Should've Kept It in Ancient Rome?
Why did they have to go almost contemporary?
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Ancient Rome requires huge sets thus a huge budget.
Plus, i dont think people will be drawn to another Shakespearean film in togas. something different may attract peoples attention.
Personally i love the idea of it being in Serbia.
Plus, i dont think people will be drawn to another Shakespearean film in togas
Ancient Rome requires huge sets thus a huge budget.
I like especially the last part: "Belgrade has the weight of a capital. It’s a power city. But it also could be every city."
shareI liked the locations they found. However, modern warfare is not the same as Roman warfare. Yes, you can replace swords with guns and horses with tanks. But the idea of a lone hero who can win battles, fight the enemy general in hand-to-hand combat and overcome entire cities is harder to swallow in a modern context. Why did Martius have to go into Corioles at all? Why not just shell it into submission?
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Yeah they should've. The cast is great but the pics make me not want to see it. I hate this Shakespeare trend of modernizing the setting. It's retarded.
shareThe most basic reason for it to be contemporary is so the material is more recognizable to modern audiences, good or not. It either works really well or not a bit; it depends on which Shakespeare play and direction.
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Ya know, Shakespeare himself modernized many of his stories, with contemporary locations, settings, and references.I think you must be confusing Shakespeare with someone else - Harold Pinter, maybe. Shakespeare almost never used contemporary settings; the only play that could possibly be described as contemporary is The Merry Wives of Windsor.
I really don't think he'd have much of a problem with a setting update, so long as they kept the spirit of the story intact.Very likely this is true. Shakespeare began his career by re-jigging other peoples' plays and he no doubt expected others in turn to re-jig his. But so what? We shouldn't excuse bad ideas just because Shakespeare probably wouldn't have minded. The reason Shakespeare probably wouldn't object to setting updates is that he was probably had a remarkably easy-going attitudes towards all manner of performance flaws that we wouldn't dream of tolerating today. He wouldn't have objected to Juliet being played by a male, for instance; but that's no reason for us not to object. share
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Yeah, that's why clocks are mentioned in Julius Ceasar and Hamlet is both Christian (Denmark was pretty strictly Pagan at the time the play is set) and mentioned as attending a school that wouldn't be founded for another 400 or so years.Yes, Shakespeare made mistakes - and while these are relatively big ones, the continuity-error-checking mindset that fills the "goofs" pages at IMDb can find similar errors in almost every work of fiction ever made, including some that are set only three or four years in the past. My reaction: Big deal.
You might argue anachronisms aren't the same as updates...And of course I would argue that, because it is true. If you think historical inaccuracy (you can see an extra's wristwatch in El Cid) is the same thing as a wholesale change of setting (El Cid must be set in the 20th Century) then you're deeply confused.
...but I see them as an indication that setting didn't matter to Shakespeare as much as story and character.Just because X doesn't matter as much as Y doesn't mean that X doesn't matter at all. Setting clearly did matter to Shakespeare to some degree: he went to the trouble of choosing different settings, after all, presumably favouring those he liked (such as Italy) and not simply placing the action of every play in contemporary London (in fact, none of his plays is set in contemporary London).
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You say there is only one way for Shakespeare to be performed, in setting at least.That lame qualification - "in setting at least" - shows how ridiculous your claim is. I think Julius Caesar should be set in Ancient Rome, for instance. Does this mean I think there is "only one way" of performing Julius Caesar? Obviously not, since there are indefinitely many ways of performing the play within this broad requirement.
You disregard any justification, artistic or intellectual, in favor of a dogmatic and restrictive view that serves no purpose other than to restrict performances in the name of some fictional "historical accuracy".There's a lot wrong with your claim here. For a start, I'm not really very interested in historical accuracy. I don't care if a staging of Julius Caesar accurately depicts Ancient Rome; so long as it depicts Ancient Rome somehow.
