MovieChat Forums > Twelve (2010) Discussion > Lionel and Jessica...(SPOILER)

Lionel and Jessica...(SPOILER)

posted 13 years ago by mic7440
17 replies | jump to latest

The whole sex deal was a little unrealistic. I mean she offered fellatio which he promptly declined with the remark "that's an expensive blow job"...I agree. She then offered up sex and drove the value up with the good ole tried and true "I'm a virgin" statement to which Lionel replied with a once before the drugs and then again after the drugs counter. At this point she declined and said "no...drugs first and then sex". And he took the deal. So my question is why did he not hold out? I mean he was the only market for the drug and she was clearly hooked to the point of offering her virginity to a gun totin drug dealin brotha from Harlem. If he had stayed firm she would have eventually gave in and accepted the deal because there would have been no other option. Yet he crumbled with almost no negotiating or "dealing" at all.

So not only does he get out-gangsta'd but he then he decides to go up in this (white persons) house in the middle of the night where there's blatant underage teen drinking, drugging, and sexing to not only hand over the drugs but also to "cash in" on the payment while carrying an illegal loaded firearm that had 2 bodies on it. And needless to say the girl was probably underage as well. So either Lionel is the stupidest drug dealer ever or he heard the words sex and virginity within a few words of each other and he immediately became the stupidest drug dealer ever. He risked getting carted of to jail for distributing, statutory rape, and carrying a loaded illegal firearm that he killed 2 people with 2 days ago just to have sex with a "virgin" (ONE time) in exchange for $1,000 worth of drugs...and he ended up getting shot to death...damn, that's an expensive cherry.

[–] arriva 13 years ago

Guy, you are really smart, but, please, don't forget to make paragraphs.

[–] mic7440 13 years ago

Thanks, you are absolutely correct. I edited both posts and it looks a lot better.

[–] dnelsxc 13 years ago

I find your post insightful. I also find your attempt at being "ethnic" with the gun totin' brotha from Harlem bit...quite Humorous. tell me, where exactly did you grow up?

[–] mic7440 13 years ago

Haha, thanks friend. I was not attempting to be ethnic so I apologize if I offended you. I am African American and part Native American. I used that phrase for effect. I just wanted to get the point across to show how ridiculous it would be for Lionel to put himself in that situation. Especially if he's a legit drug dealer.

[–] fredoxv 13 years ago

Having read the book, I think the movie glossed over some stuff a bit. First of all, I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that Jessica agrees to the "Two..." proposal that Lionel throws at her.

Secondly, I don't think that the book really took into account a lot of real-life logic, as it was more of an artistic representation of corrupt, upper-class youth. In that sense, maybe it is a bit flawed. The point was more about what Jessica was willing to sacrifice for the drug - and on a deeper level, to attain some fleeting sense of substance in an otherwise godless, self-serving existence. Lionel was more of a representation of evil and exploitation, the looming malevolence just waiting for everything innocent to break and pervert itself. He wasn't meant to be a real human character with human thoughts.

The movie, didn't do a great job of capturing this overall message - it tried to spin into more of a teen-appealing plot (the overt romance angle was evidence of this, which was only understated in the book). Because of this, the movie ended up hanging in limbo halfway between the message of the novel and some shallow mainstream archetype. Thus, it has become subject to a lot of valid criticisms such as the one that you present.

[–] mic7440 13 years ago

Wow, really good point...thanks!

[–] Xex-Arachnid 13 years ago

These are not good points to consider. If you realize Lionel didn't know anything about anyone in the party and that didn't even mattered because he wasn't afraid of anybody because he'd shoot anybody.

Also, yes, it is quite realistic on how a white girl would do a black man for drugs (among other reasons). There's no common sense here, just reality when you mix narcotics into it. I know what I'm talking about there.

I hate; well it's annoying how people are denial about interracial relationships these days. I hold all races in contempt for this. Get over it already.

[–] mic7440 13 years ago

My main point was that it made no sense for him to accept her counter offer. Where else would she have gotten the drugs? Supply and demand my friend. You ever hear of that? He was the only supplier. She was hooked (hence the high demand). Therefore she would have accepted his offer if he didn't budge. I ONLY mentioned race to show that if she was hooked to the extent that she sleep with a black drug dealer, then she would have accepted his initial offer if he walked off when she counter-offered. Even if he bluffed and she called it he still had nothing to lose. She would have either came up with the money or she would have had sex with him twice like he said. I was not implying that white girls who "do" black men as you so eloquently put it are only doing it for drugs. To imply that is blatantly offensive and reprehensible.

