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Sure. I'm actually a big fan of B&R. Rises is definitely the worst Batman movie to date.
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MovieChat Forums > The Dark Knight Rises (2012) Discussion > [deleted]
I think the hyperbole police need to place you under arrest.
shareThat is a really ridiculous opinion. TDKR has a lot of flaws, but Batman & Robin is an abomination of filmmaking. A tragic tale of what can go wrong when you let big movie executives and toy companies make your movie for you.
Batman & Robin remains the most disappointing movie experience I ever had. It was embarrassing for everyone involved, and a few careers never recovered from that movie.
The main point I'm getting at is, Batman & Robin sucks in the worst kind of way, and it's WAY worse than The Dark Knight Rises.
and why is it an abomination?
shareIt is a farce. Two hours of puns about ice, one liners, bat credit cards, weird and pointless butt and nipple shots, annoying characters, wooden characters, horrible acting, no laws of physics (sky gliding from exploding spaceship, where did they hide the ice skates before they clicked their heels together? Robin jumping off a ledge and floating across the room to grab the spaceship), and so many more reasons...I'll be here all night if I type all the things wrong with this movie.
The only thing I slightly enjoyed about this movie was Michael Gough's Alfred, who tried like hell to make people care about at least one character with an emotional core.
Batman & Robin is dogshit, and it always will be.
have you counted the puns in The Dark Knight?? lol
shareI cant agree but surprise you have supporters. What I mainly dont like about Batman and Robin is George Clooney. What mainly I dont like about Rises is Bale, cat woman and the terrible story line yet its still better made than batman and robin though I did enjoy it and its a more relax and enjoy film than the dark and depressing Rises. If you feel that way. Who's to say the contrary?
shareExplain the terrible story? Also choose your words carefully because I have listened to every nit pick about this film and I have never heard a single legit complaint.
shareWe forget about the joker story as rises continues. Catwoman's story is completely forgettable as we dont even have a back story as how or why she back a catwoman. She is basically a common criminal with halloween ears. Batman's depressing and hiding story is forgettable and short lived without much build up. Bane's story is completely plot holed and never really explained as it switched to something else. We are never explained why he is soldiers and why they follow him blindly and loyally. Just that somehow he is stronger and tougher than everybody else as if that makes him an automatic Mastermind leader. Hardy is wrong the role because we constantly see a body double and barely understand what he's saying. There is not much of real connection between dkr Bane and real Bane. When Bane beats the shit out of Batman no man would ever recover from that and magically walk again and then climb the completely fictional cave all the way up in a matter of months. Then in enough time to come back when they are about the fragile bombs are about to detonate as if they were waiting for him recover. Then by a simple batwing which wasnt suppose to be waiting for hime deactivates the tanks they were going to easily kill all the cops standing their like idots that somehow survived months of hunger and water starvation in the underground. I can go and on for days...
shareI don't agree with the rest, but I agree with this: "Bane's story is never really explained as it switched to something else."
That was a big WTF moment in the movie for me. They intertwined Bane's story with Talia's and the focus shifted.
Why the hell did they even have Talia in this movie? It wasn't well executed at all. From the moment she is revealed to be Talia to the moment in which she dies, she is terrible.
It wasnt just a wtf moment. It went with how terrible the movie was. She was a girl but when they give Bane story they give her story confusing the viewer on purpose and to add to the effect they make the girl ambigious looking like a boy. Which was totally pathetic and undermining mind you. Then one stupid brick falls after another. Bane did all that pardon my language for no pussy. SOme how this bad mother fucker who killed everything in his path had the soft spot for this girl for no exchange. SHe fucked Bale because she wanted to kill him because he heroically killed her villianous father that she hated but she didnt fuck Bane out of love though he saved her and got brutalized in the process and despised in the process. Continuing, The baddest mother fucker in the film's story is disregarded and dismissed out of nowhere as some unrequited dweeb. Then somehow stupid catbitch has a change of heart and comes as always at the last second at the right time to kill bane to save batman. In the entire ride she easily went into the building none of bane's goons blocked her entrance and he didnt see her driving in a mile away to dodge her or kill batman before she went in. Of course oldmans cops stopped the bomb in the exact second Talia dedonates it. I can go on and on for days...
shareFair warning these will be Spaceace2001 aka ultimatehippo's retorts.
