Any responses?
**** SPOILERS ****
Also, why is the director SUCH a misogynist that the "torture" of men involves wimmin debasing themselves (smearing their vaginal discharge on his face, farting at him, and otherwise showing more skin then the man being "tortured," and the villain who's comeuppance is SOOOOO tame in contrast to anything that happens to ANY womyn unlucky enough to have accepted a role in this film...
You are simply trolling now. I answered your questions in a previous email. I'm not a misogynist at all! Why can't women degrade men in a nasty way? Why does it have to be the other way around? Women are powerful people and you, making them victims, is debasing their sex! Not my movies.
"How about 68 and I owe you 1?" Street Trash
Best response ever.
share I am NOT trolling... You seem to refuse to address what I actually say, reduce it to the easiest argument of the type you think I've advanced, and then insult me as a persyn, and / or claim that I am guiltier of whatever I accuse YOU of...
Honestly, you feel that having a womyn, completely nude, taking her vaginal juice at the behest of a pimp and smearing on the face of a fully-dressed male is MORE empowering than, say, letting them keep their clothes on, and using, say, Leroy's feces on the character's face (and NOT something considered "gross" because it came out of a prostitute's vagina).
I'll stop "trolling" when you respond to ANY of the questions I asked in the e-mail. Saying "I know you are but what am I" is just childish and skirts very important issues.
Why don't you, for instance, ANSWER THE QUESTION IN THE SUBJECT OF THIS E-MAIL? Also, the mere desire to NOT be a misogynist does not mean that you are NOT a misogynist!
Honestly, I think you are the wrong type of person to watch these types of films. You have issues and it's everyone else who has to answer for it. I thought he put that scene in there just in case you wanted to "rub one out" you know a little "5 on 1"..... Who cares why it's there, It's a movie, that's IT! Let it go, or are you trying to be the "peoples champion"? I really can't believe someone that seems to be as uptight as you really looked at this movie and it's description and thought "wow, this really looks like the deep insightful piece of cinema genius I need to round out my day" or was it "Yes! This movie is going to finally validate all the complaints I've been making for years about MIN and how they have ruined everything and they are the reason nobody will ever take womyn/wimmin seriously ever unless we take control and enslave the oppressors and only use them for breeding purposes until..." sorry, guess I got a little carried away but you understand how all of this looks? You can't roll up in here as a minority (and I mean minority in opinion only) and post this stuff and think you are going to get a bunch of supportive responses by people that look at things through your eyes because you're not....Most people seem to understand this is a movie, PERIOD! No political, economic, sexual or religious statement here.
If you are that sensitive to this type of material then don't watch it!
Sometimes being too far left makes you just as bad, if not worse, as being too far right.
Have a nice day!
Really, being too far left is worse than being too far right?
A film that depicts rape, especially if it is supposedly not to get *beep* off but exacerbate the piquancy of the "revenge," should not contain something to get people off. Juxtaposing sexual violence with titillation or comedy is *beep* plain and simple. If you ask any female-bodied / female identified individuals (those most frequently the victim of rape), I am sure the idea that dudes get to giggle or get off moments after characters are anally raped (or raped with foreign objects) would make them uncomfortable. That matters to me. I actually care about people...
What you are doing now is making a generalization.
Also here is a tip IF YOU DON'T LIKE MOVIES ABOUT RAPE AND GORE DON'T WATCH MOVIES ABOUT RAPE AND GORE.
I can appreciate (not "like"... are you starting to see the problem, "liking" movies "about rape and gore") such films, like, say, I Spit on your Grave, which does NOTHING to sexualize ANY of the violent encounters in the film, nor does the film contain ONE scene meant to arouse... So, too, with the original "Last House on the Left" (which does contain comedic elements which I found inappropriate, but at least they do not make light of the violent scenes in the film). "Ms. 45" (my favorite of this genre) lets ALL of the wimmin KEEP THEIR CLOTHES ON, and is actually empowering in its character development (defense gives way to offense) and playing with whether or not these men deserve to die... *beep*, even "Irreversible" has enough respect for its audience and actors to give them lots of meaty development before completely destroying them. These other films contain talent and RESPECT FOR THE SUBJECT MATTER, which Nicholson lacks, being no more than a misogynist with no interest in making himself a better man in a *beep* male dominated world (and, Ryan, wanting sex offenders to be punished more harshly than they are in society is NOT a progressive, feminist way of dealing with the problem, but after your poor attempts to rationalize a naked womyn as wiping her vaginal juice on a fully-clothed man's face as empowering to the womyn, I know you just don't "get it")...
