I like the trailer, but why the stereotype? - Hesher (2011) Discussion

[–] punxgurrl 13 years ago

Because most people who listen to metal are reclusive loners who are depressed, angry, and are @ssholes to everyone around them. It's like people who listen to reggae and sublime and pink floyd are stoners. It's one of those stereotypes that's true, and there's nothing wrong with it.

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[–] Cobra1986 13 years ago

Me and many of my friends are huge metal fans(Metallica has always been my favorite metal band) and yes, we've been angry, we've been depressed. Heavy metal music provides comfort for people who don't have the greatest of lives and have a lot of anger inside them. It's a good healthy thing that's actually saved a lot of people.
Although, the stereotype that we're all stupid and violent is an insulting one.

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[–] chloen1979 13 years ago

Since when did metal heads become so damn sensitive? That's not METAL \m/

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[–] leenux5030 13 years ago

F(x) yeah ! \m/.
I don't care about the stereotyping, even though I sit in a cubicle and do computer programming all day, but still BATTERY IS FOUND IN ME !
And character of Hesher is what every metal head is from inside. I just loved this movie.
Hesher is all about the most important concept of metal and that is:
STOP PREACHING START ROCKING \m/

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[–] Slayer676 13 years ago

"Why are people who are self-recluse loners, depressed, angry, and are *beep* to everyone around them always stereotyped to listen to Metal in media?"

Its because most ordinary people are incredibly stupid!
They blame metal for a lot of bad things that happen, its like metal is the source of all evil in the universe! Like the Columbine high school massacre, they blamed Marilyn Manson for it which is quite stupid. Just like Dee Snider said "So they can say ,AHA So thats why they did it, they were Manson fans". Same thing with Judas Priest, people blamed them for the two idiots who wanted to commit suicide over a song (only one of them succeeded though).. So while in court they played the song (Better by you, Better than me) faster and slower and backwards to see if there are any hidden messages, LOL how ridiculous. They put the blame on Judas Priest when they should have blamed their fvcked up families! (if you dont know what im talking about there is the documentary on youtube called "Dream Deceivers")

Ordinary people dont understand metal, and they fear what they dont understand, and most of the time they mark it as bull$hit just because its too complicated for them (thanks to their stupidity).

I've been listening to metal like 12-13 years now, and sure i've been depressed and angry at some point in my life (like pretty much every human being on the planet), but nothing serious like most stupid people make it look like! Im pretty sure there are justin biber fans who are depressed right now, and Julio Iglesias fans who feel very angry in this moment, and Christina Aguilera fans with low self-esteem who are about to commit suicide (today), duh!

So yeah, if something bad happens, lets blame metal... if someone is angry or depressed or committed suicide, hes a metalhead... Dahmer, Bundy, Gacy, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Saddam Hussein, Captain Hook and the guy who invented windows vista must be metalheads too..:)

HAIL SATAN :D

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[–] WileyDairyGnome 12 years ago

You end your little rant with "HAIL SATAN" and you wonder why people put you in a box.

-- I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been

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[–] scribbledaway 12 years ago

An insulting one that this movie didn't perpetuate, as Hesher is clearly far from stupid. Violent and crude, yeah? But stupid? Far from it.

"...asleep in lifes waiting room."

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[–] grantcb 13 years ago

"It's like people who listen to reggae and sublime and pink floyd are stoners. It's one of those stereotypes that's true, and there's nothing wrong with it."

As a fan of Pink Floyd, I find your label to be mildly insulting despite your proclamation that the stereotype is "true". I have never once smoked marijuana (although I do support it's legalization), but even I must admit that the Pink Floyd/stoner correlation will probably never go away. It's a shame that those who listen to good music can be so easily slapped with the "stoner" label. The same applies for heavy metal listeners. I have a friend who listens to hardly anything outside that genre and exhibits none of the behaviors associated with it. And guess what! He's one of the nicest guys I know! So please, just because a stereotype is prevalent doesn't mean it's "true."

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[–] Snickg78 13 years ago

You listen to Pink Floyd? Go clean your bong, you hippy!

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[–] AlwaysMoneyInBananaStand 13 years ago

I listen to death metal and pink floyd. Check mate.

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[–] nnnoooiiissseee 12 years ago

What, are you like 12? 13 maybe "punxgurrl"? You must have formulated your opinion of "metal heads" from knowing so many of them personally? "Most people who listen to metal are reclusive loners who are depressed, angry, and are @ssholes to everyone around them" you mean kind of like... i dunno, YOU maybe?