A.) You didn't understand the film pay attention next time.
B.) You're in the minority look at it's rating on imdb and the fact that it made a billion dollars.
C.) He will straw man and say you never corrected the haters who made stupid points therefore you agree with them. Holding you accountable for words you didn't even say.
D.) I'm still not convinced. In other words implying that in order for you to have a legit point against the film you need his approval.
Don't say you were not warned. You heard it here first.
Fair.
A.) He's going to have to do a fair job.
B.) I resort to the batman classics to shut him up. The new ones cant top them in anyway.
C.) I did correct them, they just started running and got I ran out of asses to kick.
D.) I'd slap him so hard that it'll convince his zombie brain.
And I see it as followed.
1. The Joker was in the previous film not TDKR. TDKR was about Bane and Talia's plan to get revenge for the death of Ra's. Not having the Joker in it isn't a terrible story, Nolan wanted TDKR to stand on it's own and not have to depend on Ledger's Joker. This point is debunked
2. We didn't need a backstory on Catwoman just like we didn't need a backstory on The Scarecrow or The Joker. We had enough information on Selina, she was a master thief who wanted to start over and lead a better life but then in the end she came back and did what was right and not for her own selfish reasons. She had a great character arc.
3. His "hiding story" being terrible is just your subjective opinion. I thought it had great build up
4. There is no plot hole on Bane's story. He was born in the prison and he was the one prisoner for fought for young Talia when the other prisoners wanted to rape her. After he helped her escape Ra's came back, pulled him out and allowed him to join the League of Shadows but Ra's had to excommunicate him later because he saw only a monster in Bane and was a reminder of the hell that he left his wife to die in. Even though Ra's kicked him out Bane still owed him his life which is why he and Talia decided to avenge him. No plot hole at all, you just need to pay attention. Bane also isn't just strong, he is also very smart. One reason why he can push himself longer and harder is because his mask delivers a painkiller to his face that blocks out pain which allows him to push himself harder.
5. I never saw a body double. Tell you what, let me know what scene you are having a hard time understanding Bane and I will spoon feed you what he says.
6. The only real difference between comic book Bane and TDKR is TDKR Bane doesn't use Venom. He was overall a faithful adaptation of the comic book character.
1. This is the TDKR, Meanings its a continuation of TDK for it not to him is to ignore the whole story line which is a trilogy. Of course I just remembered this idiotic thing somehow does have the faggot scarecrow but not the joker because of Heath's death and not the joker. Plot HOLE! The entire movie is a continuation of it. They mentioned two-face and Half of the movie is about The commisoner's regret from the previous film.
Nolan is a terrible and flawed writer. He should stick directing.
Your point is debunked because it doesn't matter what Nolan wanted. The story is a plot mess and many fans complained about it and it showed as it was inferior to the dark knight in everyway and considered the weakest of the three. If Nolan wants to create films for himself that's fine he can go watch them at his mansion but when he is creating films for the fans He better do what we want!
Your counter was heavily weak!
2. Pawned! Who said we dont need a back story on Catwoman the fact they actually gave one compared to ones you mentioned does prove she did. Nolan just dropped the ball on this one and made her a sex kitten which failed. SHE IS THE WORST CATWOMAN OF ALL-TIME! Bar none and her romance with Bale had no build up or suspense thus nobody cared if they ended up together or not.
3. His "hiding story" is great build up is your opinion but also a flawed story. Nobody is interested in characters they cant relate to or have no actual story. Might as well watch crayola colorings.
4. Rape? I dont think they mentioned that. I think they just implied they wanted to capture her. Strange idea.
Yea I believe a girl Talia can jump from meters of rocks to meters of rocks around a cave to top and somehow Bane couldnt and batman had a hard time doing. Yea, I buy that.
He owed his life to Ra' not to Thalia so there was no reason to join her. Plus the league of shadows are extremely selfish and group orientated there was no reason to go individual or join her. NOT ONE. Plot Hole!
