MovieChat Forums > Cloud Atlas (2012) Discussion > Where they went wrong (from a fan of the...

Where they went wrong (from a fan of the movie)


Let me start out by saying, I LOVE this movie, have done so since first seeing it and have watched it numerous times, but I've still yet to read the book.

Here's where I think the directors made a mistake in the movie, and wondering if this makes sense to anyone else, I think they made a mistake with the actors playing different roles throughout the different times.

I don't mean that they should have had completely different cast for each timeframe, I mean they should have had the same actors playing the same parts.

In each of the timeframes, we see someone at some point has the birth mark of the tattoo, suggesting that this is the same soul that has been reborn into different bodies throughout it's journey through time. But the tattoo is always on a different actor, meaning that the soul changes from person to person. Should the soul not have been on the same actor in EVERY timeframe?

By this I mean, using the make up that they did, where necessary, should these two 'souls' not have been played by the same two actors? (a young duo, photogenic that could be made up to look older or the oppositte sex as necessary).

SPOILER

The movie ends with the two characters played by Tom Hanks and Halle Berry, the last versions of them we see (living on another planet after being rescued from a poisonous earth). I saw this as being that the two souls had finally been able to find each other and be together away from all of the bad souls that were trying to keep them apart - but by having the comet birth mark on a different actor each time, it disconnects the audience from that soul, meaning that they don't know which two characters they should be rooting for the entire movie, and resulting in a sort of disconnection with the audience?

Anyone else get what I mean, and agree or disagree?

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I took the presence of the birthmark as an indication of a soul that would (at some point in that lifetime) earn its right of passage to the new world by overcoming its basic human failings.

The "Hugo Weaving" soul and the "Hugh Grant" souls were never going to make it to the new world. They were failures.

Frobisher, Luisa, Cavendish, Ewing, and Son Mi, all earned their passage to the new world. And Zachary is the last to make the leap, only in his incarnation after the fall as the valley shepherd, does he finally cast off that fear, paranoia, and human weakness... symbolized by the breaking of the necklace bound to the button his former incarnation stole from Ewing centuries prior.

I think that's why we finally see the birthmark on Tom Hanks only at the very end of the movie, he's made it, and only just.

The one I wonder about is Sixsmith. I'm not sure he makes it to the new world... we never see a birthmark on him in any of his incarnations. I like to think that somewhere along the way he earned his passage, but we never see him among the prescients. But who knows... maybe he is one of Meronym and Zachary's grandchildren.

Then again we never see a birthmark on Keith David or David Gyasi, but we see them among the prescients along with Broadbent (and Mister Meeks!) So I assume they make it to the new world too.

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I think that's why we finally see the birthmark on Tom Hanks only at the very end of the movie

But Hanks also played Sachs, whom I would like to think earned passage to the new world.

Be sure to proof your posts to see if you any words out

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That's an interesting point. The way I see it, the "Hanks" soul (for want of a better name for him), starts as an evil character, and only in his first substantive encounter with the "Berry" soul does he start to change. It's why Sachs notes that something very important has happened to him right before he dies.

It seems to me that without Luisa Rey, Sachs would never have divulged the information in the report, and was in fact not planning on doing so. So as I see it he just tentatively starts on that journey to breaking free of his human frailty but dies before he can fully embrace it. In his next incarnation as Demott we see there is still plenty of "Goose" left in him. He again encounters Berry, as the nameless partygoer, but commits a murder and gets himself thrown in jail before anything can come of it.

No wonder his soul is so tortured by the time he is incarnated as Zachary, he's carrying a lot of conflict on his shoulders. But it is in this final (in the film) incarnation that we see the necklace with the button Goose stole from Ewing centuries earlier snap, symbolizing the "Hanks" soul finally breaking free of his sin, and saving Meronym who he was (apparently) always meant to be with.

Zachary isn't kidding when he says Meronym was the best thing that ever happened to him. He just doesn't realize that "happening" took place hundreds of years before he was born, when he was Sachs and she was Luisa Rey.

So anyway that's my take on it. Sachs begins the journey to saving himself, but can't do it without Rey--from womb to tomb we are bound to others. It is only when they spend time together again in the distant future that he is finally able to become a truly better person.

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The one I wonder about is Sixsmith.
Throughout the film, Sixsmith seems more like an observer than a participant. He always seems to be searching for an understanding of events going on around him, but always relies on someone else to find it for him. Frobisher's story is told through letters written to Sixsmith, and at the end of that story Sixsmith searches for him and arrives just too late to save him. In the Luisa Rey story he's more proactive, but he's still not the hero - he's there to pass information to Luisa, so that she fight the good fight for him. In his last incarnation as the Archivist, he interviews Sonmi-451 and tries to understand her philosophy. In the end, when he asks if she thinks anyone will believe her, she replies "Someone already does," suggesting that Sixsmith/The Archivist is on the cusp of finding the understanding he's been looking for all this time.