Have you ever thought that maybe the hand full of "metal heads" that you have known were just being an @sshole to YOU because you had your NOSE IN THE air the whole time you talked to them? I'm sure that wasn't it at all though because you seem to be the open minded type who understands that most stereotypes are BS anyway...

It's just funny what a ridiculous, juvenile and totally asinine comment that was because you so effortlessly NAILED the whole IRONY thing right on the head... in so few words!

Most "metal heads" that I have known were actually pretty laid back and weren't quite as quick to cast judgement on other people, because they understood the fact that they weren't perfect themselves.

Most all of the people I know of who are "depressed, angry, and are @ssholes to everyone around them" usually aren't "metal heads" but rather: jocks, spoiled yuppies, premadonnas, over-educated college twits and religious fanatics. You know, people who look down their nose at the world because they think that their "status" in or "society" gives them the RIGHT to act like a DOUCHE.

And WHO the hell even fits the bill of being a "metal head" these days anyway? Last Christmas, I went to a Twisted Sister concert and most of the people in the crowd were on freaking medicare! I saw Testament and was one of the last ones left with long hair because mine hasn't all fallen out yet! It's kind of a broad term these days and basically means anyone who doesn't listen to country or AUTOTUNE.

The whole "Hesher" character was a stereotype of a "metal head" that you would find in the '80s. If you do see anyone like that now, they're going to be at least in their mid '30s. Pretty much anyone younger than that is "metalcore", "a scene kid" or "not an emo at all!" (or whatever the hell) & listens to "My Chemical Romance" and has giant holes in their ears.

Now that I think of it though, maybe you're right and I was wrong. Maybe "most people who listen to metal ARE reclusive loners who ARE depressed, angry, and are @ssholes to everyone around them" because after all, when you're at work all day, it's hard to be "popular". Most of the people around them these days are between 1-17 years old, pretend to be the very DUMBEST of the black stereotypes and can't download an MP3 off of Amazon unless it's been mixed with autotune first -- which is why they treat "everyone around them" like an @sshole (especially when "everyone around them" needs their diapers changed, refuses to do their homework, and has problems speaking in complete sentences.

My bad. As you were... ;)

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[–] BleekersPorkSword 13 years ago

Heavy metal music provides comfort for people who don't have the greatest of lives and have a lot of anger inside them. It's a good healthy thing that's actually saved a lot of people.
Although, the stereotype that we're all stupid and violent is an insulting one.

THANK YOU!

James Coughlin: If we get jammed up, we're holding court on the street.

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[–] Cobra1986 13 years ago

Ha ha you're welcome buddy :)

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] badmofo6662004 13 years ago

LOL. That's like saying people who listen to the Blues are wallowing in depression. Like all good music, Metal is a celebration of emotion and the human condition. It's an art form. I'd hate to hear the sterile music you listen to...

And yes, there have been studies. Statistically, people who listen to Rock/Metal are more likely to: "have low self-esteem, are creative, not hard-working, not outgoing, gentle, and at ease."

So, saying people who listen to metal are in a, "culture of pointless aggression" is completely baseless. Statistically, they're more likely to be gentle, and at ease.

People who listen to Blues are more likely to: "have high self-esteem, are creative, outgoing, gentle and at ease."

Which is kind of weird, because the main genres I listen to are Metal, Rock, and Blues.

Personally, one thing I noticed from working in factories over the summers while I was completing my B.S. is that a very high percentage of factory workers listen to Metal. Coincidence? Also, a high percentage of people in IT seem to listen to Metal. From my anecdotal evidence, it seems that people who work in fields dominated by men are more likely to listen to metal.

Also, the two most relevant paragraphs from the article:

"North noted that classical and heavy metal music both attracts listeners with similar personalities but dissimilar ages. Younger members of the personality group apparently go for heavy metal, while their older counterparts prefer classical. However, both have the same basic motivation: to hear something dramatic and theatrical, a shared “love of the grandiose,” he said.

“The general public has held a stereotype of heavy metal fans being suicidally depressed and being a danger to themselves and society in general,” he said, “but they are quite delicate things. Aside from their age, they’re basically the same kind of person [as a classical music fan]. Lots of heavy metal fans will tell you that they also like Wagner, because it’s big, loud and brash. There’s also a sense of theater in both heavy rock and classical music, and I suspect that this is what they’re really trying to get at when they listen.”

Source: http://psychcentral.com/lib/2008/preferred-music-style-is-tied-to-personality/

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[–] PiperAtTheGatesOfDawn5 13 years ago

Apparently people don't really actually listen to lyrics in the metal genre. Metal= Stupid? What about Iron Maiden? The majority of their lyrics are about history, social issues and literature? How is that unintelligent? I don't get! Black Sabbath? Dio? Hardly have unintelligent lyrics...People take a pass look at what the genre looks like and assume that they are not intelligent.

