MovieChat Forums > The Trials of Ted Haggard (2009) Discussion > Haggard should take the consequences !

Haggard should take the consequences !

posted 15 years ago by darielles
13 replies | jump to latest

I'm not trying to be judgemental about Haggard's choices but honestly I do not feel sorry for him at all but I do have sympathy for his wife, family and his church. I understand people do have problems with certain tendencies but you can try to get help to prevent this from going any further. I think Haggard had that chance to get some help but it seems to me he did continued his sins for his own selfish reasons. I know everyone do sin and even preachers and men of the cloth do sin too but if you going to live a double life, you should worry about the people who are involved in your life and loves you the most. When you hurt those people they are the ones who are going feel deeply hurt and betrayed. I remember that Haggard said on the documentary that he felt he was somewhat homosexual at some degree before his marriage. I thought when he said that I was thinking why get married to a woman in the first place? Why lie about your sexuality? Even tho I do not agree with lifestyle of homosexuality but if you choose that lifestyle then I recommended to live the way you want even if you consider yourself as a homosexual or a bisexual or a heterosexual or a pansexual because you are true to yourself and to ones that love you. The choices he made he should take the consequences and he should satisfied that his wife of 29 years did chose to stay in the marriage and some of his friends had forgave him by lending their homes and money for free. Another thing I did not feel sorry about Haggard was him asking for donations from strangers but honestly who are going to donate a cheating former drug using preacher? Well it's not going to me. I think Haggard should expect that his church to exiled him because of his allegations were found positive because of his betrayal and his reputation puts them in a negative light. He should also expected some businesses and places are not hiring him because of what he did(because they do listen to the media), I do give him kudos for his optimisticism. He should have thought about his scandalous behavior before this ever happen.

[–] SugarGhost 15 years ago

I'm with you. Nicely said.

I was truly hurt inside when I saw the congregation in tears at the reading of his letter. Imagine having listened to the preaching of someone for years, trusting them, maybe even being counseled by them (And with the millions who've heard him via radio, conference, book, etc - I'm sure a lot of people were hurt by him) and suddenly they come out with the fact that they've committed such a horrible sin that he himself preached against.... oh the affect it would have on me personally would be incredible. I know I wouldn't take it well. I believe wholeheartedly in trying to give forgiveness as much as possible, but thats something I'd definitely have to reflect on for awhile to decide if I could forgive. He deceived those poor people. As I said in another post, I had never heard of him before all this muck. I don't follow the news, and don't listen/watch televangelists at all. Can't stand them honestly.. I had a pastor once who took it all to his head.. all the fame and money.. and he's what I'd say is a brainwashing pastor now.

To God all sins are equal. Murder, rape, drug usage, cheating on your wife, and a lie - all the same to Him. They are NOT the same to us. God asks us to forgive.. some things are just harder to forgive.

[–] darielles 15 years ago

Well thank you, I barely listen or watch televangelists at all and I can't stand them honestly either. But I can not stop from doing their task and everyone is not perfect. The problem with these televangelists and preachers in general is that they put themselves as these "perfect people" or "idols" or " Oh No, I had never sin in my entire life" or "I'm clean" and believed that everything they say is right and that is not of God. Yes, some of them (televangelists) are brainwashing people and it can be smothering. I disagree when preachers and ministers would preach the word like Haggard did and go do their evildoing behind their backs. I heard Haggard's services on web when he preached about doing drugs and having sex or relations with the same sex are wrong and he was doing both...it doesn't make anyone hesistate by someone calling him a hypocrite. Yes, he proved that he is one. You should not become a follower of the preacher but to God only. This doesn't mean that if Haggard or any other preacher sin then you should do the same. You can not follow them because that does not make feel or better as they are. What God wants us to do is to the better person within and to not be arrogant with it. To also understand these preachers and televangelists are human and can be vulnerable of the flesh. My friend's former pastor was preaching against domestic violence and even supported some funds for domestic abuse but then he beated his wife even in one case he beat his wife to death at a public parking lot. After that incident, most of his congregation left his church but I heard he is still preaching but his church will never forget what he has done to his wife. I agree you have to forgive and if you don't then you will be bitter but also you're human and you will have some hang-ups. Also I would like to bring his wife Gayle, she should be concerned or worried about her health (if she is still sexually active with her husband) because of her husband's drug using and extramartial affairs with prostitutes especially the male ones. Haggard got to understand that this is just the beginning of this harsh consequences.