The goal should not be for ME to stop watching your masturbatory boy's club trash, but to stop you from thinking it's okay to make such fare...
The female lead of last house on the left is naked within the opening scene and i don't get what you hope to archive by making these comments (it's not going to stop Nicholson making the films and it's not going to stop me from watching them).
Also if you respect women so much why cant you spell the name of their gender correctly.
Maybe something will "click" (most men start out *beep* not all of them stay *beep* and Nicholson might make a film, say, in which ONLY MEN are graphically violated, in which there is NO COMEDY or TITILLATION, in which there are wimmin that do NOT look like porn survivors, nor wimmin that are "fat bitches" who get killed casually by the film's protagonists (Jehovah's witness)...
Yeah, she's naked in the shower in the beginning of Last House... At no point is she farting, douching, etc. She "pisses" herself, but Craven (less misogynist than Nicholson) uses this to exacerbate how violated she is. Nicholson would find a way to have a womyn graphically piss on some fully-clothed male, who is REALLY suffering because some "filthy whore" is pissing on him!!!
Let me try and answer your questions and general comments you've made on these boards. Let me address the "why"...why do I think it's okay to depict comedic rape? I can't help it, I try to shoot straight and always end up twisting my scenes into demented, comedic trash. It's the way I am and the way I write, the way I direct. Is it right or wrong to depict such comedic rape? It's somewhere in the middle. I think you need to walk the fence and observe both sides of a subject to truly grasp its meaning. And its meaning is always subjective and personal. Do men and women get off to rape scenes? I would say less than more. "roughies" or rape pornos that actually had XXX scenes with real body parts, unlike my movies, which are fake, were popular in the 70's...those movies have gone away and aren't popular at all. The majority of the earths population don't take to other people's suffering well...and that's a good thing. Why do I do what I do? I enjoy making trashy movies that depict women as heroes. Not victims. The women always have the last laugh in my movies. I love this and although you don't like how the women are depicted in my movies, I won't change the way that I make movies just because you don't approve. You mention "I Spit on Your Grave", to me, that movie is far more exploitative than my own...they made money off that...got rich off of a rape movie. I don't make money from my movies. I do it because I enjoy the process. I don't do it for the money. And if I did, I would make far more mainstream fare. You mentioned "Cannibal Holocaust" and how you grew up watching that and other nasty, trashy movies. Did the animal violence not bother you? Were you void of emotion when the real, living animals lost their lives so someone else could make money? That disturbs me that you would spend all this time and effort fighting for the cause of fictional women getting fictionally raped onscreen and not spend your time lobbying for the rights of helpless animals. I do take offense to you repeatedly calling me a "misogynist". My movies are not a reflection of me as a person...I'm 1000% opposite of being a misogynist. Anyone who knows the real me, knows this and knows that my movie persona is strictly a persona, not real. As an artist I can be whatever I want to be. I believe in the right to choose, hence my movie "Hanger"...it's a right to choose film with right to choose themes. Ryan Nicholson, the real life person is not Ryan Nicholson the film-maker. You may not understand the concept of "fiction". I've always made it point to never blur the lines between fantasy and reality. I'm not desensitized and the evening news saddens me to no end with the barbaric acts that are inflicted on one another. Anyways, I'm sure you'll say that I've skirted the issue or that I haven't answered your questions but the reality is, it's only a fictional movie. Real life rape and sex abuse survivors have my sympathy and I'll lobby against sex offenders any day of week. It's not a lame justification for my movies, it's how I really feel. I'm human. I'm caring and loving. That's me. The Ryan that you don't is a persona. He makes exploitation movies and isn't obligated to anyone or anything. He's a character similar to Santa Claus, giving presents to a select few, knowing whose been naughty or nice.
I hope that puts your trolling to an end. If not, I'll have to start speaking in tongues as that may be the only language you understand.
"How about 68 and I owe you 1?" Street Trash
Thanks for responding to me! Seriously...
I see where you're trying to come from, I just think there's a lot of *beep* involved... How do wimmin get the last laugh in, say, Hanger, in which **** SPOILERS **** the female survivor (whose SOLE purpose in the film has been to masturbate, get violated in her sleep, be lusted after by a racist stereotype and finally get raped and/or killed by Hanger for saying the word "Baby") **** SPOILERS OVER **** ? How is that at all the last laugh?