I like to think that the Archivist later played his part in the revolution that Sonmi inspired, so maybe old Sixsmith finally came into his own after all. We can only hope that he'll find his way to the "better world" where Frobisher (and all the others) are waiting for him.

That's my off-the-cuff interpretation of him, anyway.

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"The one I wonder about is Sixsmith. I'm not sure he makes it to the new world... we never see a birthmark on him in any of his incarnations"

Are you sure? As I recall, we see it in the very first scene with Frobisher and Sixsmith in the hotel; they are both naked in bed and Sixsmith has the birthmark just above his right buttock.

"Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw..."

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Yeah that's the way it is in the book, that the main characters with the birthmark in each timeframe are the same soul.
But in the movie, its different. Its supposed to be that the actors play the reincarnations of the souls they represent, and the birthmark is for the one that transcends, or emits influential change. That's why every soul who had the birthmark wrote something that was passed down to the next soul who obtained the birthmark, and so on. And all these characters were connected together in each lifetime.

Example is like Tom Hanks started as an evil person trying to poison Ewing, to then a greedy hotel clerk, to Issac who was part of the nuclear/oil scandal but then met halle berry for the first time and was about to have a change of heart before he was killed, to then relapsing into evil again as the irish author mob person, then down to Zachary who had the birthmark, and experienced evil hallucinations from all his past lives, which he overcomes, and also finally finds love with halle berry. Love was like the overall message in this movie.

On a side note, a tragic one I interpreted was robert frobisher's because he made lots of mistakes in his life by stealing and being unfaithful to sixsmith, and then ended up killing himself in the hopes to see Sixsimth again in a different, better life. But as shown in the future timeframes, he never was. By ending his life halfway, its like that messed with his karma and he never was able to fully transcend like the other souls. He just kind of fell into the crowd, even though his letters to sixsimth and his music the Cloud Atlas Sextet had an impact way into the future.

Yeah, so that's what I saw how the whole soul reincarnation thing worked in this film. Loved it!

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Adam Ewing - on his chest
Robert Frobisher - on his lower back
Luisa Rey - On her shoulder
Timothy Cavendish - on his knee
Sonmi-451 - on her neck
Zachry - back of his head

All the main character in each story.

For each of these characters we see their journeys through time, along with some other characters whose voyages were no so sweet, played by Hugh Grant & Hugo Weaving. I find these two actors names a little interesting as they both can be very simple phrases; You grant or You go weaving. (sidebar?)

For job of the viewer is to compare these main characters to their actors through time and see each voyage. Of course excepting reincarnation as a possibility helps to complete each picture.

It's all connected.

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From a practical standpoint, would you really have like to see each of the 'comet' characters played by one actor? Can you really see Jim Broadbent as Luisa or Sonmi?? Halle Berry as Timothy Cavendish? Would've been a bit much for me!

I think people are in danger of being a bit to linear and literal regarding trying to follow the actors paths' through the film. Obviously the book doesn't make this sort of connection at all - only the echo effect that each 'comet' character has on the next.

It's for this reason I don't think we should judge the worthiness of each person's life - it's not so simple to say they were on an upward curve that led to Zachary. Or even that Hugh and Hugo were evil incarnate on a downward path. Even these characters, through their lives and deeds, affected the actions of another, and so on. Any positive, and negative for that matter, outcomes, were dependent on these people's interactions with each other, and in a more spiritual sense, the echo of their actions through the generations.

'Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future.'

Ewing's redemption for instance, would not have been possible without Autua's intervention. Frobisher ultimately lived quite a sinful life, but his actions leant on Sixsmith, and through to Luisa etc.

If you want to take a more literal view of the film, and interpret the actors as the same soul in different roles, you obviously can - Ewing and Tilda become Hae Joo and Sonmi, Sachs and Luisa eventually reborn as Zachary and Meronym. You could argue these are the most important romances of the movie. Just as an aside, I don't like this interpretation, or the creation of these romances and use of the same actors in different roles - none of these exist in the novel at all, and I think it's better for it. But it seems you can't have a movie without a romantic interest :(

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Well, books aren't movies, movies aren't books... when a movie is based on a book I think it's best to keep the two separate in one's mind and let the film stand on its own. The creator of the novel was quite pleased with the movie.

