MovieChat Forums > The Final (2011) Discussion > Should the law make considerations to st...

Should the law make considerations to students who shoot their bullies?


I did some research on school shootings and bullying after seeing this movie and discovered some interesting trends. Statistics indicate that 2/3 of all school shooters are motivated by bullying and a great majority of these individuals get life sentences. This is quite reassuring on one hand given the recent up-surgence of school shootings in modern times, however there are some facts here that unsettle me.

“In at least twenty-four of the school shootings between 1979 and 2009, perpetrators said they were responding to what they saw as academic or disciplinary injustices inflicted against them.” (Klein, 2012, 153) Many of these individuals therefore don’t lash out as a form of tribute to violence, but as a need to right past wrongs and prevent further acts of abuse against them. Therefore adult negligence can be one of the most influential factors toward violence in school whether fatal or nonfatal.

When I researched further into the area of bullying, I found that the majority of school teachers are tolerant and even allow bullying in their classrooms; “‘over two-thirds of students believe that schools respond poorly to bullying, with a high percentage of students believing that adult help is infrequent and ineffective.’ In fact, 25 percent of teachers ‘see nothing wrong with bullying or putdowns,’ and these teachers intervene in just 4 percent of bullying incidents according to one study.” (Klein, 2012, 132)

Some teachers pick favorites among the "popular students" and are less often to scold these individuals than others in regards to bullying. “In fact, studies in American schools reveal that most school administrators perceive that less mainstream students (e.g., ‘geeks’ and ‘Goths’) are violent, even though the football players (‘jocks’) are the ones who are more likely to beat up the less conventional students.” (Klein, 2012, 135) The primary reason this is the case is that many school faculty members see bullying as a rite of passage; a natural way for students to grow up. However, there is nothing natural about bullying; many people have committed suicide because of it resulting in a high body count, and this doesn't even include school shootings.

Some shooters like Evan Ramsey and Eric Hainstock were bullied and then specifically targeted ONLY their abusers for death (or people who knowingly allowed them to be abused for the above reasons), as opposed to killing random people like most other people in their category. I'm not saying that they should be let off, killing is wrong, but I feel that the law should give some consideration to these people and be more lenient in regards to sentencing; after all, if these people really tried I'm sure they could have killed a LOT of innocent bystanders in addition to their targets if they wanted.

School shooters that target bullies are victims as well, they have been broken in a way that makes them want death (many of them seek suicide and mean to do so after their attack), their way of thinking is this: If I'm going to commit suicide, I might as well take the people who did this to me with me as well. When you consider the fact that bullies make fun of people to such an extent that they even laugh at a suicide victim's funeral (that they directly caused), it can make anyone wonder whether these individuals had a point.

Worse, many of the "bullies" goad the victims on, many school shooters even warned people of what they were going to do but no one took them seriously, while others said straight to their faces to actually do it and then laughed at them when they couldn't saying that they didn't have the balls to do it. And then after the shooting, everyone acts all sad and sympathetic to the parents of these bullies/now-victims while the entire time, they have literally been asking for it.

The reason the US legal system grants no exceptions in regards to sentencing is because we NEED to set a rule and maintain order showing people that school shootings are NOT tolerated. While I agree with this stance, I also firmly believe that just because we want to impose order on our schools there is no reason why we can't be reasonable to ALL parties. I am NOT saying we should be lenient to all school shooters as the majority of these guilty individuals are disturbed people who enjoy killing children for their own purposes.

The point of my argument is to ask whether the fact that some school shooters act out in a sense of misguided justice be a factor in the sentencing of these individuals to mental care facilities as opposed to prison. Just because their number is small in comparison to the sick psychopaths who also belong to their category doesn't mean they should just automatically be stereotyped with them; I believe that many of them can be rehabilitated, that has to count for something.

reply

Life sentences? Most of the major ones I've heard the shooters end up dead.

I don't know about special consideration or whatever but I know a number of them did it to get famous so there images and names should be withheld from the public to prevent anyone else from doing it for those reasons.

http://dawnofthedeadfanfiction.bravehost.com/index.html

reply

It would depend on whether or not the bullying was as severe as was shown in this movie. However, I am not sure that there is such a thing as bullies who are as out of control as Bradley, Bernard and their friends were and I am not sure it actually happens in high school in America today.

Does it, to your knowledge?

reply

Yeah, look up Evan Ramsey and Eric Hainstock.

reply

It's called standing your ground.

reply

I think it should be taken into consideration, but only if the shooters went after actual bullies and not innocent people. Someone abuses you for years and no one wants to stop it? Hell yes, send his ass to Hell, one way.

reply

I agree to a point.
I can certainly understand why some kids end up snapping. I really don't know why so many school shooters just kill indiscriminately as opposed to just going after those that torment them. I'm sure many want the notoriety.

But depending on the circumstances, who they shoot and just how bad they've been bullied, I would argue that what the shooters were put through that led to crime should most definitely be taken into consideration as mitigating circumstances.

But one innocent person gets hurt.... then all bets are off.

reply

I don't see how murder is ever acceptable, regardless of who the victim is.

Death Awaits (Horror forum)
http://w11.zetaboards.com/Death_Awaits/index/

reply

No one is saying it should be acceptable, we're just saying there should be lower penalties for those who are trapped in certain situations in comparison to those who kill random people for sport.

reply

You're never trapped in a situation where you HAVE to kill someone. I've been bullied. I never killed anyone. I never had to kill anyone.

Likewise, the kids in this movie COULD have continued on with their lives instead of torturing the bullies. They weren't trapped in a situation where they had no choice

Death Awaits (Horror forum)
http://w11.zetaboards.com/Death_Awaits/index/

reply

[deleted]

When it is easy to devalue others, and one has had a lifetime of perceived injustices and rejection, murder might seem like a natural choice. If one were to accept that these kids had been unjustly harassed, the scale of their violence was out of all proportion to the injury they had suffered. Their aim was not to right a wrong, but to create as much pain and suffering as possible.

reply

I believe each case must be treated completely individually and circumstances must be looked upon. However, I do not believe anything other than a "minimum" security prison is needed. You end a life, you need to pay...

School shootings are definitely not tolerated. There is just sometimes nothing we can do about them after the fact and...yeah.

Shooting bullies is a selfish act and I think the act of shooting always goes beyond bullying, unless it's sexual bullying (rape). These people had NO reason to do these to these kids. It's a movie, but they could have discreetly videotaped and it and the kids would have been expelled or strongly dealt with.

Bullying like Emily's I think would be one of the only ones that should have mental institution considered and then mandated decades-long weekly therapy.

reply