If you made roughies, I would take you to task, but the days of "Hardgore," "Water Power" and "Forced Entry" are (thankfully) over... Thanks in no small part to the Wimmin's Fire Brigade (which is how THEY spelled it), who burnt to the ground several video stores in your country that sold such fare... Had you killed animals for your films (and I believe you DID, if you had ANY non-vegan craft services for the actors), I'd take you to task on it (though if you ate them afterward, like Deodato, I could only be as mad as I am when ANYONE eats meat)... I am asking you to just admit what you are, which I guess you kind of did...
I just want you to own up to what you are: You ARE a misogynist, because someone who cares about survivors of sexual violence wouldn't just (or even at all) lobby AGAINST sex offenders (as doing so just gives bro-dude males the opportunity to get off on venting their pervasive rage yet again, under the guise of doing it for the survivors), they would work to, say, use their creativity (which you have a lot of, I'll never deny that, and that is why I am so upset) to craft a truly disturbing anti-rape vehicle, with NO racist Asian stereotypes, with NO female masturbation, with NO "heroes" bashing a hapless prostitute TO DEATH in a car door, calling her "bitch" as she dies (and please don't tell me that this somehow was empowering to the topless victim), NO prolonged scenes of wimmin farting, douching or lounging about with tampon strings hanging out of them... Come on, be real. It is so much easier to just admit why you REALLY do these things, rather than pretend that it is somehow more feminist and progressive to depict these things thus than not...
PS: If you were not into making money, you'd challenge your audience, rather than feed their sick urges, which are more akin to those of the rapist than, say, people who don't want to see ANY "fun" or "comedy" in their rape-themed films. You'd also donate a portion of your income from them (surely SOMEONE buys your stuff) for DNA testing for rape cases, or something to that effect.
No one is going to take you seriously if you keep misspelling the word "woman".
If you continue to misspell that word i will have to assume you are 12 years old and/or American.
Ryan IS several things: A director, artist, caring father, teacher, listener and one of the best friends I have ever had but a misogynist? I think not!
Not only have I let him into my house but I trust this man, I trust him with my daughters, my wife and some of my own personal secrets.
At this point you have not only frustrated the holy "what-not" out of me but I have come to realize that you will never be happy no matter what and there seems to be no end in sight to this whole "yes you are,no I'm not, yes you do,no I don't, yes you are,no I'm not, yes you do,no I don't,". I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the world is not going to issue you a formal apology for all the wrong that has been done to you.
You have repeatedly called Ryan a "misogynist" despite his rebuttals and, for the life of me, I can't figure out exactly who it was that died and made you "King/Queen turd on the mountain of crap". Who are you to judge my friend without ever having met the man? What makes you so "correct" and "without wrong doings" that you can sit and tell others who and what they are supposed to do? You have no right and at this point you are no better than any racist or sexist I have had the displeasure of meeting! I'm sure they all thought/think they're right too despite everyone else telling them they are wrong.
I know that this discussion will never end until you get the answer you want, no matter if it's true of not, because in your world there is only one truth.... Yours! So listen up loud and clear THE WORLD IS NOT FAIR and it never will be despite you or anyone else protesting it! No one owes you anything and the second you realize Ryan is entitled to make whatever the hell he want's, with or without your approval, art is subjective, peripheral and sometimes nonsense or without any statement or meaning at all then perhaps we can all go about our happy lives (clearly I am speaking for myself here).
We could, in turn, accuse you of Misandry and I'm sure that you feel I am mistaken in my opinion of you and your intentions and my summation couldn't be farther from the truth... Maybe you know how Ryan and those close to him feel when we hear someone making those kind of statements about him. You keep pressing for Ryan to admit he's a misogynist (some would argue that misanthropist might be a better term. LOL) without realizing that it might actually be an offensive thing to call someone. I would think if anyone needed to apologize or "come clean" it would be you.
It does boggle the mind though how someone, that seems so well spoken and intelligent, can be so stupid, opinionated, one sided and blind all at the same time? I don't know what else to say. You didn't care for Ryan's movies and think they are a direct reflection of his personality and beliefs, we get it. You are wrong, but we get it. So if you want to really make a difference go after the "Guys" at HBO for "Sex in the city" because, on the Misogyny scale, plotdigger films has a long way to go before it could ever equal that!