...Shakespeare cared more about character, story, and the beauty of dialogue than he did about the exact setting. He was a dramatist, not a historian. Thus, there shouldn't be a problem with staging one of his plays in a setting not identical to the one he has drawn from.We're both just speculating about what Shakespeare cared about, and I don't know exactly what his priorities were. But I think it's likely he cared to some extent about setting. We know he was an Italiophile, and liked setting plays in Italy, for instance. We also know that he at most once in his career (with The Merry Wives of Windsor) set a play in contemporary England - like many artists, he probably wanted to transport his audiences to other times and places. He was, as you say a dramatist, not a historian; so his interest in setting was doubtless motivated by dramatic concerns. share
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But what mistakes would there be? That's the main fallacy with your argument: you don't offer any concrete evidence as to WHY it's wrong, you just say "it's wrong"...I think the case made against modernising is pretty obvious: too obvious to need stating. The main points are:
What of Kenneth Branagh's "Hamlet" The time period is 19th-century, and the exteriors were shot at England's Blenheim Palace (though it is set in Denmark). Is that equally stupid, or is it close enough to the past to get a pass?It's not equally stupid as a present day setting, but that doesn't make it a good idea. On the whole I'd say it "gets a pass". Branagh makes the new setting work, I think, but just barely.
It's not "retarded" ... One of the very best Shakespeare adaptations is Ian McKellan's brilliant 1930's "Richard III". ...and possibly the most famous and fondly remembered stage adaptation of "A Midsummer Night's Dream" was thPeter Brook production, set at no particular time,in no particular place .....then there's Branagh's amazing 19th century, vaguely Austro-Hungarian "Hamlet" ...and do you think Shakespeare himself used historically accurate costuming. ... Well, you probably do, because you don't know much about the history of the staging of Shakespearean drama.
But you ARE Blanche ... and I AM.
Exactly. There's a reason why one of the first thing any theatre critic must address in any review of a Shakespeare play is... wait for it...
Setting.
Shakespeare's Roman plays often mention silly things like "doublets" and not "togas".
It's not dumbing the works down. It's holding true to them.
Cat
Cookies are way better than gold stars.
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Well... it would be the 5th Century BC... so there wouldn't be much of a Rome. No great costumes or armor... towering white-columned buildings (not that there was that much white in Rome... many buildings we believe to have been stone were actually painted).
The only other setting I would have accepted would be a 19th Century setting... love the uniforms and formality of that time period.
Incidentally, I saw this done in Ashland a few years ago. They set it in modern clothing. AR15s, AK47s, Desert Storm uniforms, etc. Very enjoyable.
The far off time and places of Shakespeare's plays is one of their charms. Very few of his plays are set in his own time and place. The Merry Wives Of Windsor--but that's about it. He apparently assumed his audience could draw the parallels themselves. Modern tellers think they have to shove it down audience's throats.
shareIt's not dumbing the works down. It's holding true to them.
Well... it would be the 5th Century BC... so there wouldn't be much of a Rome.
It was almost certainly for business reasons that the film is contemporary, and the location chosen also reflects this.
I have always found it interesting that artists feel that audiences will not be able "to connect to the historical setting", yet keep the Shakespearean dialogue; while I myself love the Bard's manuscripts, I think that they are far more opaque than costumes and sets for the audience.
With being set in a modern era and with the original dialogue intact, I fear that audiences will not connect with the film on ANY level, and an amazing tale of honor, pride, vanity and betrayal will be lost in (attempted) translation.
"Any experiment of interest in life will be carried out at your own expense."
Why wouldn't an audience be able to connect to the film. The Romeo & Juliet adaptation done with DiCaprio and Danes was huge when it came out and that came all the original dialogue intact. Personally, I love Taymor's Titus which is kind of a cross between a modern and historical setting.
Using a modern setting is a great way of showing the timelessness of these stories.
Saying it was a business decision is silly. If they're only thinking of business, why not change the dialogue to be modern then? That right there can guarantee a much larger audience.