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[–] joolztoolz 15 years ago

Its not a sin to be gay...its only your opinion. It is probably a sin to be hate-filled bigot though.

I believe wholeheartedly in trying to give forgiveness as much as possible, but thats something I'd definitely have to reflect on for awhile to decide if I could forgive.

In other you can't forgive. That's what Jesus was all about--and that's what Christianity is supposed to be about...forgiveness. Peace, Love & Understanding.

****

Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?...Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

****

You're not even close to what's supposed to be the Christian message. Forgive ya hypocrite.

To God all sins are equal. Murder, rape, drug usage, cheating on your wife, and a lie - all the same to Him. They are NOT the same to us. God asks us to forgive.. some things are just harder to forgive.

Tell it your maker when you kick the bucket--I'd start making up an excuse now. Try to come up with a good line--why you can't forgive this guy--who the hell are you anyway to judge anybody. Doesn't the Bible say "Judge not lest ye be judged"?.

[–] Pandjy 15 years ago

I actually have to say that I feel a bit sorry for him ... first let me tell you that the whole Evangelical Televangalist thing give me the creeps ... but listening to him talk .. I don't think that he was one of those I'm better and more holy than you guys.

I also think that he had a few good points 1) He has always acknowledged that people sin ... no, at first, he didn't admit that he sinned but he has since "come clean". 2) The basis of Christian faith is forgiveness .... what the heck - is there no forgivness for him? They excomunicated him and his family and kicked them out of the state?!?! Wasn't that a bit extreem? That is where the church became a business - instead of helping one of their own, they threw him away. I actually think that was the biggest sin.

<---- The original instant message

[–] lynne-gross 15 years ago

And let's excuse him for the millions of his listeners, that followed his lead to discriminate against someone that is born gay. Praise the... ignorant. sniff sniff

[–] Lakemystery3 15 years ago

I kind of feel sorry for him, too. The church that he founded turned its back on him. That having been said:

I find it hilarious when these Anti-Gay people lobby to pass laws that prevent gay marriage, politicians and religious leaders preaching that gay is wrong and evil and against God, are involved in a gay sexual scandal. I think it's great. I think there's something poetic and just about people being forced to play in the sandbox they helped to build.

_______
"She flattened a Dear John with a John Deere." - Douglas Wambaugh

[–] joolztoolz 15 years ago

I find it hilarious when these Anti-Gay people lobby to pass laws that prevent gay marriage, politicians and religious leaders preaching that gay is wrong and evil and against God, are involved in a gay sexual scandal. I think it's great. I think there's something poetic and just about people being forced to play in the sandbox they helped to build.

Actually, this is very well put. Its true. The guy preached against homosexuality and drug use for a long time it seems--while practicing both.

I, admittedly, watched this documentary to see a fallen evangelical leader's life. However, rather than condemn the guy--I felt terribly sorry for him and his family. They look like a really nice family.

Evangelicals and Christians needs kicks in the pants these days. The intolerance and hatred doesn't have anything to do with what the whole Christian message is supposed to be.

I just think its time to forgive the guy now. He has a terribly hard road ahead. We all pay the piper...there's no getting away from it.

He can't get work now--cause he's world famous. Famous for being a fallen preacher. Its too bad nobody's willing to give him another chance. It looks like the media is going to hunt him down like a dog in the street for the rest of his life.

He's worse off than a serial killer--they get locked up. Why? Because if you can't stop killing people, you have to be separated from society. You get television, three meals a day, some sunshine, and paper and pencils to write your memoirs down if you want to.

This guy has got to try to survive in society now. I wonder how he's supposed to do that exactly when he's world famous?

What's the proper punishment and how long does it last? Grind him and his family into the dust for the rest of their days?

I'm just trying to say that I took no pleasure whatsoever in watching this guy's fall from grace and hearing the attitudes of some of the people out there.

[–] dave10011 15 years ago

This attitude is why I left my denomination (a conservative one). The Bible talks about forgiveness and redemption. Obviously Ted should not have cheated on his wife (with a man or a woman) nor used drugs. But he said he was sorry and if God and his wife can forgive him, why can't other Christians. I understand why he would lose his job. In any job rule #1 is "don't make us look bad in front of clients/customers". But I can't think of anything more UN-Christian than wanting to punish this guy over and over when he is obviously in a lot of hurt. I'm not justifying what he did, but I think he has already been punished enough for it.

