Agree, on top, I don't believe that Mr. Redford, such a well known cinematic American Icon and great filmmaker, who,instead, of drinking like others, spends his latter years, by promoting, creating, and, initially, even financing, the most eventful, successful, and creative Films Festival, at Sundance, by giving and with huge success, a voice, to all Independent, mostly American Cinema, and,to those trying to save this Country's culture and morals,as he is doing (considering what the Studio's offer these days, one of our most celebrated Arts, may as well,be blamed for a rather sad decadence,then!) while, he's still attempting to direct personal films,maybe, not always "inspired"("Lions for Lambs" was not a good movie,I will give you that, but, even the best Director on earth,ever, never had all winners!)but, always,managing to truly keep faithful to his Classic style,and higher learning, which he always seems happy and passionate,engaged and proud,to share with the audiences, and, with great belief! This is one characteristic that nobody on East or West could deny to him: the presence of loyalty,in all of his works! Think about his best films!
Even the most controversial themes (like the excellent "Ordinary People", a movie that never ages) are respected,accepted and explained, never dismissed.
But,that is a talent,and, not a revolting skill!
He also directed very well some excellent epic movies always giving great observation and morals to the Country,so i believe, he, and, the extraordinary cast of this film,composed by some of the best Actors ,ever, deserves respect and attention!
When i saw it, i heard all people saying,at the end, and, despite their personal points of view, that it was indeed, and,in any case, a very good movie,first of all, solid and deep,and,that, again, despite its political opinion,if it truly shows one, at the very end, since i didn't feel that way,at all,by the way,yet a movie that always tries very hard, and, eventually succeeds to be authentic,never less than compelling,without ever judging,but trying to "understand" people,and, History,or at least, a slice of it,if you'd rather!
We may not perceive how sometime the people who whether are at least standing for some wrong, or some great ideals, are for sure, still preferable to those, with no ideals,whatsoever! See, look, at this youth, today,not everyone, of course, I am not saying that, but, certainly, a large part of it,who seems always playing video games, or living a virtual reality,ending often taking drugs,trying to experience what's not even there, since, there's nothing they can truly have passion for! Those are, at their best, some individuals who just "accept" whatever, other very celebrated, and, quite horrifying word, so of common use,these days (my mother would have slapped me if i had answered "Whatever!" to her!),and, think simply how many using "Whatever" just could find "revolting" even things they wouldn't know,because of laziness, or, since they are growing up, without even being able to carry on with a simple conversation! I am not saying you gotta be a terrorist, to express your soul, not certainly not to love our Country, either! But, some opinion, it is important, and, some leverage on a more layered personality may be even brought to some of these guys, just, by watching more movies like "The Company You Keep",movies that are trying to develop a form of force,whether accept, passively everything we are fed with, or to create our own individuality, to get to know, to be able to say no or yes, first, to something we don't even know what it is or what it was or represented! It was called discerning, distinguishing what we feel that is right or wrong, while, yet being compassionate, and, sympathetic for all citizens,bringing our good example to even those ones who happened to have made wrong choices, and, without hate or prejudice,just building up some real strength and choice, some interest in how truly different we can be, yet,that is our force, excelling at diverse activities,ultimately,trying to be great at our jobs, at least, for the love of a better society, for higher values, than those of watching fake reality TV just teaching,on the subtext, that truly what's to be blamed,maybe actually great fun, and a short cut to the easy life,so that these young people watching always stuff without virtue nor foundations, would or could never obviously get even close to such opportunities,anyways,in real life, then what do they choose? To reject learning the truth, but to count on a World made of lies, and, truly murderous lies,eventually they'd start using substances, or closing their minds into a World,that does not exist, and, in this case,a World, that is not what America was supposed to be! And, never will be, i hope!
I believe "The Company you Keep" talks about this, too!
Especially,when confronting different generations,and,their mistakes,then and now,and, what to learn from mistakes, since, nobody has ever learned anything from mere success,if not to be lazy! Then, Mr. Redford could be very much one of those directors, who taking million of dollars from the people, and, living an amoral life,could make senseless movies, like many others have ended up making,exactly just for the money, without even respecting their Careers! Instead, at 75, he still rather puts himself out there, in deep waters, talking about something that deeply signed America (mainly the Vietnam's War's protests and diverse heartfelt people's opinions,breaking up our Country almost in two,,while,people at the power, like Mr. Nixon, were certainly not showing the most honest of the examples, either to us nor the World),this movie is telling with an open mind, a very complex story, dense of different thoughts, provocative feelings, and,incredibly painful situations: life is tough, we cannot pretend it isn't, and, then ending up to medicate ourselves,without even truly wanting to know for real what happens out of our little circles!
