MovieChat Forums > Facing Ali (2010) Discussion > I liked the fim, but...

I liked the fim, but...

posted 14 years ago by Squaredealer33
10 replies | jump to latest

What about this:

Why Didn’t Ali Give George Foreman a Rematch?

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2009/02/how-come-ali-never-gave-george-foreman-a-rematch/

George Foreman Believes He Was Drugged Just Before His Fight With Ali!

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=11048&more=1

and,

1.) Sonny Liston's dive;
2.) George Foreman getting to his feet at the count of 8 but the ref. calling the fight;
3.) Ali's outrageous mouth (ex.: calling Liston an ugly bear, and Frazier a gorilla and an Uncle Tom); and,
4.) The two shady Leon Spinks fights.

You say Ali is the greatest? Maybe, but he's still a boxer and that sport is filled with fraud. Ali, it seems, is part of the fraud as well.

Consider this:

"There is also maybe five or six instances of fights being stopped by the referee when Ali's opponent takes two or three punches but still looks capable of continuing and is not in any serious danger. And again, there's a lot of times his opponents dramatically drop to the floor and roll around, or play dead while the ref counts to ten when there is no clear knockout punches thrown. In all of these fights the opponents seem to recover miraculously and have no problem congratulating Ali. 25 of Ali's KO wins have came as a result of the referee stopping the fight."

I do fault him for not giving Foreman a rematch, and it speaks volumes about Ali as a business man, which seems to be the polar opposite of his status as a great fighter.

[–] re_deus 14 years ago

Foreman pretty much admitted in the film that he made up that stuff about him being drugged. He just said all that because he was so upset about losing. As for a rematch, Foreman didn't fight for 2 years after the defeat, why should an ageing Ali hang around for Foreman to get ready for a rematch? Other fighters were all lining up for a shot at the title while big George was sitting around feeling sorry for himself.

[–] Squaredealer33 14 years ago

"Foreman pretty much admitted in the film that he made up that stuff about him being drugged."

He didn't. He admitted that he talked about his allegations and that's it. It's carefully worded and/or carefully edited. Foreman calls Ali a great fighter because Ali didn't sucker punch him while he's on his way to the ground, and adds that the count was wrong. That's hardly an endorsement.

[–] Squaredealer33 14 years ago

Once Foreman beat Ron Lyle and Joe Frazier, the door should have opened for a mandatory rematch – or a forfeit of the belt. Do you honestly believe that Ali wasn't ducking Foreman?

[–] re_deus 14 years ago

First of all, after Foreman returned from his 1 year hiatus he boxed for a grand total of ONE year before retiring again!
A rematch within just a year of his comeback would have been difficult to arrange, and Foreman was nowhere near deserving of a shot at the title anyway. Why would he be? He'd been away for over a year since his defeat to Ali and had to work his way back into contention.
There was no way he was a mandatory challenger just because he beat the ageing pair of Frazier and Lyle. And he proved it by getting beat by Jimmy Young which sent him back into retirement.

[–] Squaredealer33 14 years ago

He ducked him, proving who he was and what professional boxing has always been.

[–] zarrod 14 years ago

Ali ducked a rematch with Foreman and fought noob Leon Spinks. He also lost to Norton three times and Foreman got that right in the documentary.

[–] Mr-bravestone 13 years ago

Norton was incredibly underrated. There was a reason Frazier avoided him.

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[–] clintfreestone 8 years ago

You are an illiterate inaccurate imbecile

[–] David_Blue 12 years ago

All valid points.

It seems for some fighters the hype never ends, and for others it never begins. Some are "loved" by the judges and referees, and others are not. (Norton was not, judging by three of what look very much like wins against Ali, resulting in only a single decision in Norton's favor.)

Ali was one of the "teacher's pet fighters, judging by his history of illegally neck-wrestling his opponents, and fact that when he disregarded a referee's warning to knock that off, the referee did nothing.

I think the lesson from Ali's career is that someone may be a teacher's pet, they may benefit from the opponent taking a dive, they may showboat and brag about how pretty they are, they may give every superficial indication of being "not the real thing" - but they may still be genuinely great and incredibly tough. There is no rule that the real tough guys act one way and the pretty boys are something different; it's random. Liston, who seemed scary to the people of his era, took a dive when the fight was not to his liking. Ali avoided a return match with Foreman, but apart from that he was really committed to fight, and he had a chin like an anvil.

[–] Sparky48 10 years ago

Why Didn’t Ali Give George Foreman a Rematch?

On the night when Ali won a controversial decision over Ken Norton after their third fight in September 1976, Ali stated that he would fight Foreman again "for $10 million" and make this his farewell fight. However, those plans changed seven months later after Foreman suffered a defeat to Jimmy Young. After having a "spiritual experience" in the dressing after the fight with Young, Foreman went into his first retirement from boxing and didn't resume fighting again until 10 years later.

George Foreman Believes He Was Drugged Just Before His Fight With Ali!

Don't think I'll touch this one.

Sonny Liston's dive

True. Liston did take a dive in his rematch with Ali. However, the first Liston-Ali fight was legit and Ali, with his tremendous speed and great skill, clearly showed that he was the superior fighter to Liston.

George Foreman getting to his feet at the count of 8 but the ref. calling the fight;

True again. But as with Liston, Ali still showed that he was the superior fighter despite the circumstances, having dominated Foreman throughout much of the fight. Even if Foreman had been allowed to continue that fight, he would have most likely lost because he had already punched himself out. Being counted out most likely spared Foreman from getting hurt.

Ali's outrageous mouth (ex.: calling Liston an ugly bear, and Frazier a gorilla and an Uncle Tom).

Ali used his gab on just about everyone he fought, but it was used for the purpose of fight promotion and psychological banter. (Just as Frazier used banter on Ali by calling him "Clay," which is why Ali called him a "Tom.")
But the truth is that had Ali not used his "outrageous mouth" to promote fights --which was really just showmanship--he and his opponents would have never made the riches off the fight game that they did.

The two shady Leon Spinks fights.

I don't know if I would call these fights "shady," although some believed that Ali threw his first fight with Spinks so that he could win the title for an unprecedented third time. But because there's no evidence to support this, we should just call this conjecture and give Ali the benefit of the doubt.