I am yet to pick up this book, but I love this adaptation (compared to the earlier ones).
Not sure if this is a stupid question, but in all sincerity and curiosity, what does Mr Knightley see in Emma?
All that they seem to do was to argue, and for Mr Knightley to scold Emma for her meddling etc. He seems her superior in every way, it seems.
Would love to have some insight.
I never understood this, either. The only thing I can imagine is that some men prefer silly airheads over whom they can feel superior.
shareHe loves her because she is a good daughter. She cares for her father, makes him comfortable, reassures him, helps him feel secure, etc. and she takes seriously her responsibility to the poor, infirmed, and neglected people of the village.
She does a lot of selfish things, too, but George can see past those things to her inner goodness. He almost gives up on her after Box Hill, because he perceives her behavior there as indicative of Frank’s influence over her and assumes it means she is in love with Frank.
No insight here...Austen made up the story and, for whatever reason, decided that it'd be interesting/provocative to have some older guy fall in love with a girl, 16 years his junior. The only reason given as best I can tell is that she's not reserved...like Jane F. I think Austen didn't care if anyone could figure out HIS reasons, it was written from the female point of view. He was just the hapless pawn in the story to entertain women who are intrigued by the thought of gaining the attention of an older, dominant, rich man.
shareI've not yet had the pleasure of seeing this adaptation (looking forward to doing so in the next few days), but I am a long-time lover of the book, perhaps Austen's finest novel.
I think, on long acquaintance with the story and the characters, we are meant to feel that Mr. Knightly's lifelong concern with Emma, combined with his appreciation of her cleverness and other good qualities - she is an admirable daughter and aunt, for example, great liking for her openness of temperament (he speaks of loving an open temperament, which Emma unquestionably possesses, in the novel), and the fact that she is always there - there really are no other interesting young women, other than Jane Fairfax, in the area - lead to his loving her, as the corollaries lead to Emma's loving Mr. Knightly. Nature abhors a vacuum, Austen novels require a happy ending for heroine and hero. So it is.
Oh, right. So, she secretly trained a flock of sandflies.
I agree with your summation, especially with it coming from the book. I've always thought the only bad thing he saw in Emma was her immaturity, which would surely change with her experiences.
However, I don't care for the way Emma is depicted in this series. To me she doesn't come across as much as "living in her own world" and her trying to make everyone happy based on what she, immaturally feels is in everyone's best interest. This Emma I find aggressively manipulative lacking the sweetness and silliness of other Emma's. Though she is my only complaint. I really am enjoying this adaptation.
I thought she did a good job of trying to make her father happy. I also liked the way she handled Mr. Weston. She always said something nice when he was bummed about Frank not showing up. I loved this depiction of Emma more than any other adaptation.
"What happens to a dream deferred?"
I agree with most of your points but this Emma, to me came across as wanting to hurt others for her amusement & gain. If that's true I don't see her as being very loveable. But perhaps this Emma was perceived that way by only me. Certainly wouldn't be the first time!!
shareEmma, to me came across as wanting to hurt others for her amusement & gain. If that's true I don't see her as being very loveable. But perhaps this Emma was perceived that way by only me. Certainly wouldn't be the first time!!
hmm.. I saw this after seeing both 1996 movies and some of the 1972 series. This was the first Emma that I didn't want to choke to death and actually sympathized with. Watch her scenes with her dad and with Mr. Weston closely, and I'll think you'll change your mind about her.
shareThis series is my introduction to "Emma" and I'm working my way through the book now so bear with me...I thought her kind treatment towards her father and Mr. Weston couldn't redeem her, after the way she treated Ms. Bates. It was such a contrast, I couldn't believe how she could act that way towards the poor woman.
Would she have been so remorseful if Mr. Knightley hadn't called her out? Seriously, at that point, I didn't like Emma very much until the scene where Mr. Knightley confessed to her.
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True North strong and free!
It's OK not to like Emma. Austen herself tells us that Emma is a heroine whom most people won't like.
