous to the natives.

I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl

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