Choices may not always be the most perfect,you know, people do make mistakes by trying, but, they are, at least,trying to take a stand,and, in this particular case, a stand taken against something you do agree with, and, it's, as you say, our freedom of speech and opinion, which should be celebrated,not taken for granted,as most of us should never be taking for granted happiness either, as we often do, without considering to what extent we may be jeopardizing our own lives,and not only ours, but those of others,ending up like someone we would have never really wanted to (see the role played by lovely Julie Christie, as the most controversial,as definitely becoming the most insightful of all characters,too,in this movie!),yet, so blinded by our most selfish opinions,to even refuse to recognize the obvious, to an extreme extent,such a turning point,that will either bring us to reason, or leave us lost forever, without even knowing whom we have been throughout!
Realizing more often, instead, that we are those people we truly are,often because of the great rights we were given by birth,first off,and then, than what we could make of this great freedom,it is indeed key to believe in always trying to be in the right, to always fight for justice,never wanting to compromise to corruption! And, here it comes out, how lucky we should feel,toward a lot we were given in this Country,and,how ashamed we should be, if we were not to be making a good use of it! What right do we have to pretend all that, without work, or honesty? With illegal activities,maybe? No, certainly, this movie never suggests that, for a single moment! At the contrary!
Again,i don't think Mr. Redford's movie can be called "such a revolting idea"! That is only a provocative, disrespectful quote, toward a great filmmaker, and all the great stars who obviously believed in this film.
Representing a case, it doesn't define the Country we live in, but, discussing it, it puts us to consider one of its aspects! To focus on what's happened, and, on how to change it for the best,while, not hiding it!
And, for that,and more, i admire Mr. Redford's, and,the very simple, yet basic values he discusses in his film,which he displays, by the way, through a rather phenomenal and impressive quality of work into character's development, such a rare pick,these days, in movies, all computerized, without soul or justice, just all filled with fantasy or dreams that we know so well they never could happen, nor we'd be any happier with any of them coming true, just having the feeling to be living in some abstract oblivion,which could be easily rejected by a 7 years old, with some guts, instead, of agreeing to be listening just to the trends of a corrupted society,which pushes to an awkward, often undeserved opulence, and, to even more regrettable customs,such as a complete absence of integrity, while, making believe that some malice may buy us some happiness,and,on top, in this age, completely "governed and operated" by computers,when, even over the phone, seems impossible to talk to a real human being with some feelings, and,some personality!
Most of all,"The Company You Keep" is a fine simple film, without lies or embellishments! You don't believe the Weather Underground should be "seen" this way? Which way? What are you saying? The book may be different, at times, here we are talking about the movie!
You are just saying that,because, in fact, you haven't watched the movie:
The ex protesters are not represented at all in the same way,they are not recognized ever as heroes,they are never glorified: everyone, and each one of them, brings a very distressed human experience, they did pay for what they hadn't done right, and they are aware of it,each one of those people has his/her own story to tell, and, believe me, there's a lot to learn from some of this very fine dialog, from some of those challenged lives,a lot more to learn about morals and loyalty,than in some of those seemingly "not revolting, mild TV programs", infested with lies and injustice,there's a lot more to hear and think, in this movie, about being a proud American, than in many other shows you may think "not revolting" ,but, just amusing, while they may be poisoning the existence of many of those you know them, as well, could not even know any better!
What you are saying so bluntly, and, stubborn,it is not about this movie,which you have not watched,nor you'd never wanna watch, labeling it as a "revolting" idea!
Why can you think it is ok to say it is a revolting idea,then? That is censoring. Worse than that, actually: yes,since believing in something we don't even know, like Germans did,at the times of Nazi's, it is not called censorship, but,abuse at its highest levels!
To put a NO, prior to even having seen something,and,actually not just a NO, but, a disrespectful word, it is not part of our Constitution! I swear, if, after even watching this very fine, intense film, you'd still feel revolted,you may be,at least for me, still entitled to your opinion,but then,also and quite certainly, you must be a very insensitive human being,as well, and so,someone not worth of much attention,at this point, anyway!
Sorry.
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GaelicLass
12 years ago
Icons76, you replied to me but I think you are referring to someone else so please reply to correct person or address it to them. Also, you may want to cut down on the words, I just scanned over it since it is too long and not enough paragraph breaks, but I guess English isn't your first language, but you do write it very well otherwise. Some good points and I agree.
"Sometimes you have to know when to put a cork in it."