The mask is another plot hole. Nolan didnt create Batman nor bane so why make bane any different? He made his mask a painkiller instead of steriods which is what it is. His mask is never explained in the entire movie and it throws fans off as saw it as way to pump him up not a weakness to which faggot batman attacks. Even though Bane is probably strong enough to fight through it. Also Ra' excoummunicated him because he had a thing for Thalia himself and couldn't bare it. Which was kinda jealous homo if you ask me.
5. It's called movie tricks. Hardy is not that big or build. Whenever they showed off Bane's Body they used a double and a lot in fight scenes. Bale is probably he's height if not taller and they couldn't have the massive steriods Bane appear the same as batman. It wouldn't add up. Though Hardy played it well they missed casted him. They should've just used the body double that way he gets the credit he fully deserves.
Not only me. The whole world had a hard time understanding a robbotic vader cheap imatation. They had to go back and redub that crap. Nolan's creation of batman was probably under a coke phase to make that crap up. It was a massive let down klunk.
6. No He wasn't. Now I know you're full of shit and just on Nolan's nuts. When the fuck is it ever implied he's a wrestler or that he was in prison or a kingpin or even actually out muscles bat? When he beats him they use the multiple fighteers back story and then batman just single handley beats him for no reason like a bitch. We never actually see him make any smart decision and in the end all the credits goes to Talia anyway, he is just seen as a henceman. The bomb took months and months to deactive. The city and the cops survived. The one who put an end to his plan survived though he had him in his hands. Catwoman betrays him and kills him. Talia leaves him like a piece of junk and never gave him the time of day. Where is he actually smart, successful, or actually strong in combat?
6. Ummmm what are you replying to? My previous #6 was: "6. The only real difference between comic book Bane and TDKR is TDKR Bane doesn't use Venom. He was overall a faithful adaptation of the comic book character." Seriously dude at you 10 years old or mentally challenged? Your inability to construct a logical, English sentence makes me very suspicious. Re-write your #6 statement in proper English and then I'll give it my due attention.
If you are referring to Batman defeating Bane in the second fight it's not because Batman was stronger it's because he fought smarter and knocked the tube out of the mask.
Bane made plenty of smart decisions, he and Talia were equal partners in the plan. Bane was more of a field commander/general and made most of the tactical decisions, he is very much not a henchman.
Uh they never deactivated the bomb, Batman had to fly it out over the bay where it detonated, again you need to pay better attention.
Catwoman was never loyal to Bane, she was never even in league with Bane, the reason she was involved was because Daggett said he'd give her the Clean Slate for stealing Bruce Wayne's fingerprints.
Where is he smart? The Plane Heist, the stock exchange, him rallying the entire city of Gotham against the rich, his philosophy of the pit which is basically he is going to torture people by breaking their spirit by making them think that they can escape when they really can't which will cause them to sink into despair and hopelessness.
Dude TDKR is seriously way too deep for you, maybe you should stick with Batman and Robin, it's clearly closer to your intelligence level.
6. Again, stay off Nolan's nutts. He has a wife. There are huge differences in both bane's if you actually read the books instead of the special features in the dvd of Nolan's back story you'd see that neither Bane have much in Common besides a few reference points.
Yea sure, it was because he fought smarter by backing him into a corner and throwing a bunch of punches that made no sense why this Bane was backing down when in before he was pressing.
If the Mask was to prevent pain why was he defenseless when he hit the mask? He wasn't weak at the moment and had no reason to take Ansthesia. He'd continue fighting without the need of the mask and if he was so strong why would he need the mask to begin with? Totally stupid.
Catwoman was with Bane because she led Batman to Bane and had she not been she would've never escaped multiple times. Bane also had the power to wipe her state clean and doggy her.
Anybody that knows about planes knows that that plane scene is farfettched and anybody that knows about law enforcement knows that wouldn't have been enough for them to trick the police of who was involved and what happened.
Another bullshit. The stock exchange. Somehow though they are completely surrounded with no escape by cops and swats they easily escape like a canal just because they have some passangers in their bikes. Most cops dont follow them and most easily escape. Gee why did I think of that. I should go rob banks now. Then somehow the dumb police all lose track of bane because of batman who is really a hero instead of at the very least divding their forces. Ooh I forgot there isn't enough cops in Gotham to do that. Nothing in his plan reeks of intelligence. He goes in. They have guns and soldierse hidden. He says a couple of lines then he says lets go and they leave. Where's the smarts in that?
