I posted this on Jason's page too.
Several years ago I heard Jason on the radio promoting his book "The Last Victim". I ran out and bought it, read it straight through in a matter of hours. As the net became more and more dominant I followed his career. Then on June 6, 2006 he killed himself (odd that it was 4 years ago almost to the day that I made this post) and I am wondering if anyone has figured out why. Any ideas?
I also read Jasons book and wondered the same thing, especially since he was married. He did not leave a note so we can only guess. Obviously, he was very troubled in order to kill himself. It seems out of character for Jason to kill himself without leaving a note explaining the reason or making a statement. I hope that it wasn't because of any pychic damage he may have sustained by his contact with these serial killers. It is extremely odd that he did kill himself, if that is what happened. I can only hope he is resting in peace.
shareI don't know either, but in his book he does explain a lot about his problems with stress, and expecting too much out of himself all the time, that he had weighing on him even before he started contacting Gacy.
It seems to me like he thought, ever since he was little, that he was under constant pressure to live up to some unattainable ideal that he could never get over, to please everyone, make others proud of him, and to make others respect him and look up to him as almost a god-like figure. In other words, he had a big problem with his ego, in my opinion.
From what I read, it sounded like he couldn't stand to be anything but the very best in everything he ever tried to do, and that included dominating the serial killers he started contacting, to get what he wanted out of them, for the good of the public. And if he thought he had then somehow failed at that, it was like he thought that he had failed at life itself.
I do think that he was a very bright person with good intentions and a good heart, and he did do some good with his life to help make a difference in the world and help others, and I respect the choices he made.
But I think in the end that his ego got the better of him, because in addition to what he wrote in his book I also watched his 20/20 interviews in which he explained that he didn't feel that he had attained any semblance of a victory over Gacy, and that he did indeed feel that he was Gacy's "last victim", so he was definitely scarred from that encounter.
I also read that when he committed suicide that it was relatively soon after he was contacted about making the movie, and even though he supposedly seemed excited about it, maybe the memories started weighing down on him too much and he just couldn't take it anymore, and he was too proud to try and get legitimate help for his problems.
But then, I didn't even know the guy in person, so this is just sheer speculation on my part. But I do find his case very fascinating and well worth studying.
No offense to Jason but by his own omission he seems a bit... off. in the book at least. think of how obsessed he was with different things. being an overachiever. going through phases getting what he wanted out of them and than moving onto something else. was he like this with people too?
He also enjoyed adapting to people to fit their thoughts and feelings. gauging their reactions. manipulating people to a certain degree. I'm not saying he was a psychopath himself. but... he was *not* your average kid.
As much as I feel ashamed saying this... was part of Jason turned on by Gacy's sick perversions and attention? it seems like he lost himself when corresponding with the serial killers.
~I love the rhythm it is my methoood!~
was part of Jason turned on by Gacy's sick perversions and attention?
I know that Jason clearly wasn't your average guy and probably dealt with more psychologically than any of us will ever know, before and especially after his communications with serial killers.
But I can't help but feel something's amiss here. Something, for me, just doesn't add up. I mean really, how easy would it have been for one of these guys to contact an outside source, and make Jason's death appear as a suicide? I know that foul play was ruled out, but from what I've read, doesn't seem like there was much of an investigation either.
Ah well, RIP Jason Moss.
I killed you ten minutes ago, while you slept.
He did refrence that in the book. about being afraid that someone from the outside hired coming to get him. however... why wait all those years though? while sad I don't think it's anything more than suicide. just my 2 cents. he was a good writer. it's a shame he's gone. I feel bad for his family.
~I love the rhythm it is my methoood!~
Lack of inclusivity on this perspective kind of dings the movie version of his book, this review says --->
http://shareddarkness.com/2010/12/26/dear-mr-gacy-dvd.aspx
Either way... sad.