~Frasier
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srousecc
12 years ago
I want to thank you for your long winded pontification. I also wish to thank you for comparing my opinion of a subject of a move to being someone who wishes to censor the film. Please read my posting, I in no way said we need to censor anything. I feel that the idea itself is just a awful idea for a film.
If you thought that my comment about this revolting film was disrespectful to Mr. Redford you better stop reading....You saw Redford being daring and brave I saw something completely different. I will agree that Ordinary People is a very good film....BUT Scorsese should have won best director that year for Raging Bull.
I have now seen the film and my opinion still stands
I aggree that Certain films strive for real importance, fueling debates about important political and social issues, unafraid to take a controversial or unpopular stance. Robert Redford certainly thinks that his new film, The Company You Keep, is one such picture. He couldn’t be further off the mark. The Company You Keep is a staggeringly dull effort with such a flawed concept, idiotic writing and poor construction that if anyone other than Redford had tried to make it, they would’ve been laughed out of the studio.
The film also shies away from its own political implications and ideas. Every time the film seems ready to make a real statement, it backs off, explaining away the characters actions or providing convenient plot holes for them to fall through. Twists that are supposed to feel revelatory seem advertised miles in advance. Why make a so called political thriller if you’re going to suck all the politics out of it?
And in the end…well, what? At least really bad movies make you feel something, even if it’s just anger and a burning need to argue for a refund. The Company You Keep isn’t bad in such an outright sense; rather it’s just a completely unnecessary, totally benign and un-involving work. When you’re aiming for political significance and importance, that’s a real dagger.
But in conclusion I think that its a bit nutty to say that since I think the film is bad I am for censorship, abuse, and and am I am insensitive. Please also remember America is about ideas and my idea just happens to be different.
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Icons76
12 years ago
I was not trying to pontificate!
But yea, i still find the use of "revolting", as a description concerning the idea to make this heartfelt movie, as way too strong, and, actually, at the very end, also completely taking everyone away from your real subtext!
Of course, you are entitled to have your own idea!
And, you, absolutely, gain kudos, for having watched a movie coming from an idea you'd disagree with,at first! Well, congratulations!
Much ado about nothing, then!
If you just had used a different term (not revolting, but, maybe, just something else more on the same style,that you then adopted with all the rest of your later post's and tone),I don't believe anyone, me included, would have tried to attack you or call you insensitive!
And especially if you (like you eventually ended up -very unexpectedly for us!- doing) even had told us that you'd have gone to see the movie and then going to judge it, as you have, or if you'd rather,let's just say then, expressed your opinions and ideas on its regard!
Nothing, nothing wrong with that! Truly!
But, even in your latter post,you had proclaimed a complete refusal to even watch the movie, in order to be sure to say what you already were thinking about it!
But then , instead,you went, after all,and, as a good citizen, expressed an opinion, your own opinion on it, and, i am sure nobody has anything against that! Right?
Not even me.. Well, maybe, i actually do have something against this all game..
If a game this is, after all, i am not even sure, anymore, as anyone could be,since you changed ideas, turned things up and around, so many times, before, even going to see it, something you had just said you would have never done, so strong was the repulsion you felt for the whole thing.. Uhm..
Then, just, because all this rumor seemed to have caused a stir of comments and of ideas, that are certainly legit and validated by your freedom of speech, and, then of finding a movie either good or not so good, or useless, as you just said, i say this stinks, my dear! Just a little.. like i said all the good intentions are there at the end, but,just to proof what, at the end??
Oh, please do not let me say it, you must know it very well, much better than anyone else here..