“I knew that they would be changing the structure of it, and what I felt, really, was relief because if somebody filmed it with the same structure as the book, it would suck,” -- David Mitchell

http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2012/10/cloud-atlas-author-david-mitchell-if-the-movie-were-structured-like-the-book-it-would-suck/

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Well absolutely, I'm aware they completely stand alone, and don't get me wrong I think Cloud Atlas is an astonishing film.

I'm just not a huge fan of using romantic themes as the big poignant/heart breaking plot point of a film. Think it's a bit cheap. I think there are bigger themes that deserve more attention. That's in general, not just in regards to this film.

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:-)

I guess I am an old softie... it didn't bother me. Love was an important element in this story, especially as a means to overcome human frailty.

BTW - perhaps it was different in the book, but Frobisher didn't strike me as sinful, just someone who crossed boundaries. As he himself noted, boundaries are just conventions.

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“I knew that they would be changing the structure of it, and what I felt, really, was relief because if somebody filmed it with the same structure as the book, it would suck,” -- David Mitchell

I like it.

Someone else said that if they did the structure in the book, it would be a 4-film franchise, each a different story.

But then we would have possibly lost the links or they would have been less pronounced.

Be sure to proof your posts to see if you any words out

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Back to the original thread topic, my main beef is that I do feel they tried to be a little too cute and clever with the editing. There were quite a number of times I just would have preferred the stories to flow that much longer, before jumping to another time period, after yet another 20 - 30 second instalment.

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Playing musical actors only bothered me when I couldn't suspend my disbelief (e.g. Asian Ben Whishaw). What really got me was the way they cut the stories together. In the book, 6 stories were told in 2 parts each for a total of 12 micro-stories. It was a pretty elegant way to deliver the narrative without pulling the reader in too many directions or lingering within a story too long.

The movie didn't observe this format at all, opting instead to switch between stories as often as the scenes changed. I was never able to settle into anything before it changed again. It all just seemed hectic. That alone made it a very frustrating movie to watch. I kept wanting to scream "hold on a second!" but by the time they slowed down, the credits were rolling.

They could make an infinitely better film out of the existing one just with editing. I'd buy that on Blu-ray, but I don't think I could watch this version again without getting an aneurism or a heart attack.

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I haven't read the book, but from the synopsis I've read, the structure sounds kind of contrived. Frobisher can only find the first half of Ewing's journal, Luisa only has some of Frobisher's letters, Cavendish only has time to read the first half of the manuscript about Luisa, Sonmi is interrupted halfway through the movie about Cavendish... and then they all conveniently get to read/watch the second half of each other's stories in the second half of their own?

I'll have to read the (ruddy bloody) thing - I'm sure Mitchell makes it work - but the idea makes me roll my eyes a bit.

As for the film, I got so caught up in it on my first viewing that I didn't notice the choppiness. It was much more apparent the second time through.

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Yes, he makes it work, but that's because the structure isn't a problem. I'm not sure what you think the issue is, but you definitely ought to read the book. When you read it though, remember that the author didn't put anything there (or half there) by mistake.

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You guys are reading far to much into this pretentios mess of a movie. I guess you can find "deep" meaning in anything if you try hard enough. This film however? <shakes head>

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I was bothered by some of the more radical make-up-accidents, but I nevertheless liked the idea, that the actors play multiple roles. I didn't read the book and am not much into the whole "reincarnating souls thing", but the point that was thus made is, at least for me: there exist "life stories", or stereotypes of people or situations that happen over and over again (I think at one time Halle Berry even asks why we seem to repeat the same mistakes, or something like that). This is also prominently seen in the Soylent Green-joke, which shows that life imitates art, repeating itself even in the most obviously bad ways, as then seen in Neo-Seoul. And the same holds true for people. There will always be a need for someone to do the right thing. Others have done it before, and we need to do it again, if we come in situations where we see that things are not right. The film shows bad things that lie in our past, and how some moral individuals worked together to make them better, even as we must be aware, that our future will still hold lots of possibilities for wrongdoing. An everlasting struggle, which sometimes is supported by seemingly fleeting things like old letters or a piece of music. But if they touch the hearts of people then they pickup an immortal life of their own, improving the world through the ages.
Wow. That sounded cheesy ;-) But still, I like the movie especially for the fact that it inspires such thoughts in me.

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No they didn't go wrong because when you reincarnate you are the same soul but not the same person. For example in the present life I am a woman but in my previous past life I could have been a man, same goes for the future one etc. It's not necessary that you'll always be a man or a woman and of course it's not necessary to look the same in each life.

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