MovieChat Forums > Mad Max: Fury Road (2015) Discussion > If this is a feminist movie answer me th...

If this is a feminist movie answer me this?


Why did Max beat Furiosa in the fight they had?

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Because feminism needs male oppression and victimhood, so it can survive it heroically, rise from the ground and beat the male oppressor, dominate him and use him as a tripod during the shooting lesson it is about to give to him...

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Because feminism needs male oppression and victimhood, so it can survive it heroically, rise from the ground and beat the male oppressor, dominate him and use him as a tripod during the shooting lesson it is about to give to him...
Yeah. What kind of action hero lets another character take the shot!

http://screenmusings.org/movie/dvd/From-Russia-With-Love/pages/From-Russia-With-Love-206.htm

It was her rifle in this case. You know how that works, right? Or Max should have brought his own?
I'm motivated by my Duty.

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Great post.

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Not to mention...she FAILS. Another point completely overlooked. She didn't make the shot either! She got lucky and hit the light, which blinded the Bullet Farmer, but she did NOT make the shot. The concept of it being a "shooting lesson" is reaching. If that was what they were trying to achieve, why didn't she get a perfect shot?

So, Max STILL had to finish the job! If this is about her stepping up to the plate when he could not, it's actually a terrible example. He failed, she failed, she didn't show him up in any way. And he still swooped in and saved the day with killing them all offscreen.

If anything, isn't the message here that you still need a man to finish a job? 

What a lovely day!

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Not to mention...she FAILS. Another point completely overlooked. She didn't make the shot either! She got lucky and hit the light, which blinded the Bullet Farmer, but she did NOT make the shot. The concept of it being a "shooting lesson" is reaching. If that was what they were trying to achieve, why didn't she get a perfect shot?
I definitely disagree on this plot point.

Clearly Max and then Furiosa were shooting to put the light out and avoid detection. Trying to kill any one person on The Peacemaker or divining the Bullet Farmer is there is an impossibility.

She made the shot.

What no man Can give ya. And none Can take away.

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I'm poking fun at the logic here of the scene being a "shooting lesson", the argument of the other post.

I'm pointing out the logic in the concept that this scene is feminist simply because she makes the shot when Max does not. It's not like she made a perfect headshot or something unrealistic, of which then maybe it can be seen as a "shooting lesson". Hence the sarcasm with:

So, Max STILL had to finish the job! If this is about her stepping up to the plate when he could not, it's actually a terrible example. He failed, she failed, she didn't show him up in any way. And he still swooped in and saved the day with killing them all offscreen.

If anything, isn't the message here that you still need a man to finish a job?


I'm not literally saying Furiosa failed, lol. I think the scene is a great one for her and Max.

What a lovely day!

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Okay, okay, things can come across pretty serious in print.

To Bullet Farmer: IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES!

What no man Can give ya. And none Can take away.

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Sarcasm is super hard to get across in print, and worse then that, I'm bad at it to begin with!

What a lovely day!

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I'll throw feminism a bone and say that Fury Road is feminist in the way the modern movement WANTS you to think of feminism. It's more egalitarian than feminist, though.

Feminists hide behind the dictionary definition when people criticize their movement, which is a weak, heavily flawed tactic that conveniently lets them get away with not addressing said criticisms.

As much as I love this film and find it to be a masterpiece, there really isn't anything new here as far Furiosa is concerned. So when people praise her as this revolutionary female hero I just can't help but get annoyed at how people ignore the dozens of other female heroes we've had just to push a narrative. She's a good character performed well, but not anything we haven't seen before: Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Hermione Granger, The Bride, Clarice Starling, Marge Gunderson from Fargo, Princess Leia, Rey, Marion Ravenwood, Katniss Everdeen, Marida (from Brave), Coraline, Ana and Elsa from Frozen, Most Disney female characters, Rita from Edge of Tomorrow, the two women of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, the girls from Death Proof, Hanna, Trinity, Laurie Strode, Sidney Prescott, Nancy Thompson, Black Widow, Selene from Underworld, Mama from Dredd, Alice from the Resident Evil films, the mother from The Babadook....and this is just a list off the top of my head of popular and/or well received mainstream films (This list doesn't even go into smaller budget, indie films). All of these characters and more are well loved by critics, fans and general audiences.

So yeah, Furiosa is nothing new.

So, back to why I don't truly consider this film feminist. It's too fair. The film revolves around issues that are considered feminist to the core: The exploitation and abuse of women. But this is where the feminists who praise this film as some personal anthem AND the idiot haters who see it to be propaganda both fall flat. Immortan Joe isn't just abusing women. He's abusing everybody. He may keep a handful of beautiful women as his sex slaves...but he also keeps a legion of men as his own personal brainwashed army. Not only that, he keeps the poor masses of men, women and children in his palm by withholding the worlds most precious resource from them. He's an equal opportunity user and abuser. He doesn't make a special case of only hurting women.