Yes, I think something is "amiss" too. You might be interested in Dave McGowan's book, Programmed to Kill. There are strong indications that Gacy did not act alone. He clearly was into raping and torturing young men but may not have been a killer. Several victims testified that they were tortured by Gacy at his trial (he let all of them go, when he could have killed them, which is not consistent with the M.O. of serial killers in general). At least 15 people had keys to Gacy's home. Two associates of Gacy were known to have protected and shielded him from police during his period of surveillance. He was very well connected and always had extraordinary privileges while incarcerated. According to one of his prosecutors, "two items on Gacy's Chicago police report were blacked out, indicating that they were FBI matters". There are many strange facts relating to this case, as well as those of many other highly publicized serial killers, as described in the book. The reality regarding them in general is very different from what has been presented as to the public. Connections to satanic cults are prevalent in many cases but are never publicized. Jason's supposed suicide occurred on 6/6/06.
Jason said that if he had known at the time what he learned later he would never have made contact with Gacy. I think what he learned was that the kind of information Gacy could provide about his protected "associates" only succeeded in putting his own life in danger. The circumstances of the prison visit might have been arranged precisely to give Gacy a real opportunity to kill Jason (according to him, he was not only placed alone in the same room with a handcuffed Gacy but the camera was turned to face the wall! - that detail was left out of the movie and the loose security is depicted as mere negligence).
He graduates Summa Cum Laude, had never lost a case as a defense attorney, was trying to get his best selling book made into a movie, sounded perfectly normal according to friends, then suddenly decides to kill himself on 6/6/06 without even leaving a note? No way.
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That's pretty much exactly the impression I got from McGowan's book. I imagine these guys sitting in the background while Gacy does his thing, maybe smoking a cigar or jerking off. Then one of them administers the coup de grace because Gacy isn't high-ranking enough for that "privilege". Then poor old Gacy is left with the body to dispose of. Have you seen Martyrs? Speaking of Illuminati and high-level Satanists, this movie pulls no punches. Helluva flick.
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Jon Death, here are some interesting facts about Dahmer you may not have heard before (from Programmed to Kill) -
- While on a senior class trip to Washington D.C., Jeffrey Dahmer makes a call from a payphone and informs his classmates he has secured them a visit the office of the VP. Dahmer leads them on a tour of Walter Mondale's office, followed by a visit to the office of prominent writer Art Buchwald. It has never been revealed who Dahmer called that day to make these arrangements.
- Like Gary Heidnik, Dahmer enlisted and requested training as a military policeman but was trained as a medic instead. (Heidnik was verifiably involved in MK Ultra projects while in the military).
- Dahmer was released from military service early due to chronic alcoholism, but was given an honorable discharge with full benefits.
- Dahmer was on parole throughout his killing spree. No one ever visited his home, permeated by the stench of death and littered with morbid artifacts and photos, to check up on him.
- in 1990, Dahmer assaulted and tried to strangle a 15 year old boy who gave police an address and description. No one bothered to investigate.
- Police returned a naked, bleeding an drugged 14 year old boy to the custody of Dahmer, accepting Dahmer's explanation of a "lover's quarrel", despite the angry objections of two female witnesses who saw the boy forcibly resisting Dahmer's efforts to restrain him. Police told the women to go away and refused to take their names. A routine background check would have revealed that Dahmer was a convicted child molestor who's previous victim was the bleeding boy's brother. (you know that one)
- Dahmer's last intended victim described him undergoing a sudden, radical transformation. "His face completely changed. I wouldn't have recognized him. It was as if the devil himself stood in front of me". (Project Monarch? MK Ultra?)
- Two of Dahmer's alleged murder victims had been abducted from Chicago though Dahmer did not own or have use of a car.
- In March 1999, the brother of one of Dahmer's victims was found stabbed to death. Police described the young man's death as a "ritual sacrifice" (shades of Jason Moss?)
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The evidence strongly supports Gacy being Illuminati and bearing the wrap for satanic cult ritual.
"Jason's supposed suicide occurred on 6/6/06.
Which means one of two things:
1) He became a Satanist and killed himself.
2) He was murdered by a Satanist."
I'm with you on this one, this thread is simply a gift from heaven !
I know, right? It's hard to read when you're shaking your head non-stop LOL.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings.