Now, since you started this post almost on a rage, then, after you got all the attention you wanted to have, you slowly and progressively have taken a much more "politically correct" turn,looking great even to me, your stronger detractor, and, did all what you'd said you were not willing to do, then, forgive me, i may be wrong, but, i have the suspect that, in a way, you were trying just to make believe everyone (and please do excuse me for my out spoken way of describing things, I don't mean no disrespect, and, in fact, i truly thank you to no end for having watched the movie, and, having taken a very different stand towards the all conversation than the one you had at the beginning: however, since you've watched the movie now,you saw that the film did not take parts, it might have bored you,but that I guess we all knew already,since you never disclosed from the get go your real intentions,but you certainly this way have achieved even more cleverly your plan to boycott this film, just by wanting to put such a bad,negative impression over something you hadn't even seen, and so revolting you would have never wanted to see! Now at least you know the end of the film, and, so you understand, that, even there,in the plot, i mean, maybe there was a doubt,there was an implication, but it ends up being only a supposed mystification,an error,since, some wrong identities had been mixed and involved! And, then, Mr. Redford did not make any epitaph to terrorism or to some "spoiled brats"(as you defined them) protesting against the Vietnam war ,and, in a moment in History,that revealed to many, who were not completely blindfolded,one of the most painful realizations,that is,that in America,nothing really was or had been what it had seemed and what they had been made believed, what they have been taught by their parents to believe in, was all untrue, not from the people, but, from the Country's corrupted politics! So, i may wanna add - and rightly so- since let me tell you, i was a child, and i hadn't been sheltered, my grandparents tried to make me stay, to separate me even, from my family,but, since, i saw my mother and father, fighting for me, as much as they thought they were indeed fighting for their Country's sense of justice and integrity, watching at them with the despair yet the love and the sense of right that only a 6/7 years old kid could have had,seeing them so very involved at the time,and,always with a reason,a true ideal for what, at least, they believed, it could have helped to make a much more perfect World, than the one we have ended up with,but,unfortunately afterwards, i also saw their disillusions, the falling of a hope, of a higher ideal of Constitutional values and learning,and,the failure started to destroying them slowly, killing any light from the beautiful, all American faces of a couple of 24 years old,both with 2 master degrees, each one, and 3 sons, already! And then,i saw the disillusion, and, the sense of loss, and of being lost in a World without hope, that eventually brought my father to medicating himself against the pain,he was feeling in every single moment of his life, and just with those same drugs,he'd taken when coming back from Vietnam,fighting a real bad back injury,the same damned narcotics made of opium and heroin,that, eventually, also killed him,in fact.However i must tell you, i never doubted, for a moment, my father! He was not a lazy person or a bandit, my dad was someone who had lost every hope at 25,someone who had fought for us,yes even for you, and,all of a sudden, while still a boy, felt nobody wanted to even listen to him, or his reasons,his "ideas"... so he made an immense decision,without all the drama, these post's have been instead capable to create, over facts that, whether you may agree with me or not, you should be careful calling revolting,especially,since you don't seem to know them well enough, or even a bit,as far as i am concerned!Yes, because i was a fearful child, not knowing where we would have been the following week, whether i could see my father or not, afraid of loosing my adored parents, over their youth being consumed and devoured by events that were not, believe me, What the press or Tv news (all bought up by the higher spheres, dont tell me you haven't seen Network..) made you maybe believe true,was not! And a few very few here in this Country facts were just linked to a dozen or even less of manic people who ended up trashing any hope for a change, just, because they didn't care for one, those were just borderline criminals, marrying a cause instead of another, but, next to those bandits, there was a whole generation, such as Daniel Rosemberg or others,like my dad and my mother,his gorgeous girl,who fought for the World, and, certainly, they weren't spoiled brats, either, believe me! Think that once they realized the insignificance of their ideals and protests,once, even the Nixon's huge scandal over his laughable administration, was even well covered up,showing one of the highest levels of corruption, ever, ever achieved in any other constitutional and democratic Country in the World, they, my parents, along with a very few other friends, very quietly, without embarrassing anyone, decided to leave their Country, with us, their kids,and,we were American Expatriates, for almost over 2 decades,but,no, not like those ones on the French Riviera, believe me, God only knows what we went through! But, that is our story, not yours!
So since Redford'd made, according to you, in this film,a story based upon a bunch of criminals,using a bunch of very wrong statements all together against our Country, at least, this is how you initially depicted the film, obviously trying to get some bad publicity to it, while, afterwards, you actually behaved like any other intelligent person should be doing in America,going to watch an important film, for themselves, for yourself!
But, must tell you that i have some doubts on the clarity of these posts and, most of all, on your in depth self defense,hey, you just did it all on your own: first,almost with threats,then, once addressed by others, you did what you were supposed to do, saw the movie, and trashed it, and,with the ultimate stab, by saying that i was the aggressor in all this, and, you had only retained the right to have an idea! BRAVO!
You have got your idea, and, that's completely fine! But, also,both to respect my parents, and their disjointed lives, and to respect my Idea of the film, I can only tell you, that what you are saying about the movie, has any right to be thought, and by you, in primis, but, there have been a lot of very reputable people like all the main US critics, writing excellent reviews of a movie,that was only not understood by this late 20's web generated and victimized generation of little critics, who cannot relate to a movie, aside from its pace..
Clearly, that for me is a limitation, but,i do accept your opinions, however here below i am attaching some of the "opinions" of the greatest International Film critics, ever, among them, Richard Corliss (Time), Manhola Dargis (NY Times),Kenneth Turan (LA TIMES, Hollywood Reporter),and many, many others, who have seen and judged very important films throughout the years,and not, only vibrant crap,and, fast paced action a la Michael Bay or such..