Fav bands- Rush, Pink Floyd, the Who, the Ramones, Muse, Iron Maiden, and the White Stripes

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[–] MovieAlien 13 years ago

Why are people who listen to Metal always stereotyped in media as these self-recluse loners who are depressed, angry, and are *beep* to everyone around them? Its stupid.

Stupid yes, but it's not nearly as bad as the rap music "stereotype", and I use "stereotype" with rap very loosely. To say rap/hip hop has nothing to do with the high murder rate in inner cities, children born of young mothers and dead/incarcerated fathers, the glorification of stealing/committing crimes, et al, would be actionable denial, and it's rather ironic that many rap music fans/artists eschew the negative traits of their music and actually endorse the alienation of rock/metal music.

The only reason rock/metal takes more heat from the media than rap music is because fear and vanity sells. The "fear" element suits both liberals and conservatives. The vanity "element" is the fact it's more interesting to exploit a long-haired headbanger than a thug. After all, thugs are too common these days to exploit.

Bottom line, the metalhead stereotype is > the rap fan stereotype.

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[–] jsw22289 13 years ago

Rap doesn't have anything to do the things you've mentioned, or rather, rap, itself, isn't the cause of these things like you make it out to be.... the things you've mentioned, plus many more misfortunes ARE the CAUSE OF RAP. so you, my friend, are misguided, and you have it the other way around.

"Pain Transforms The Sensitive Into Cynics"

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[–] MovieAlien 13 years ago

the things you've mentioned, plus many more misfortunes ARE the CAUSE OF RAP.

Sorry, but playing the "guilt card" doesn't get one anywhere. Nobody forces "rap artists" to create the music they do, they just create it. They create it because they like creating it and because it has a niche market. Rappers are by no means desperate individuals - they are rich, well-produced and got to their current statuses by the very "street life" they encourage on their troubled fan base.

The rap music message is simple: earn enough "street cred" to be respected, keep it real, "get rich or die tryin'", get hyphy, and you'll be a "laaaaid back gangsta" just like me some day...fo shizzle.

I mean, really...when was the last time anyone heard rap music about cooperating with police investigations, getting a good education (in turn, getting a good job), and overall encouragement about being an upstanding person ... ?

Whoops, my bad, that wouldn't be "keepin it' real, yo."

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[–] jsw22289 13 years ago

you're missing my point... all that sh*t you mentioned was around before rap music but you claim that it's caused by rap. it's just a matter of which came first. I'm not "playing" any card, i'm just stating the facts. You, on the other hand, start out by discrediting one stereotype and condoning another. jeez... all stereotypes do have some small relevance grounded in reality but for the most part, all these stereotypes are just over exaggerated tellings from somebody talking out of their a** about something they probably only ever saw through the looking glass. just an over exaggeration.

get over your self

"Pain Transforms The Sensitive Into Cynics"

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[–] MovieAlien 13 years ago

all that sh*t you mentioned was around before rap music

So what? Rap music perpetuates it. And you completely ignored the question I mentioned in my last reply: When was the last time you heard a rap song about cooperating with authorities, getting a good education, getting a good job, being an overall upstanding person, and (most of all) taking personal responsibility?

Your silly defense of rap music is a case in point of the last thing I mentioned above: simply put, it's not our fault, it's "the man's" fault. Alas, a philosophy of winners.

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[–] jsw22289 13 years ago

i ignored it because it has no relevance to the point i'm trying to make, which, by the way, is more about all stereotypes opposed to just this one you seem to believe so much in. but, whatever man i'm over it, neither one of us are bringing anything new to this after our previous post so i'm done. if you want to pick and choose certain stereotypes in which you condemn and then turn around and completely condone another one then by all means, go right ahead... i was just trying to point out the hypocrisy is all.

"Pain Transforms The Sensitive Into Cynics"

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[–] signoraomicidi 13 years ago

I'm a few months late to the party here, but just wanted to tell you that you're absolutely right. MovieAlien is having a hard time expressing the way he really feels: that he's scared of Black people.

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[–] paddy215 13 years ago

"When was the last time you heard a rap song about cooperating with authorities, getting a good education, getting a good job, being an overall upstanding person, and (most of all) taking personal responsibility?"

Don't really want to get involved in this debate/argument but just out of interest I'd like to ask, whens the last time you heard any song about those things?

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[–] BurningBuddhist 13 years ago

Thanks for saving me a couple minutes.