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Jason's supposed suicide occurred on 6/6/06.
what other killers did he talk to, thought it was just gacy? they probably should have mentioned that at the end of the film.
shareIt was well documented that he exchanged letters with Manson, Ramirez and Dahmer, even if it wasn't mentioned in the movie (I missed the beginning), but he had more contact with Gacy than any of the others.
I too would love to know why he killed himself because all we have is speculation.
i think its a chilling at the end of the movie when jason moss reads his final letter from gacy which says "see u on the other side"
shareThe ending of the movie really says it all doesn't it? they were both alot alike. whether Jason wanted to admit it or not. I believe (in a twisted way.) they did have a genuine connection. but Jason got too deep into it all.
I think it ultimately led to his downfall. the picture of them at the end is both oddly poignant and chilling.
~I love the rhythm it is my methoood!~
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I'll post my stupid 2 cents. I found Jason's book by accident. I hope I can make this short.
People who have some hardship in their lives often investigate evil in the hopes that they can 1.) stop it 2.) protect themselves from it 3.) ensure that they are not evil themselves.
After doing this sort of thing (which most people don't do) they often find that one of the three or all three are something that they can't do.
So I think Moss committed suicide in some combination of knowing he can't stop evil, knowing that people he loves will be hurt and that even he himself has a lot of that evil within himself.
Also, I do tend to think Moss had some sexual issues of his own that he wasn't willing to admit. Though I doubt he was gay - he was probably a little confused.
What hump?
I never read the book but I just saw the movie. If the Gacy project alone made him as troubled as he became in the movie and he kept studying and contacting other serial killers until his death, that's enough to drive him crazy and make him want to commit suicide. Perhaps more specifically, the interactions with the killers changed his mental state to bring up evil desires in himself, but rather than act on those desires, being a law abiding citizen with a good upbringing, he killed himself so he wouldn't kill anyone else.
The other theories in this thread are interesting too. I've always wondered whether Gacy really acted alone or not.
The reason I was drawn to the story was because I did much the same thing when I was Moss' age. I used to read Stephen King and then went to Thomas Harris after Silence of the Lambs came out. (Ever read The Dead Zone - King describes much of the psychology of the killer in the prequel to Silence of the Lambs.)
My family was a little strange, my brother and sister both read Helter Skelter several times and had an interest in famous crime - my brother was a lot like Moss portrayed himself in the book (very athletic and confident) but in reality it's taken years for my brother and me to see each other accurately.
My brother also used to like to read about historic figures like Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great and Hitler.
However, my brother never delved as deeply into the psychology of evil men - I did and it depressed me something horrible. When I was around 18, I decided to stop reading these things.
My father used to think a lot and it took me years to realize how wise he is - he used to talk about the way the mind worked - not in a dark way but that combined with my own angry thoughts wasn't good.
Then when I was 29 (by this time I had a wife and five kids of my own), I met a young man - one of my students who was struggling - his psychologically twisted and abusive father had left his family and he was struggling with feelings of extreme sexual violence against women. As I got to know him and help him by being a sort of father to him, I began to get back into my old interest in the psychology of murder and aggression.
In the process I realized that this kid I had grown to think of as a son was essentially a man who could easily have become a serial killer - that it was only his faith in God that prevented it.
I realized how much of me was like this kid's father and how much I myself was like so many of these serial killers I instinctively liked to read about.
I was repulsed by such men but also fascinated by them because they seemed to be the only sorts who understood me (and me them) - I realized that all of my friends were these very analytical (often intellectual) angry, bitter and manipulative men.
My friends and me all connected in terms of our psychological insecurities and aggression.
And that is not a good connection point - Very twisted.
I think that Moss saw these things about himself and couldn't handle it.
The more a person looks for darkness in themselves and connects with the darkness in others, the more of it they will find. However, a person can't let the darkness in themselves and others rule them because they ignore it either.
What hump?