"But but but...the film has an all woman warrior tribe named after VAGINA'S in it! How is this NOT feminist propaganda!?!?!" Well, the film doesn't exactly portray the Vulvalini as pure, perfect women does it? Sure, they slag off men...but look where they are: Wasting away in the sand because they let their distrust and hatred of men rule their lives. Their outlook is expressly shown as WRONG in the film. Most of them get killed pretty damn quick in the final chase too. This film hardly shows preferential treatment to women. If they worked harder and put more trust in men...maybe they wouldn't be stuck in the dunes slowing dying off.

If it weren't for Max and Nux...all of the women in the film would be dead. Hell, Furiosa alone would have died on multiple occasions if it wasn't for Max. For a film that supposed to be this "rah rah go WOMEN!" empowerment trip, the women sure do seem to need the help of us icky old men a lot.

This film promotes EQUALITY. It promotes working TOGETHER for a better world. To me, this does not reflect today's feminism.

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[deleted]

Good post. Questions, though:

Fury Road is NOT feminist because it's too much like "modern feminism"? Whatever version or wave of feminism Fury Road prescribes to, wouldn't it still be under the umbrella of "feminist"?

And 2, very good of you pointing out its egalitarian message.

But, to play devil's advocate, it's only the men that need to stop exploiting people, stop abusing women, and be more helpful like Nux and Max. The movie certainly does promote "equality" in terms of, say, "let's work together to stop the bad guy." But isn't there also an underlying message that kinda/sorta tips the moral high ground to the ladies?

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But isn't there also an underlying message that kinda/sorta tips the moral high ground to the ladies?


I don't see it. I mean, a female was a villain in the third film. I don't think Miller was making any sort of grand statement about men being evil.

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Oh, i didn't mean the entire franchise. In fact, Road Warrior seemed to have an egalitarian aspect without making a point of it.

Fury Road, though: "Who killed the world?" "Warlord Junior Gonna be ugly" "It could be a girl." A little bit?

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It does make sense for the story that Joe is a human trafficker and abuser of women. And Furiosa returns to a group of women who distrust men, based on experience.

Weaker to have a mixed group, repeat the commune type of ROAD WARRIOR.

What no man Can give ya. And none Can take away.

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Fury Road, though: "Who killed the world?" "Warlord Junior Gonna be ugly" "It could be a girl." A little bit?


I don't see the "who killed the world?" line as the Brides saying "it was men thats who!." I took it as the Brides saying "Men like YOU killed the world. And I say this as purely factual and without political implication: It is mostly men who run the world, and if the world were to ever go to *beep* ala Mad Max...it would be those men's faults. Plenty of films of this ilk have an "evil war mongering men want to rule/ruin the world" trope.

The "it could be a girl" thing, imo, was supposed to be seen as wrongheaded. Like I highlighted in my first post, the Vulvalina aren't portrayed in a purely positive light. They have their own little micro arc of learning how to trust the world of men to survive.

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The "it could be a girl" thing, imo, was supposed to be seen as wrongheaded. Like I highlighted in my first post, the Vulvalina aren't portrayed in a purely positive light.


Yes, you did. It was a good post.

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Yes, you did. It was a good post.


Thanks! 

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Whatever version or wave of feminism Fury Road prescribes to, wouldn't it still be under the umbrella of "feminist"?


Fair point. I guess you could still call it feminist. But in my own personal opinion/bias, viewing art through a feminist lens is an outdated and unneeded action.

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Max beat Furiosa because the "reality" is that Max is simply the better fighter.

BRAINLESS feminists would have you believe women will always beat men in everything, just like ISIS would have you believe Muslims are superior to everyone else.

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It's an egalitarian movie with some feminist tones. Ultimately without the two males alongside with them helping, the females would never have reached their objective. By the same token had Max stole the rig and there been no killswitch, he'd never have made it far alone either. Had he gone to the canyon he would have been attacked and found it probably impossible to fend off all the Rock Riders by himself. Had he gone elsewhere, he'd surely have been attacked by others in huge numbers.

There's no way Furiosa could beat Max in a 'straight up fight', which is why she dived for the gun. The film doesn't insult us with this idea Furiosa was just so incredibly powerful she could beat 2 guys while being physically smaller as well as disabled. She gives them a run for their money, which is good, but for her to have gone up against a feral-like Max and wiped the floor with him would have been ridiculous, after we'd been shown the sort of odds and violence Max was used to dealing with.

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It's amusing seeing so many people STILL trying to defend this film as not being associated with the big bad and scary F-word.

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The opposite is also amusing.

What no man Can give ya. And none Can take away.