Know the reel enemy!
I'm no better than any racist or sexist? Do you REALLY mean that? Because I verbally take someone to task for making films with themes and images that greatly upset people (and it is a feminist spelling of the word, to make the gender autonomous, and not a mere modification of the male gender... if your beloved can make films that make a rollicking good time out of rape, sure I can take back language to make the average [not ONLY, but average] victim of rape feel better), I am no better than someone that would, say, pressure their girlfriend into anal sex, beat their wives and drag people of color behind trucks? THIS is what racism and violence are, and they happen in reality. People really DO kill prostitutes (and probably even say *beep* things like "Whose a freakshow now, bitch?" when doing so), and those people are probably MORE like the people who giggle at Gutterballs than those that, say, DON'T enjoy depictions of EXTREME, irredeemable violence against wimmin (and don't give me that revenge garbage, when Leroy has NO comeuppence in this film! Maybe your production was rushed, but that's NO excuse, especially when tackling this subject matter)... These are assertions; I've no statistics, but if you are HONEST and not defensive (and, granted, I've put you all on the defensive by attacking your art and characters), I KNOW you will FEEL where I am coming from, especially if you have daughters (who may or may not be the victims of gender / sexual violence one day in this sad, "unfair" world)... If the world does suck as we all know it to, and if we truly love wimmin more than we love the sick parts of ourselves, folk need us to STOP the violence sometimes, and create spaces that feel safer than this sick reality. Alas...
Finally, I am sorry to say, but just as "racists," in this day and age, are more THOUGHTLESS than they are violent or vehement, misogynists are NOT all active abusers and rapists. Often, they just marginalize wimmin, treat them like objects and find funny their pain, their differences and their expressions of sexuality, if they do not conform to male ideas of what wimmin should be. THIS is the misogyny of which I accused Ryan; the fact that he does NOT see how that "torture" scene of the "dirty Leroy" is MORE disrespectful to the womyn on screen than that seeming scumbag Alastair Gamble (as an adult, I would NOT perform in such a film, but I guess that's me... Payback being "a bitch of a whore," only degrades wimmin with language, not the intended victim of said "payback")...
The desire to NOT be a misogynist, or denial of one's misogyny, does not mean that one is NOT a misogynist. Be adult, please... Next, in your attempts to save face, you'll claim (as you already have) that it is somehow MORE disrespectful to wimmin, Asians, mentally challenged folk, etc. to NOT make these films than to do so, and that I am the problem, not you. Most wimmin I know would disagree...
I can focus on a "worse" case of misogyny like Sex and the City (maybe if the show had more occasions of wimmin being called *beep* and bitches, and had them getting raped, brutally killed and farting while naked more, the show would become progressive and champion feminist philosophy... Are you for real????), or I can ask YOU to examine yourselves, and take responsibility for what YOU, not me or HBO, put out there, in reference to wimmin...
Next time, why not make a film where men get raped (and not in the obscured way that occurs in Hanger), and have to process their pain and revenge. it is something you can know about much more than the "empowering vengeance" you enact on behalf (cough, cough) of wimmin.
I guess this is the last I'll say.
We have all said our piece I suppose. Just a couple things need to be corrected here:
1. Alastair is not the one getting the "dirty Leroy".
2. I never mentioned violence when I compared you to a racist or sexist, I was making a point that when you swing TOO far to either direction you become extreme, blinded, self righteous and no better than those you oppose.
3. I think you've overlooked the fact that these women were not forced to do the things they did in this film. Nobody was held at gunpoint, badgered or coerced in any way, as a matter of fact, they were all very excited to do their scenes and had fun doing them, so why not try to educate young women in another forum because all you're doing here is arguing with men and you know that will get you nowhere.
And last but not least.... The "man" in the word woman comes from the word mannaz meaning human and has nothing to do with sex so I have never understood this either.
Good luck.......
I honestly think at this point in the flame war that the OP won't be pleased no matter what anyone says.
Well I'm leaving this conversation with the knowledge that the OP is an ass.
I have not seen the movie, do not plan to after what I have read, but you seem to be rather self righteous.
for the best stuff ever go to www.nanas-place.com
What's wrong with being "self-righteous" in reference to not wanting wimmin to be TOTALLY degraded in films? Why is it that those who would depict the most messed-up things NEVER have to defend themselves, but those who call them out on it are so maligned?