That an audience can better connect with a more contemporary backdrop is oft-heard reasoning for stage versions of Shakespeare being set in modern times. But personally I am in full agreement, and especially with the examples you give of Luhrmann and Taymor's films.
However, your assertion that it is "silly" to invoke business as a reason to set the film in modern times is, itself, quite silly. To outfit the entire cast and extras in early republican Roman attire, and scores of extras in Roman battle gear (with greaves, helmets, swords, shields, spears and curiass), in addition to finding period specific locations, or constructing sets to replicate them, would in my opinion have added $4MM to the film's budget, minimum. Film is a risky business with a high price tag already. Committing several million more was almost certainly deemed to be far too high in negative cost for one of Shakespeare's lesser known plays.
"Any experiment of interest in life will be carried out at your own expense."
And you think building what looks like a modern battlefield was cheaper?
It could have easily been filmed on set with CGI much the same way they did for Zodiac. Historical Roman uniforms are much simpler to actually make (and I say this as someone that has taken specifically fashion history courses--Roman clothing was actually much simpler than what you usually see depicted in movies based in that period) and a lot of movies do recycle the historical clothing and gear (there is actually a blog I found a few years back dedicated to showing the various movies random articles of historical clothing repeatedly appear in--I'll try to see if I can find it again). Look at what HBO managed to do with Game of Thrones, which was expensive for television, but frankly not so much movie wise.
Honestly, I do think it was an artistic choice to set the story during modern times much the same way Von Trier chose the barest of sets for Dogville.
"And you think building what looks like a modern battlefield was cheaper?"
Yes, I do. In point of fact I know that it is, with all due respect to your academic investigations. BDU's are common and easy to render, as well as also being recycled via many (more, in terms of use in number of films) productions. CGI is not an inexpensive option to locations and periods; I have looked into this for productions of my own before.
It could very well be true that Fiennes and the producers chose the modern era for their artistic vision; but there were many positive balance sheet reasons that could have come into play as well, and thus I think those may have had a swaying factor, or have been a reason, within the final decision. I'd love to know for sure! Though you will almost NEVER hear an artist or even a producer state for the record that anything was done to save money. haha
"Any experiment of interest in life will be carried out at your own expense."
And you think building what looks like a modern battlefield was cheaper?
Historical Roman uniforms are much simpler to actually make
I've seen it and it works--the Shakespearean dialogue and gritty modern setting/feel may seem an incongruous match for a few minutes, but very soon you forget about it. Anyway, Shakespeare WAS a modern playwright--he wrote plays for audiences of his day, whether they were set in ancient Rome or on a mythical island of magic. He surely wouldn't have had any problem with their being "updated" to any setting that made the most sense for the audiences seeing them. The breaking TV news reports and bombed-out-looking battlefield cities here just make "Coriolanus" seem even more relevant to our particular era's brand of war. Anyway, that's my two cents.
shareInteresting to note that no-one has mentioned Julie Taymors excellent 1999 Shakespeare adaptation, Titus. That was a brilliant film and this looks to be awesome too.
:D
Nothing unususal. For some reason film makers over the last 20 years have had an aversion to placing their Shakespeare adaptions in their proper historical settings.
shareI love Ralph Fiennes and I am going to give this a chance. It does look good.
I just feel like everyone feels the need to dumb down Shakespeare for today's audience, and all they care about is whether or not the film will make money. Apparently we are too stupid to understand for ourselves the parallels between our lives and ancient times. Are we so uneducated today that we have no ability to even try to understand?
I understand what he is doing by bringing it into the present. I commend his creativity, and I really hope it does well. I just appreciate Shakespearean films that keep (fairly) true to the original.
Because it's completely normal/expected to stage Shakespearean pieces in a more contemporary setting?
We really need to get more people going to the theatre...
We really need to get more people going to the theatre...
Because it's completely normal/expected to stage Shakespearean pieces in a more contemporary setting?