Him rallying? As if that's ever explained. Firstly he forces ssince he has the guns and the weapons. Secondly throughout the movie people blindly follow him for no reason. It is never explained why he has so many followers especially since he coldy kills them and doesn't care about them.
The evilness of his despair plan is original or smart and he didn't invent it. It was passed down to him by his pain of the pit. But this laughable intelligent plans of yours ultimately failed because gotham succeeded and he died.
For you think any of this is intelligent I feel sorry for you. Were dropped when your a child and then taken to disabled schools where they made you feel special? You really have a longs way to go.
How is this movie deep? It's actually quite sad so many stupid empty people think it's deep.
Did I miss something? Did you stop at six? Your clearly getting weaker and weaker. Dumber and dumber. Perhaps you should start drinking some of that Nolan Venom cumman.
other than the early Harry Potter films I can't think of a single film that is a straight adaptation of the work it is based on. Even a great film like One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest strayed very far from its source material. the fact that Bane doesn't have venom is an alteration that Nolan made to make Bane fit within his universe which is a universe where Batman can exist in the real world. "The mask keeps the pain at bey" so yes the mask was explained again you need to pay closer attention. Also learn how to spell "Talia"
5. Um yeah most action movies don't have their actors perform their own stunts, this is nothing new. Roger Moore used a stunt double is pretty much all of the Bond films he was in. Harrison Ford used a stunt double as well in Temple of Doom. Bale is considerably taller than Hardy so Hardy wore lifts in many of the scenes he was in with Bale. "Missed casted him", WTF are you trying to say? Again take a language/writing class you moron. The body double can't act thus the reason why Tom Hardy was playing Bane, he was a professional actor while some body builder you pull off the street can't act the part. You really don't know what you're talking about and you really suck at this.
4. Your realm of possibility. Why didnt they just rape Wayne and made him their bitch since they all knew who he was and how rich he was.
Yea but why? what were they after? It is not told as the story sucks and if it had been raped what a great movie batman movie to watch. A character for kids that has raping a little girl and her mother.
Why did Bane save Talia?
Yea which is false. Anybody could make it with or without the rope. The idea that the fear is going to make you jump higher is beyond stupid and that Talia a little girl could jump higher than Bale who even had the rope as safety is childish. Then somehow Talia a little girl could make huge lumps of leaps that somehow all the other adults prisoners couldnt. Did she eat her early morning cereal too?
That's an opinion that if you rouse you'd be a different person.
wtf?? He didn't do it for Ra' that was a lie and misdirection. He was doing it for Talia. WHy would he do it for Ra' if he was ousted? That makes no sense at all and since when Bane paid any of his debts or was so honorable? Bullshit!!!
Yea bad interpretations and adaptations. Bane's Nolan was frown upon and a total disaster saved for Hardy's performance.
Then you've got to see better work and have a lot road ahead of you. But Batman still didnt fit in the real world just like this didnt fit in the real world. You have to yet to disprove how is any of this remotely possible. Several people know who Batman is but isn't publiciest. 2 Face survives a bomb and is walking in days killing important people. The joker survives a bomb in the prison untouched while everyone around him is dead. Batman survives a bomb in the middle of the sea where there is no escape. Study bombs and not Bat fiction bombs and then come back to me how these losers would survive that shit. If these faggots fall on their steps they'd be out of film making for several weeks and come back with a limp.
What pain is kept at bay? Real Bane didn't have pain and did have strong backstory so this is a very poorly adaptation and written character. If so different why not just make his own movie and not fuck batman and its real true fans?
In case you haven't noticed I vary my spellings, grammers, and structure to keep myself entertain cuz i could give a fuck about arguing with an infantile mind.
5. Hahahahaa. My piont exactly. They missed casted him. He was too short and didnt have the body needed to play bane just put him in their for his face. If they are going to use the other guy's body for most of the movie why not just give him a shot let him act and I doubt they pulled them off the street that you were trolling for foodstamps. If not hire another actor. I doubt the part required that much acting at all if they even dubbed his poorly voiced lines. Even with all those missteps he was still better than the phoned in bale. I dont even want to get into the badly acted girls.