I shouldn't have to be the one to justify NOT wanting to get-off on rape-themed films? All of you males that feel like you need not justify your desires to watch such garbage, and don't feel that you need to question why you like looking at these things, have your priorities SERIOUSLY skewed...
No mam, you are just making too many assumptions and evaluations based on your opinion and not fact. I don't think the majority of people who wanted to see this film did so because they "get to see some rape!". I think we all know there are films out there that cater to those types of tastes.
Like I've said before you should go after the "wimmin" that star in and also MAKE these types of film and not one guy that made 1 or 2 movies that have offended your delicate sensibilities....
Here's what I think is wrong with being "self righteous"....
Self righteous - confident of one's own righteousness, esp. when smugly moralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others. Having or showing an exaggerated awareness of one's own virtuousness or rights
(would not want to be called any of these)
Synonyms: affected, canting, complacent, egotistical, goody-goody, holier-than-thou, hypocritical, noble, pharisaic, pietistic, pious, preachy, sanctimonious, self-satisfied, superior
(don't mind these at all)
Antonyms: caring, humble, thoughtful, understanding
Why did the majority of people go to see this film?
Why do YOU get to say who I should go after? Whether or not I "go after," say, Extreme Associates or Max Hardcore is irrelevant to whether or not you take responsibility for what you put in people's minds, via your art... They do with it what they will, and I NEVER said that "x causes y," I just say that x (films sexualizing rape and lightening its impact with over-the-top, UNREALISTIC death scenes and screwball porno-comedy) certainly makes it HARDER for those of us that want men to behave in a more respectful manner toward wimmin and queer-folk to reach them, so content are they to indulge urges and conceptions that lead more to violence than they do its opposite... Repression leads to messed-up behavior, but so does irresponsible indulgence in the objectification of bodies male AND female...
I will not communicate on YOUR terms (gender-conforming and heteronormative standards of communication have reigned forever and are enforced by law... time for a change): Whether or not I have statistics from some biased study on hand, you still know, in your heart, and whether or not you B*llsh!t me, if what I say has some validity to it... WHAT I SAY, NOT WHAT EVERYONE ELSE HAS SAID. You rarely address my words (which are carefully chosen), only the perceived / projected implication behind them, and your assumptions about my character...
The dictionary can say whatever it wants, I know what matters to me. Some people are "self-righteous" about chattle slavery and the holocaust never happening again, and, you know what, I think that kind of "intolerance" is actually caring, humble, thoughtful, understand, etc.
Thanks for the chat and happy holidays.
shareI am a wimmin. I also feel that a movie is just a movie and if you do not like it you should not watch it You are self righteous because you ppear to believe that you are the know all be all and that your opinion and tastes are better than anyone else's. No I do not agree with what goes on in the movie, degradation of any kind as well as abortion makes me not want to see the film so I won't, but I am not saying that no one else should.
for the best stuff ever go to www.nanas-place.com
[deleted]
I stay away from these boards, since y'all made it clear that you're not interested in growing up and getting healthy (one cannot force someone to treat others with respect), but since you saw fit to goad me:
Ninjas-r-cool: I assume (and would be willing to put money on the fact) that you are male-bodied and male identified. If you acknowledge that differences exist in the world, you would have to acknowledge that a womyn's experience of this world might be a little different than that of a man. Since men have, in general, the greater share of physical, legal and social power, it is a very different experience when the traditionally disempowered are further disempowered (in the case of this film, a prostitute being debased by her abusive pimp and a murderer of prostitutes), then when the traditionally empowered are, for a change, disempowered (as in "Baise Moi," when a gun is inserted into the rectum of a random man by two femail rape survivors). If you don't intuitively and / or rationally perceive a difference in the circumstances, I don't know what more I can do to make you understand that it is NOT possible to degrade men, since they are the one's who do the degrading (just as you aren't bullying the bully when, after you can no longer take his campaign of abuse, you finally break his teeth)...
I assume, in all I say above, that you are really engaging me because some part of you wants to heal. If you're just being a smart-a$$, I feel bad for you and your cretinish glee at being willfully ignorant.
Y'all *beep* are posting in a trolling thread. Anyone who refers to woman and never spells woman right is obviously some lame little loser who thinks he lurked ebaums enough.
TUB 4:20