Yes, she does insult Miss Bates (it's OK to say "Miss" because "Ms." did not exist back then) and yes, it was a nasty thing to do. But Emma does have some redeeming features. I truly believe that, deep down, she knows what she did was wrong. And, when Mr. Knightley calls her on it, and she's forced to admit she was wrong, she is on the way to becoming a better, somewhat more likeable, person.
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I always felt that (at least when reading the book) that her mean words to Miss Bates on Box Hill, where merely a misguided and foolish attempt to seem more carefree and joyous than she felt, as she was disappointed regarding Frank Churchill's attention to her.
She has always had to hide her disappointment, vexation or any negative feelings because of her father and his worrying nature. And never really being thus disappointed before, hadn't any learnt behaviour to counteract these feelings and it resulted in a real blunder towards Miss Bates.
And it's no doubt a terrible thing Emma did to Miss Bates, but haven't we all had a Miss Bates in our lives. Someone who talks all the time, and about nothing of any importance or interest? Who repeats the same things over and over again ad nauseam.
Can even the kindest, most caring people say that they haven't been annoyed by such a person even once?
Emma made a mistake. Several in fact. But she learns from them and tries to make amends. She has both good and bad qualities (as all humans do), but I find that the good ones outweighs the bad ones (and with Mr. Knightly by her side the good ones can only increase in size)
While it was unkind, I think it's a good example that sometimes, we all say or do something we feel terribly about later. None of us are perfect. We screw up. Emma did and she knew it and was sorry. She tried to make amends.
And it was this instance that she really starts growing up.
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Truth be told, I had to see you one more time, even if it was from a distance.
I accidentally deleted a really long reply that went into a lot of details and reasoning, examples and quotes and I cannot get it back. I don't want to rewrite it, so I'll boil it down to this: Emma is young and probably a bit stifled. She suffers from being sheltered and incredibly bubbly and definitely felt bad about her words and actions the moment she said them but since she is young at the time of the film/book, she acts childishly because she doesn't have the skills yet to mend fences right away.
Watch the mini-series again and think about how you were when you were, let's say 18 and how did you react when you got carried away? Did you apologize right away with 6 other people staring at you? Or did you wait until you could talk to them alone and make proper amends and try to ignore the situation/get passed it until you could?
She'd never really had to deal with saying the wrong thing before, having been taught how to say only the right thing and being "emotionally apart" from the things happening. She was always afar saying "those two will get married" but she was never involved directly until Kninghtley goaded her "achievements" and so this mini-series shows just how much she's grown and how she makes mistakes when she actually has to be in the thick of it. That's why they phrase it as "growing pains" because sometimes you do some stupid and rash things and you learn from it.
Ms. Bates' relationship with Emma was very complex and had so many layers, for Emma there was a bit of boredom of hearing the same thing over and over and over and over and over again and I was bored with Ms. Bates too after 4 hours, not 18+ years of it. That said, I don't think Emma meant to hurt her, she just got carried away with the game Frank had created and her words were meant in jest, not to inflict harm. He was an infectious personality and it was easy to get swept up in the moment and become someone you don't recognize until you do something you know is wrong and he's that infectious because he's (overall) so positively cheerful.
Also Ms. Bates also instilled a bit of inferiority into Emma by always speaking of the wonderful and perfect Jane but to Emma's credit, she admitted how wonderful Jane was whenever she deserved it and tried to be friendly and would have probably been friends had Frank not ran that scheme.
Knightley only added to Emma's guilt, she didn't make amends with Ms. Bates to please Knightley. No, I think she didn't even think about/realize how poor Ms. Bates really was or that Ms. Bates felt inferior to Emma in any way. I could come up with quite a few reasons why and some are really nice and favor Emma and some are dis-favorable for any person of a certain nature. I'd like to think it's because she looks upon Ms. Bates as almost a second mother and was so comfortable and used to her surroundings that it was just natural and she didn't give it a second thought, like growing up with only one parent or 3 dads or 7 moms or your grandparents. You don't question what's always been and is unlikely to change. (Look how she came to Harriet's rescue whenever anyone said that Harriet was "below" their station and not worthy of their time, Emma refused to see station for the most part, albeit the "farmer" bit was a bit strange and counter-productive to the argument, but perhaps that was more about lifestyle than wealth, e.g ew... animals, dirty! After-all she didn't like Knightley riding his horse...)
