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"Why would the League of Shadows attack a peaceful city?"


Since the boards are closing, I thought I'd address this common criticism one last time.

The LoS doesn't care if a city is "at peace" or not. They care about destroying centers of decadence and corruption. And in their eyes, Gotham had been that for decades.

The reason Gotham was so crime-ridden in BB was BECAUSE of the LoS. People often forget this. "Create enough hunger and everyone becomes a criminal." The LoS created the depression that allowed Gotham's underworld to thrive. People act like all the League cared about was crime. Nope. Crime was a TOOL that they used to try to destroy Gotham. But because of people like Thomas and Martha Wayne, Gotham had "limped on ever since."

All that crime-talk from Ra's in BB was just his way of getting Bruce on board (since Bruce cared about crime). But the LoS wasn't opposed to "crime" (in and of itself). It was opposed to decadence and corruption (which can lead to crime). This is made abundantly clear.

To review: The LoS identifies Gotham as the center of decadence and corruption in the world. They create an economic depression that allows Gotham's underworld to thrive (in an effort to destroy the city). Some of Gotham's rich decide to "fight back" by doing things for the poor. Gotham "limps on." Bruce is chosen by the LoS to finally destroy Gotham. He rejects this mission. Ra's al Ghul takes matters into his own hands. Bruce defeats him. Gotham survives... for now.

In TDKR, the League is operating under the same MO that they always have. Like their predecessors, they CAUSED the incident that would ultimately lead to Gotham's undoing (at least that's what they hoped). They used class warfare (and a bomb) to ultimately finish the job.

Plus, it's important to understand that the LoS wouldn't accept the narrative of the Dent Act. It was based on the OBVIOUS lie that Batman murdered the city's "white knight." So even if they didn't know the exact details regarding what actually happened when they put their plan in motion, you can be assured that they intended to find out and use it against Bruce.

When you take all of this into consideration, it makes perfect sense that the LoS wouldn't "give up" on their mission to destroy Gotham.

| The Five-Star Man || The Golden God |

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Uh, I definitely missed something then. This part in particular confuses me.

The LoS identifies Gotham as the center of decadence and corruption in the world. They create an economic depression that allows Gotham's underworld to thrive (in an effort to destroy the city).


The LoS caused Gotham to be the center of decadence and corruption, correct? So how could they have already viewed it that way? Or is it basically a case of "Let's make this huge city with one bad layer incredibly bad all around to excuse destroying it?". I guess they're written to be contradictory and insane?

They're bad guys after all so I guess that's fine. But even Batman's nutty plan seems like it would've occurred to them before "Let's put all our efforts into making this place 10x worse than it already is, then destroy it".

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I'd love to see you in the moonlight with your head thrown back and your body on fire.

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They basically turned it into a crime-ridden city, but they believed it to be decadent and corrupt before that. And "decadence and corruption" doesn't NECESSARILY lead to crime. But it can. It just means that the people there are... decadent and corrupt.

But yes, they are villains, so we're not supposed to empathize with them entirely.

I think the idea is that they're there to "expose" the depravity that they believe already exists within the city.

| The Five-Star Man || The Golden God |

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All that crime-talk from Ra's in BB was just his way of getting Bruce on board (since Bruce cared about crime). But the LoS wasn't opposed to "crime" (in and of itself). It was opposed to decadence and corruption (which can lead to crime). This is made abundantly clear.


This is an interesting take I'm not sure I ever got before. When you say "made abundantly clear", are you referring to the decadence and corruption part (with which I'll agree easily) or the "LoS wasn't opposed to'crime'" part (which I might buy into, but don't think was made abundantly clear, in any case)?

All of Ra's' discussions with Bruce about crime seem sincere and somewhat grounded in the personal (I refer you to his reference his wife).

I see two answers to the complaint about LoS coming after a peaceful Gotham in TDKR, and they both intertwine with your explanation to some extent.

First, peaceful is not necessarily crime free. This is alluded to from the opening scenes. Gordon is the poster child for this tension - his gut vs. the crime stats. The corruption and crime in TDKR's Gotham has moved into the financial sector, replacing the destroyed mob in the corrupting influence on government. (Ironically, it is both a strength and a weakness of the film that this is not spelled out more bluntly.)

Second, this is not your father's League of Shadows. Bane (and Talia, but primarily Bane) have a different take on everything than Ra's, and Bruce is the primary target, not a tactical obstacle.

But, yeah, the LoS was not really focused on street crime (organized crime is different), and repeated variations of its attacks make use of crime/criminals as a tool to bring down the city.




"Morbius, something is approaching from the southwest. It is now quite close."

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I was referring to the decadence and corruption part. Every time he talks about the League's never-ending mission, he talks about how they act as a check against specifically decadence and corruption. And in TDKR, Gotham still had those (in spades).

| The Five-Star Man || The Golden God |

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I've enjoyed reading your posts on TDKR and having a few good discussions over the years. Take care, Man.




"Morbius, something is approaching from the southwest. It is now quite close."

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You as well! I'm at that "new" IMDb forum. It's worth checking out if you haven't already. It has over 1300 members, so it's growing pretty fast.

http://imdb2.freeforums.net/

| The Five-Star Man || The Golden God |

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That complaint has always been one of the absolute stupidest. Do they really think that if Ras saw Gotham in Rises, He'd say "Whoops, I was wrong, EVerything I said about Gotham being beyond saving? Total 180. If only they enacted harsher penalties on organized crime everywhere, Balance would be restored and I could finally retire".

Anyways excellent post, Good luck in all future endeavors.

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Well even though it was peaceful Bane and the LOS saw it as a corrupt city (which it kind of was in a way), but more importantly they wanted to full fill Ra's al Ghul's destiny which was the destroy Gotham as a way to honor him and avenge his death. That and make Bruce watch as his city burns meaning that all of his hard work over the past 15 years (7 before the events of BB and 8 between TDK and TDKR) was for nothing.

I think you are also missing the point that Bane was leading "a gang of psychopaths".

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