Here there's a sum up from Wikipedia:
Award Year Category Recipient Result
Venice Film Festival[12] 2012 Giovani Giurati del Vittorio Veneto Film Festival Award Robert Redford Won
Open Prize Won
Reception
In early reviews from the Venice Film Festival, Variety called the film an "unabashedly" heartfelt but extremely classic and competent tribute to 1960s idealism ... in its stolid, old-fashioned way, it satisfies an appetite, especially among mature auds, for dialogue- and character-driven drama that gets into issues without getting too bogged down in verbiage. ... There is something undeniably more than compelling,here, perhaps even romantic, about America's '60s radicals and the compromises they did or didn't make".[13] The Hollywood Reporter praised the cast, especially, the formidable Julie Christie, as Mimi Lurie, the key role,at the end, and, Sarandon and Marling,as well,while termed the film "a tense yet admirably restrained moral thriller ... Adapted with clarity and intelligence ... and lent distinguishing heft by its roster of screen veterans, this gripping drama provides an absorbing reflection on the courage and cost of dissent. ... While it provides for some passing commentary on the journalistic process and the slow death of print media, making the ambitious reporter such a driving figure perhaps mutes the focus a little. ... The storytelling is nonetheless very robust and thematically rich".[4] Time wrote: "With a welcome mixture of juice and grit, the movie dramatizes the lingering conundrums of young people in the time of the Vietnam morass. ... [The film] is streaked with melancholy: a disappointment that the second American Revolution never came. ... Nonetheless, this is a pulsating drama of a man who goes on an intricate, often interior journey to outrun his past... All the scenes between 2 classic Icons of the movies such as Mr. Redford and Julie Christie are glowing of a perfect, internal,layered radiance, and, by astounding performances, rarely these days we happen to see in a movie.."[14] After seeing the film in Toronto, NPR's younger critic Linda Holmes called the story "undercooked" and thought that "it all seems to have been a lot of noise and running for nothing... still she also couldn't deny the movie was made and acted with impeccable professionalism, and a script, that was excellent in the characters' development"
And, for those who were interested, here's the link, that coming from Time, most influential and conservative critic, veteran and extremely difficult Richard Corliss,wrote on Time, after watching the movie at its Opening on September 5th at the Venice Film Festival: I think many of you reading these post's or not should read it, because, without wanting to disrespect srousecc's opinion, i think this is one of the strongest reviews given by Corliss in the past 5 years,at least, and because, it presents this movie under the right light,it should be also watched carefully with:
http://entertainment.time.com/2012/09/06/robert-redfords-the-company-you-keep-old-radicals-die-hard/#ixzz25kCQoYIm
Thank you for respecting opinions then, but, do not please call "revolting" what you may not know in depth.. There were many people who fought non violently for a better World, for peace, and understanding, often giving their own lives or reputation, for a change, that failed indeed,especially if we look at this mainly superficial youth, we've got today around us. Is that, perhaps, an admirable or revolting idea? I would not wanna hear either! I just would like to hear some respect and true information,and once in a while to be able to see someone charged with greater expectations, than a thriller,over an acute psychological drama, that only whispers to us, that even during these times of velocity and speed, web, and videogames, memory of the past should be, could be considered a virtue, after all!
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srousecc
12 years ago
Ok can I change the subject of this post to What An Offensive Piece Of Junk That Passes itself Off As A Movie? and film?
Would you support that subject. I am curious if you would allow that as that was your take on a film you wrote about at this link.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1781947/board/thread/179940656?d=204547284#204547284
Just as an aside we also part ways regarding calling this film important. I call it just plain offensive.
I am curious when you point out threats? In the below comment....you totally lost me there can you please explain what you meant.
"But, must tell you that i have some doubts on the clarity of these posts and, most of all, on your in depth self defense,hey, you just did it all on your own: first,almost with threats,then, once addressed by others, you did what you were supposed to do, saw the movie, and trashed it, and,with the ultimate stab, by saying that i was the aggressor in all this, and, you had only retained the right to have an idea! BRAVO!"
I was lost by the above statement when referring to "threats" as well as Self Defense"
I also would like to thank your Father for serving, but please keep in mind that your father was not the only one who served. My Father also served and was killed over there so please keep that in mind you were not the only ones who experienced loss.
But just to conclude this posting I stand by my comments I made in the first as well as any other postings I have made. They are comments that I have made have been from my experience by living just as you have.
I guess we can agree to disagree.
Oh and yes I did see Network it was a good film....we can agree on that at least.
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pug77
11 years ago
Scorsese also should of won for Goodfellas that was an awesome movie.
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