You're really getting your ass handed and you should wipe Nolan's cum off your face because your really starting to spit at the screen.
Dark knight rises may have some issue but no way Batman and Robin is better than TDKR. B&R is just a bad movie. TDNR is movie with some issues.
shareIf you take into content that B&R was intentionally meant to be bad while TDKR was meant to be seriously good who'd see the funny irony why it's better.
share1. Clearly you didn't pay attention because the events of TDK had a profound impact on TDKR, Rachel and Harvey's death especially. The reason that Gotham was in the situation that it was in was because of what happened in the previous movie. Most of your "point" is simply your poorly conveyed subjective opinion. You clearly don't understand TDKR if you think the events of TDK are completely ignored. The Joker wasn't mentioned because Nolan thought it would be disrespectful to Heath Ledger and TDKR needed to stand on its own and not bank on references to the previous film(s) which is all that the current SJW Star Wars films do.
2. OK I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here, rewrite this point in proper English and then I will give it my due attention. We knew all we needed to about Catwoman, a full backstory wasn't necessary. Point debunked another round for SpaceAce
3. More subjectivity and piss poor English. Learn how to write you moron.
4. OK I think it's well within the realm of possibility that consider Talia and her mother were the only women down there the other prisoners had rape on their minds. If you choose to think that they didn't fine it doesn't affect the story, all we need to know is that they wished harm upon them and Bane saved Talia. Talia didn't have the rope when she jumped, she knew she was dead if she didn't make it (as did Bruce), that was the whole point of the pit, you needed your fear of death to escape and if you were able to rise from the pit you were a completely different person. Sounds like the symbolism of the pit went straight over your head.
They were trying to avenge Ra's death, Ra's pulled Bane out of the pit and therefore Bane felt that he owed it to Ra's to fullfill his destiny, not a plot hole, learn what a plot hole is.
Tom Hardy's Bane was Nolan's interpretation of the character, I am sure you have seen several adaptations of previous works that have had things altered or changed, other than the early
1. Heath wasn't the joker. Heath played the joker. Actors have been replaced as characters and people have died. There was no reason whatsoever not to at the very least give him an off mentioned. Just poor writing which is consistant in the film.
HA! It needed to stand on its own?!! So why name it the dark Knight= Rises? and why have the same actors play the same roles? Batman since has been redone. He couldve just rebooted it like so many have done. For instances Spiderman. That concept is stupid.
Not really because star wars does have pauses in between and so what if they do it? it is called star wars. Thus a continuation of a storyline, if not do your seperate story and seperate movie dont hog the name for box office's sake.
2. No you knew all what you needed to know. Nobody liked her, she sucked, and so did her story. She will never out do Michelle Point proven.
Point for bigbadwolf666
3. Given I copied your sentence word for word. You need to learn how to argue and how to lose you Nolan's little dwarf!
7. You do realize that Bruce has overly exaggerated abilities? That's the point? Kind of like how Indiana Jones can get his face beaten multiple times, undergo torture and getting shot and push on. Plus Bane didn't actually break his back, he dislocated a vertebrae and Prison Alfred did exactly what you are supposed to do, pop it back into place and then have the patient get plenty of rest which is what happened. He didn't "magically walk", he spent months recovering again you need to pay attention.
8. When Bruce escaped from the pit the bomb went off in 23 days, when he got back they had one day. It took him over 3 weeks to get back.
9. The cops didn't survive months of hunger, there was a scene showing Bane delivering food and supplies to them, they were well fed, PAY ATTENTION!
10. As for the Batwing, I'm not sure what you're trying to say as you clearly struggle with constructing a proper English sentence but the last time Bruce was in Gotham he met Selina in the sewer and then was taken by Bane to India. He probably got to Gotham using the Bat and he parked it and camouflaged it on top of that building (in a very well done reference to Thunderball).
So it looks like all of your complaints have been cleared up. TDKR doesn't have plot holes, it doesn't have story issues. It just has a very lazy, small, yet vocal group of haters who seem to think its cool to nitpick it to death.
My advice is either stick with films that don't require the viewer to think or pay attention next time you watch a film. If you have any more questions though I will be happy to answer them.
7. HAHHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAA. If you a drop any man like that he'd never walk again. The entire fight seemed like a cartoon. Every blow Bane gave would've killed anyman. Is batman not a man? Did he somehow turn into superman to which I missed? Get real. The whole premise of batman is that he is a man just gifted through wealth and is able to take advantage because of his gadgets. It is never given that he has superman ablities which is why movies like these are pure trash.
Yea months recoverying just in time for him to save all of gotham from a nuclear blast. Spare me the cartoon drawings even the animated series had a lot better writings than this junk.
That's why I never liked Faggot Indy and he's movies are just kid candy but batman's Nolan is supposed to be taken somewhat serious but in all reality it fails. What's your juvenile explaination when batman falls for a dozen stories with Rachel and falls on top of a taxi with a taxi cab and nothing happens except cracked windows? Or when he is being stabbed in the ribs by the joker and continues to fight like its nothing. Or when 3 rottweilers are biting his arms and he easily beats all of them in a matter of secs with the joker included?
8. Yea, just at the right moment at the right time. Just like when Bane is about to blow the cops into smitherings the batwing just shows up does some gadget crap and disables ALL of the tanks that easy and probably the guns as well too! Wow batman must be an alien because he has otherwordly technology and not surprisingly he can walk and fight and beat a guy he couldnt when he was full strength but this time he did after spending days in a hell hole without proper living conditions while Bane was feasting.
9. HHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHA that one took the cake. I never saw that scene and if it did happen what a gentleman is Bane. They should've made him Major right after he murdered two entire football teams.
10. Yeeeaaa ass I ammm laughing half the time reading your caricatures. He probably? Now your stretching it and hiding Nolan's fuck ups to induce your fantasies into reality. Get of crack and back on your meds before you watch this crap or your bound to fill in holes that aren't there attacking people on boards in desperate attempts to save this deadbat.
If you happen to read your fantasy version of The Dark Knight, you'll realize that you didn't clear up jack instead just went along with the same plot holes that were already clear. It's not nitpicking if it's a big part of the story and it's an obvious flaw. Like the stupid scene when the nuclear weapon detonates with Batman all by himself and the batwing and he just somehow fixes the ejection seat that isn't shown on camera because reality would be so laughable as obviously he'd be powder with the rest of the premise.
I didn't have questions to you as these are obvious flaws in the film. I do much rather watch Burton's Bat as it does actually have a back story, Even yes, Jack Nipper, and yes it's more enjoyable without having to figure out what actually is from plots that aren't even completed and then there other films I enjoy dramas filled with nice thoughtful and coherrent dialogue that somehow makes sense. Some that some of these have actually been in. Like Taboo, Equlibibrum, Harsh Times, Swing Kids, Laurel Canyon, and the list goes and on but on this most of these deadbeats phone it in.
Moviefanatic, do you now understand what I mean when I say Nolan haters are generally very stupid?
shareAnd I am going to ask you why is this any of my concern? I did not make these points therefore it is not my job to correct them. Thing is when I said I did not like TDKR you cast a generalization onto me before I even made a point. It is juvenile to cast a generalization onto me when you did not even hear my points out. The debate was between the two of us these people have nothing to do with our debate period.
shareDark knight rises may have some issue but no way Batman and Robin is better than TDKR. B&R is just a bad movie. TDNR is movie with some issues.
shareWhat the guy said is not your concern hat is correct, I don’t think I ever said it was your job to correct him. I am pointing out that this is proof that most Nolan haters are stupid. The reason I am still talking to you is because I recognize you have beyond a 3rd grade reading level and you aren’t a complete waste of time like bigbadwolf who can’t even compose a logical sentence.
It seems I was right all along
No way it is not. Batman and Robin is one of the badly written and made movie. May be as a 10 year old kid i liked as this is the first Batman movie i ever watched straight from 66 batman. But now when i watch it is so irritating like how annoying Robin was, changing batgirl's story, Poison Ivy and Bane was boring. Sets are bad. I would not say that to Batman Forever as it is not a worst movie. They just went on different path.
On other hand Dark knight Rises is not a bad movie. Some may not like the direction it went including me. This is not the sequel Dark knight deserved. They made Bruce a guy who is mourning for 8 years. Some plot holes here and there. Catwoman and John Blake could have been writter well. But it is not a bad movie.