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"It’s a sort of sneaky feminism. When you say the premise—a woman warrior escapes with female sex slaves—that doesn’t necessarily sound like a blockbuster. But because it’s an action film, guys will see it."

"One day, we won’t have to sneak it. One day we will be overt. One of the great things about this film is that when you have women on your side, you have a better chance of surviving. It’s clear that we’re all served better when women are equal."

:)

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2 things:

Its cool how every line is under the microscope. If the old vulvalini suggests"it could be a girl" she maybe just wanted to say sth comforting to the dag (who in her eyes was a rare young fresh creature, sth like her daughter). That sentence made sense in
the scene. Its neverever a hint that a girl is better than a warloard jr. I mean come on, the mere depiction of the ugliness of the men in the movie (except the two heros nux and max (ever noticed the similarity of those two names????is it just me... n(m) u(a) x(x!) Ahaha) is enough.
It could be just a well told story. Sometimes ppl stick out when they have to. All is not lost.
Thats it.



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Because feminists have seen it as a female empowerment movie. So has the director. That counts as feminist, right?

And because of the misleading title: Max is not the main character, Furiousa is.

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Well I definitely see Max as the MAIN CHARACTER. Furiosa is not that.

What no man Can give ya. And none Can take away.

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"A woman rebels against a tyrannical ruler in postapocalyptic Australia in search for her home-land with the help of a group of female prisoners, a psychotic worshipper, and a drifter named Max."

Even the synopsis shunts Max aside.

Ghost dancers slay together and you're just in my grave

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What's misleading is the synopsis, not the title.

From the moment they meet and after, Max is the title character, he has the most screen time, and he's clearly in charge.

- Max wins the initial fight against Furiosa (and the wives).
- Max is in charge (by force) on the War Rig.
- Max won't even give Furiosa his name when asked.
- Max drives the War Rig through the canyon and the Rock Riders.
- Max makes the decision not to turn back to "save" Angharad. Furiosa supports that.
- Max takes two shots at the spotlight on the Ripsaw--still in control and without a word spoken or a request from Furiosa, Max hands over the gun for her to take the shot (with her own rifle). Furiosa waits for his decision, does not propose any idea on her own.
- Max tells Furiosa what to do if he doesn't come back from the Ripsaw: keep moving. Furiosa follows that instruction.
- Max has the plan to save them all by going back to the Citadel, the real Green Place. Furiosa's plan would take them to their doom. She visibly resists, but agrees when the group supports it.
- Max battles Joe's army by actually leaving the War Rig and perpetrating some incredible actions across the People Eater's tanker, Doof Warrior's platform, and back to the War Rig.
- Max steps forward to save the mortally wounded Furiosa, using his police training.
- Max returns Furiosa, the wives, and the surviving Many Mothers to the Citadel then leaves them to make his own way as he declared earlier.

Furiosa is a capable, interesting character that gets a lot of focus in the film.

But she's not the focus over Max and surely not THE main character over him. She's also not Max's equal, though I agree there are feminist themes and strong (but not perfect) women strung through the film.

What no man Can give ya. And none Can take away.

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I'm not an expert on this (lapsed English major) and it's probably been discussed elsewhere in more depth, but I think you can say that Max is the Main Character because we see most of the movie through his eyes, but Furiosa is the Protagonist because the story arc is mainly hers.

Furiosa starts the plot in motion because she wants something (escape); the action of the movie is all about the pursuit of this thing; and her character arc is all about her change in response to the failure of the quest.

Max, yeah, we see most of the movie through his eyes, and he's often the one making decisions, but it's not his quest and he doesn't really change much over the course of the story. He survives, he assists, he moves on, but it's not his story.

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Well-said

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I'd say they're both main characters, but for different reasons. As you said, Max is the guy whose perspective we're seeing the movie from, while Furiosa is the one with the firm motivation and character arc, and is ultimately the "hero" by the end.

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I'd say Furiosa's arc is more minor and slows from the time of her breakdown over the Green Place no longer existing. She loses direction or is at least misdirected, ready to set out with the group across the salt and likely to their doom.

That's the time Max is actually stepping forward to complete his character arc for the film. He resists, then resolves to convince them to follow his own plan. That's against his instincts and his loner ethos. He has the supplies and mobility to go his own way but he makes the conscious decision to help them above his own interests.

Max follows through as Furiosa diminishes as the events play out. Safely through the mountains and moving across the desert to the Citadel, she's dying.

That sparks Max into action, he's suddenly almost frantically reverting to his police officer training (I'm so sorry...hold this...keep her conscious), drawing on what he once was.

When he reaches the end of his training measures, the real breakthrough happens: he says his name out loud, a last effort to save Furiosa.

For a raging feral that started out with the single focus to survive, that's quite a hero's journey. I wouldn't give it short shrift.

What no man Can give ya. And none Can take away.

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