I merely expressed that as a black man he did not fully consider the consequences of offering drugs to a (possibly under-aged as far as he knew) white girl in a white neighborhood, at a loud party in the middle of the night in a house full of teenagers who were all drinking and doing drugs. On top of the fact that he was carrying a gun that had been used to shoot and kill 2 people already. The situation he eagerly put himself in showed that he had no discretion or astuteness at all. It's not about being scared of anyone or the fact that he'd shoot anyone. It's about survival instinct which in his case was non-existent. I mean do you think it was wise for him to roll through her neighborhood with drugs and weapons on him in a huge SUV on huge rims?

And funny you mention that "he wasn't afraid of anybody"...it sure looked to me like he was running when he heard the shots fire, which is why he got shot in the back. Not to mention the fact that he couldn't kill Mike after firing multiple shots at close range...total moron. Read my entire original post, it made absolutely no sense for him to have put himself in that position. Now if those are not good points then I don't know what fairy-tell suburb you were raised in. I grew up around drugs, drug dealers, gangs, you name it. I lived around it, I went to school around it, I been exposed to it my entire life. I know what I'm talking about.

[–] Bananas1988 13 years ago

"as a black man he did not fully consider the consequences of offering drugs to a (possibly under-aged as far as he knew) white girl in a white neighborhood"

So why does it not make sense to you that he accepted the counter offer? Obviously he was willing to show up to the house party with drugs/guns, so why not have sex with her in the house too. She offered-->he counteroffers--> she counteroffers--> he accepts. I understand your point but its not as farfetched of an idea as you think.

[–] mic7440 13 years ago

Both of those facts made it obvious that he was a complete moron. It did not make sense for him to put himself in that situation and it did not make sense for him to accept her counter offer.

No it is not far-fetched as you point out. That is if his price for the drug was exorbitant and it wasn't selling. This was a new highly addictive drug that he was the only supplier of. Nothing replaces money. At the end of the day, even tho she paid him with sex, he would still have had to put the money up to replace the amount of drugs he gave her. Now do you really think 1 sexual encounter is worth $1,000 in cash? Matter of fact, 2 sessions is not really worth $1,000 no matter how much you drive up the value of the sex. She cut his price in half and he gave in. So he might as well sell it for $500 at that point. You don't go back on the price you set when your item is gonna sell anyway. If anything you start low to get them hooked and then drive the price up once they are. She was already hooked. She would have somehow came up with the money or caved in. And if she didn't then someone else would have. To accept her counter-offer is basically letting the hooked consumer call the shots and set the price. And if one consumer can hold out long enough for this idiot to accept a lower price then all of them will. That would crash his market. He'd be the Walmart of drug dealers...haha!!

But hey, maybe it made sense to others. I'm just stating my opinion...let's agree to respectfully disagree.

[–] Romeycash 13 years ago

I ONLY mentioned race to show that if she was hooked to the extent that she sleep with a black drug dealer, then she would have accepted his initial offer if he walked off when she counter-offered.

You are making the assumption that she wouldn't sleep with a black man regardless. True, they were rich, uppity Upper East Siders, but the movie never makes any claims to them having problems with people of other races. There are even two black people in their clique. So, you making a specific reference to him being black just sounds ignorant. The fact that she was willing to give up her virginity to a drug dealer, that was a complete stranger, regardless of his race, was enough to come to the same conclusion that she would have accepted the offer had he walked off.

I know what you're trying to say, but that's why we have so many problems with race to this day b/c people feel the need to inject it into things where it isn't necessary...

[–] mic7440 13 years ago

There were two other black people in their group but they were vastly different from Lionel. Look, let's not get lost in a meaningless phrase I used. I am an African/American male if that makes any difference. I wasn't being racist. However I do think that in this society, even these days, a young girl from high class is more likely to date or have sex with someone of the same race. And the fact that he is a drug dealer from a lower class, while adding to the excitement, would be a turn off. I mean that idea is not too far off from reality. The point of the entire post is that Lionel is a moron.

[–] swansonben 13 years ago

does Emily have a big role as Jessica. from reading here I know shes an addict but does she OD or get clean or just stay on drugs??

[–] mic7440 13 years ago

I don't remember them getting too far into what happens to her...it's kinda like they just left it up in the air.

[–] robjla 13 years ago

The point of the entire post is that Lionel is a moron.

so are you.
Teal'c "in my culture id be well within my rights to dismember you"

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] feezees2001 10 years ago

I remember thinking that they should have shown Lionel going upstairs and the attention, if any, that it drew. How he even got up there with the fiend chick is almost a plot hole.

Itchy. Tasty. TOASTEEEEE!