I hope God offers you more forgiveness than you offer to Ted Haggard.

P.S. It's weird that I would be defending him since as a minister he stood for everything that caused me to leave fundamentalist Christianity, but the documentary made me see him as a person. He's not someone I would want to be friends with (I think he's still in denial about his homosexuality and is never going to be whole until he accepts himself as he is) but he is a human and a little compassion is good both for him and for the rest of us.

[–] joolztoolz 15 years ago

I'm not trying to be judgemental about Haggard's choices but honestly I do not feel sorry for him at all...

In other words, your being judgmental.

If you don't feel sorry for this there's something wrong with you mentally.

I spent the entire time watching this almost crying for the guy and his family.

So, your going to watch this guy's family starve are ya? Do think your God is going to approve of that?

Your supposed to forgive people. Crack your Bible open to stupid idiot. Jesus didn't condemn anybody. He visited the poor and downtrodden. He befriended prostitutes and criminals--he sure as heck never said--oh well, they deserved it, its their problem...let them starve. They committed a crime--fark em. That's not Jesus's message. Its the opposite.

Another thing I did not feel sorry about Haggard was him asking for donations from strangers but honestly who are going to donate a cheating former drug using preacher?

You're missing the point of Christianity you stupid idiot. He overcame his drug problem--that's quite an accomplishment considering about less than 2 percent of meth users clean up. He confessed his "sins" to his church. That's more than you've done in your lifetime. How'd you like to get up in front of your friends, neighbours and the world and admit your dirty little secrets? And trust me, we all have 'em. It actually takes alot of courage and strength to move forward from something like that.

He can't work--you stupid idiot. Firstly, because many Christians believe homosexuality is a sin--they're not comfortable with the lifestyle so they figure God isn't either--even though there's no proof of that. You've transplanted your own bigotry onto what you think "God's Will" is.

How's he gonna get a job you idiot? He internationally known. If nobody ever forgives him or gives him a chance then he has to do something. Wait until you need charity. Maybe nobody will be around to help you.

If anyone can sit through this show and not have any compassion for him -- then there's something wrong with them mentally.

How dare you judge anybody. Hypocrite.

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[–] darielles 15 years ago

Rainkaren62 My friend's former pastor actually nearly beat his ex-wife to death (she survived the ordeal and doing fine) and the last time I heard about him that he serving probation was in trial for assault (and spend a few months jail somehow he had posted bail). J Chap80 I wasn't trying to be harsh it just that Haggard could have been honest about what he did because you know he denied what he did in the beginning of the rumors. I'm just saying that some of his congregation and friends are not swallowing what he did to his family easily or let's just say not in a "forgiving mood". I know he's human and we all screw up but agree with me or not if you going to represent as God's servant don't act like you never sin in your life or act like somebody that you're not because you can't go out and have your cake and eat too, simple as that. You have to sacrifices like for example movie stars and celebrities have to sacrifice their privacy so does married preachers and pastors will have to do the same. They gonna have to sacrifice sexual tendencies and extramarital relationships with others so they can be the true servants of God and be that example of their churches and communities. I pray for his family and hope the man can get some help.

For joolztoolz there is nothing mentally wrong for what I've stated. I agree we don't have the right to judge but that doesn't stop me from having my say, do you remember the 1st Amendment? So you think it's okay for your pastors to preach and teach you to not to use drugs and not to have sexual relations with the same gender as your own and he goes out behind his family's backs and has sex with men and using drugs and you know about it, what are you going to do just let him keep doing what's he doing? then you are a jackass for feeling sorry for him. While he was sleeping with men he was sharing the same dick that he shares with his wife and then go lied to her. So if you think that's okay for any person to do something like that, then something is mentally wrong with you. So you don't know or don't care for that matter that thousands of innocent lives are in jeopardy because of their cheating husbands and lovers are on the down low and are considered closeted homosexuals and sharing drugs use with diseased drug users is just as dangerous. I don't care how nice the man is what he did was dirty and wrong and selfish, honestly, the man is blessed to have a supportive family and some friends who forgave him. He should've been honest in the first place and yeah I said it he's a hypocrite whether you like it or not! And forgive that!