So, I definitely think Emma was a very realistic character and thought the actress did a brilliant job playing and interpreting her. We don't always like everyone all the time, people are people and do things that we dislike and things they regret later on and aren't always consistent. That's life. That's people and she was a very compassionate and caring girl who was always looking out for others and wanted them to be happy. Her view of happiness though at first was having people get married and it was only later that she realized that marriage wasn't everything.
*Can you believe this is the shortened version? lol
I think that it is VERY PASSIONATE to have two people arguing - Emma and Knightley, Lizzie and Darcy. Arguing brings PASSION. Would you rather have a relationship/marriage where everything is light and happy - BORING, or one where there is some PASSIONATE arguing. Emma and Lizzie CHALLENGE their men - something no other woman has done. Watch the scenes where they argue - notice how PASSIONATE and HEATED they get. :)
shareWould I and do I prefer a happy, light marriage!! Yes! And again yes!! My husband and I have been married 26 years and we have intense passion from our deep love and desire for eachother!! Imho, a marriage shouldn't have to depend on anger or perhaps "tricks" to attain hot, passionate feelings that consume one body and soul!! I certainly don't begrudge you your means to passion but please don't think that happy couples who communicate brilliantly don't have intense, mind blowing passion that causes your body to quiver in anticipation of being one!! Your obviously in the Elizabeth Taylor/Richard Burton tumultuous relationship camp. I have noticed though from my 4 sisters and friends that those relationships can't usually be sustained because the desire and passion doesn't come from any desire or love for the other and fighting for sex gets old, especially when the fighting starts to override the sex. I've never had or needed "makeup sex" to stoke my fires of passion or desire. But like I said, to each they're own. I certainly am not condemning what makes your marriage/relationship intense and enjoyable. I am simply pointing out that mine shouldn't be cast aside as passionless.
shareI think Emma is a very agreeable young lady. While her faults are obvious, she is a very accomplished woman. She is always cheerful, she can draw, play the piano, sing, dance, help the poor, is a good aunt, a good daughter, and tries to be a good friend. I think those are amiable qualities in any suitor's eyes? And yeah... Doesn't hurt that she's beautiful either ;) haha
shareHe has seen her growing up, from a 3 week old to adulthood, and I believe he just understands her well - even if he gets frustrated by her actions. And he was patiently hoping, all the time...
I can relate to that. I am irredeemably fond of a lady-friend who I've known since she was born (not family, but friends of the family). I was 14 at the time. Of course, the age difference always meant that any romantics would be quite tricky and potentially damaging the friendship, though by myself, I do wish things could turn out the Knightley/Emma way. Anyway, to see a person develop in front of your eyes, from a different perspective than being a father, may easily lead to some form of close kinship.
Please click on "reply" at the post you're responding to. Thanks.share
It's all summed up in the "almost hand kiss" scene. It may not be very clear in the series, but in the book it's quite obvious how much Mr. Knightly admires her for trying to right the wrong that she did to Mrs. Bates.
If I had done what she did and had gotten the scolding that she got, I would have gotten so depressed, shut myself up in my room and watched youtube, vines and stupid rom-coms (in regency era, I would have buried myself in sentimental novels) for days on end to avoid facing the real world again.
As a fellow clumsy blunderer and a very stupid smart person (if you know what I mean), I admire Emma for her bravery and determination to get it right.
Emma is my favorite Jane Austen book and IMO this 2009 BBC version comes closest to it (although still not nearly as good). I always thought Mr. Knightley loved how devoted Emma was to those she loves. She is very misguided in her attempts to make them happy, but her heart is always in the right place (except when she ridicules Mrs. Bates). She is also very high spirited while he is very calm and dignified. I always thought their personalities suited each other. And they have more friendly scenes in the book, when he is not scolding her.
"Winter is coming."