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[–] activista 11 years ago

@MovieAllen

Like the other poster said, rap came into being as a result of young black people dealing with conditions in the inner city,and simply expressing how they felt and what they saw around them. To say that it "caused" those problems is ridiculous,since they predate rap by a couple of hundred years. And,FYI, not ALL rapper are rich, or even make it that big to begin with. In fact, some rappers (like Jay-Z) credit rap with keeping them going into a life of crime to begin with. I grew up during the first golden age of hip-hop (in which there were songs about staying in school,learning history,black pride and other things. Unfortunately, when rap went mainstream and got co-opted, positive conscious rap got kicked off the airwaves. Most of the rap you hear on the radio now just seems to be about only partying, making money, and watching strippers dance.

Positive rap songs you can only hear on public radio stations or on stations throughout the internet, which is really too bad. But rap serve the same purpose as metal does---an outlet for self-expression through music for frustrated young folks.

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[–] slacr1 13 years ago

i love metal. more metal than any of this ish being portrayed here, and i dont think im anywhere near an a-hole, or depressed (from tunes). my being an a-hole and depression come from other things, mos def not my music.
i also happen to like drum n bass, minimal, positive/underground hip-hop stuff like that as well.
country makes me an a-hole and depressed though.
and yes, i AM stoned right now.

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[–] StevenCha 13 years ago

I will be quiet if someone has done a study on this and will prove a correlation between metalheads and aggression, bad manners, or depression. Must see the results in SPSS or no credit. Frequency distributions and T-tests needed. (Note: If depression, you must also do an analysis of those who listen to music frequently as well)

A correlational study still wouldn't prove a thing. A t-test wouldn't be enough either, since they're only done on small samples.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] kodrury 13 years ago

Because it would make no sence for the character in the movie to enjoy Coldplay. Although it might add a little humor to it if he did. When did everyone get so sensitive? If someone would play me in a movie, a preppy southern honky, I'm would not be rockin out to Pantera in my soccer mom SUV.

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[–] parisel 13 years ago

Be quiet anyway.

I guess it's like looking at clouds. You see one thing and I see another. Peace.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] MovieAlien 13 years ago

Metal helps RELIEVE aggression actually.

But most people don't realize that. They assume - based on an "image" brought forth by mainstream media - that metal is angry, screamy, hate mongering, Satan worship-encouraging noise, while turning a blind eye to the urban decay-causing, crime-glorifying, racism-sustaining mystique of rap/hip hop music.

I've said it before - the metal "stereotype" is much more benign than the rap music NON-stereotype.

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[–] DanceOnCLE 13 years ago

^^^ Nothing more than a biased fool.

There are positive feedback loops created by any social phenomena.

I.e. Anger, aggression, pain, suffering, demonic influences, psychological issues (metal) attract a certain type of person that will respond to that. Sometimes it acts as a way to safely express these interests, sometimes it encourages these attributes in people. Often both, encouraging a person to act/feel/think a certain way while giving them an outlet for it. This can definitely spill over into other areas of there social, financial and professional lives.

I.e. Gang crime, drug dealing, money chasing, anti-authority, women objectifying (rap) does the exact same thing.

Both are clearly negative stereotypes to the general public and arguing one is worse than the other is nothing more than a biased point of view.

Both are popular because these attributes/lifestyles existed before they came about and both can promote the lifestyle/image they portray.

It also vital to remember that stereotypes are, in general, stupid. In a large group of people a wide spectrum of lifestyles, personalities and interests will always be found. Some people may not have any attributes related to the stereotype, but like a music simply because that's what they happened to grow up listening too, or had friend's that were into it or a million other possible reasons.

Finally anyone who is very strongly influenced so much that they actually act out the stereotypes promoted by the music is mainly because they would've been that type of person anyway. The music simply gives them a group to identify with and a series of stereotypical ways to act out their own personality. A gangster probably would've been a drug dealer without rap, a satanic loner would've been a creep without metal.

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[–] daweller 13 years ago

All metal-heads worship Satan.

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[–] Pierke1977 13 years ago

No we are not , in fact most of them are atheists or agnotics . Since we do not believe in fairy tales and we enjoy the fact that "decent" religious people get their panties twisted if we act like that we perpetuate the cliché.

I won't deny metal has a certain percentage of beavis and butthead morons but most metalheads i have met the last 20 years are intelligent , honoust people with the heart at the right place. Sure we are sometimes depressed but wouldn't you if you realised in what for society we are living in .

The violence , the black , the booz and drugs , etc is mostly to keep others out. if you really make an effort you ll realise most of them are sensitive creative people who are convinced you only get a few decades before you are wormfood so we live in the moment and take what we can get before we are forced back to conformity.

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