I think you make a good point. I think that Jason Moss had one too many talks with a serial killer. I think that he started to realize that he actually WAS in fact a lot like Gacy and the others. He couldn't handle it. It was probably among other things, but when you're involved in something like that, i mean he had some type of relationship with a man who dressed as a clown and killed, raped, and tortured 20+ male teenagers, and then your career is wrapped around it you don't forget it. The memories had to have come flooded back every day he woke up until he went to bed.
Its easy for us to think that Gacy made a call and Moss got killed, but its also easy to think about how Moss took his own life. Reading about Moss and his twisted relationship with Gacy supports the latter theory. He contacted him with no intention of delving so deeply into it, but he did. He truly let Gacy make him his Last Victim. Gacy may not have killed him physically but he did mentally torture him.
Like I said, Moss realized that he and Gacy were a lot alike and it probably scared him half to death. Like someone said in an earlier post, one tries to learn more about evil with 1)the hopes of stopping it 2) the hopes of protecting themselves against it and 3) to see if they have any of it in themselves.
He tried to learn more about evil for a thesis paper and in the process he 1)tried to fool it 2) never thought he would be affected by it and 3) realized how much of it was in himself.
which led him to stopping that evil by committing only one murder---his own.
When TVD brings Lucy and Sheila back my life will be complete.
Well, of course, I definitely agree.
It is interesting to think that he may have killed himself because he had desires to kill others himself. However, it's more likely he was just depressed about what he'd learned.
I mean, if the book is accurate and he sort of played as a sexual tease and victim for Gacy, that is pretty messed up.
I think the psychology of a young man who would do that has implies more of a desire to be a victim than any man wants to admit about himself.
In times I've spent delving into filth on the Internet, I'm surprised at how much there is out there about people who would like to be raped and/or tortured.
It must be common and can't be pleasant to know about yourself.
What hump?
Hythlodaeus, I hear ya. And that's all I'm going to say about me personally. But I get a lot of your points. I also liked the three reasons you listed as to why people try to delve into these twisted/dark minds, and also feel it something to do with those why this guy killed himself. This movie did kinda strike a chord with me.
"However, my brother never delved as deeply into the psychology of evil men - I did and it depressed me something horrible. When I was around 18, I decided to stop reading these things. "
Yeah... Make sure to at least take breaks here and there and balance your interest with lighthearted fluff. I would have found that so 'shallow' and blasphemous to "advise" to someone years ago...as if I was sooo deep and beyond lighthearted fluff. But you know what, dwelling in this kind of darkness is actually harmful as you seem to know. I know you mentioned being 18 when you were int to this...but from your posts the interest is clearly still there. Make sure to have enough lightness going on too, for your own happiness.
You're right, man. People have to be careful about this stuff - instead of reading about true crime and stuff - now I mostly read things like Brothers Karamozov - more interesting anyway.
shareHaha, I suppose that's a step up. ;) Doestkovsky deals with dark/depressing stuff...but with a point. Not just senseless depravity which is what we're exposed to often if/when looking into real life criminals. Not that it's senseless to them...just...there's no bigger point or lesson or message we're getting out of it besides that there are a lot of truly sick people in the world.
share
Yeah, Dostoyevsky is a lot more light than say, Kafka and Sartre.
From Kafka, I've only read The Castle, because it was the only thing he actually finished - well, you can't even tell he finished it.
Ever read The Fixer by Bernard Malamud?
What hump?
In my life I have been touched by the suicide of a parent. It is a very traumatic event and I can understand some of the emotional issues that arise from this. It is difficult to understand why someone does this and I can sympathize with the members of the Moss family who have had to suffer through this.
Alot of people are interested in Reading Crime books etc. Truman Capotes - In Cold Blood, Donald Wolfe - The Black Dahlia Files. It is quite normal for people to have a morbid curiosity with the darkside in life and they are not consumed and affected adversely in anyway by this.
No, nothing like this is a 1:1 relationship or clear cause and effect, however, depending on the degree a person enters into dark things combined with the level to which they are affected (a function of their unique personality) is what determines the outcome.
Radioactivity doesn't cause cancer and death at the same rates for all people but we don't say that radiation isn't dangerous.
What hump?
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