MovieChat Forums > Luftslottet som sprängdes (2010) Discussion > Surely the most ungrateful character in ...

Surely the most ungrateful character in film history (spoilers)


So let me get this straight, Blomquivst risks his life, the life of his colleagues and his magazine to prove Lisebeth's innocence and she can't even be arsed to say thank you to him or her lawyer??? Blomquivst risked everything, went above and beyond the call of duty to save her and she skulks off without a bye or leave?

Possibly the least sympathetic character I've seen in film. It must be a family trait as her half brother is probably the least impressive villain I've ever seen in film either, he has all the on screen charisma of a wet lettuce...

It ruins a reasonably good film...

reply

I look at this from the opposite perspective. Mikael does all of this because he is grateful from Lisbeth saving her life. He knows Lisbeth's personality, and that she has an incredible shell to break through.

In one of his little speeches in The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, he points out that he knows nothing about her, but she knows everything about him. She answers -- "That's the way it is." That is his reward for his efforts -- now he knows everything about her. It will take some time for them to become friends as we all understand the term, but it will probably happen. The greater shame is that we will never see that develop in the lost seven books.

reply

what lost 7 books? are u saying it was meant to be 10 v0lumes. But it would have been great if the 4th one was released considering it was almost done

reply

The rumor is that when Steig Larsson dropped off these three books to his publisher, he promised a total of ten books. He was partway through book four when he died. For legal reasons, it is possible that the fourth book will never be finished.

reply

I couldn't agree more! I got so sick of her self indulgence by the end of this movie. Yes yes we know you've been though a lot of horrible stuff, but would it have actually killed you to just say thank you to Micke instead of just slouching off like a grumpy teenager?

reply

"I couldn't agree more! I got so sick of her self indulgence by the end of this movie. Yes yes we know you've been though a lot of horrible stuff, but would it have actually killed you to just say thank you to Micke instead of just slouching off like a grumpy teenager?"

Read up a bit on Asperger's Syndrome (I'm sure you can get a summed up version on wikipedia). That, combined with her upbringing, make understanding Lisbeth, and her actions, much easier.

"Religion is the opiate of the people" - Karl Marx

reply

Unlike some of you, I take the time to read all the replies in a thread Im interested in.
Its clearly stated SEVERAL TIMES - in the original cut she DOES say 'thank you', I just watched her do it.
Whether or not you have the E.I to assertain her(at the very least) introverted and borderline Autistic traits(and what this means), surely even tho you may be lacking in this area, you could take 10mins to look it up on google.

Question to the people who are so negative and possibly lacking basic EI - would you rather she had recovered completelly, after a lifetime of abuse at the end of the last movie, like some sort of super woman? You people baffle me, simply put.

reply

I agree, this movie would have been a million times better if it ended with Blomkuivst making out with Salander as they ride to the sun set on horses.

reply

I don't think so. In my view the ending is spot on and more realistic than riding into the sunset. Lisabeth remains the old Lisabeth, but now obviously emotionally bound to Mikael, and vice versa. They are too different and as a couple not a material for a long lasting relationship other than friendship. Mikael is Lisabeth's first love, and let's leave it at this.

Another thing is that this ending is closer to the book than your proposal.

reply

[deleted]

somebody has a broken sarcasm-radar. is it a Swedish thing? :X

reply

[deleted]

Not to seem to be negating the other good responses, but even if what you say is true, this ruins the film precisely why???? Don't ever watch Mike Leigh's Naked. Lisbeth is what she is (and as the late Stieg wrote her and probably loved her.) Honest characterization beats sentimental feel-good any day.

reply

Brilliantly put Socrates. From the books it is obvious that she has autism to one degree or another (Aspergers or the like) and it is this which makes her socially distant and prevents her from reacting and returning emotions the way most people would. I also think it is a distinct possibility that Larsson himself was on the autistic spectrum.....

reply

I would have done just as she did. She had such an intense mistrust of everyone it would take a long long time to just say thanks to anyone. Her whole life will be one of mistrust, she will never get close to anyone. SHe is independent, keeps strong, and goes it alone.

reply

some of the most heroic acts are done in secret and their heroes remain unsung.

reply


You have to remember that she is a sociopath. She feels emotions and affection like anyone else, but has no clue how to express them (except via sex). The bst she can manage is a polite thank-you. If you're looking for a parallel to her character, don't look at Nikita -- look at Rain Man. Although, unlike Rain Man, Salander has normal brain function and incredibly high intelligence, and she is clearly starved for affection, so once she gets a chance to catch her breath after the 27 years of abuse from the Zalachenko club is over, she will discover all the positive aspects of relating to people who care for her and don't want to kill her.

Also, she learned, at least in the books, that she can let a man break her heart without it killing her (although if it had been anybody except Blomqvist breaking her heart, that guy would have gotten a serious beatdown from the Wasp): and in fact she may be a bit terse with Blomqvist because she's still upset that he jumped into bed with both Berger and Figuerola.

reply

I read the definition of "sociopath" on Wikipedia. I don't think Lisabeth fits the profile.

reply

Ok, a sociopath or psychopath, commonly called antisocial personality disorder, is a condition where a person feels no remorse for their wrongs, think they are special, and can't empathize or feel for anyone else. Most famous examples are serial killers, such as Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer.

No, she is NOT a sociopath.

She likely has Asperger's a form of high functioning autism that mainly affects social behavior and communication. I would know, because I likely have this too. What this means is that she cannot understand intent very well, ie, body language, and is stuck on very literal words and semantics, not reading between the lines (evident in the court scene). She also has trouble making connections to friends and understanding how to be a friend. Most people with more severe autism would avoid people altogether. She does not, but she is not comfortable with excessive social situations. She also has a great mind for details, amazing memory, and odd hobbies: all symptoms of Asperger's.

One last thing to note: people with Asperger's often do not understand their own tone of voice and body language, and can come across as rude or ungrateful when that is not what they mean. They think they are presenting themselves differently and don't understand when they are not understood. So when she thanks Mikael, it comes across a little shallow, but we don't know what she thought she was presenting.

Empty what is full. Fill what is empty. Scratch what itches.

reply

Ok, a sociopath or psychopath, commonly called antisocial personality disorder, is a condition where a person feels no remorse for their wrongs, think they are special, and can't empathize or feel for anyone else. Most famous examples are serial killers, such as Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer.

No, she is NOT a sociopath.

She likely has Asperger's a form of high functioning autism that mainly affects social behavior and communication. I would know, because I likely have this too. What this means is that she cannot understand intent very well, ie, body language, and is stuck on very literal words and semantics, not reading between the lines (evident in the court scene). She also has trouble making connections to friends and understanding how to be a friend. Most people with more severe autism would avoid people altogether. She does not, but she is not comfortable with excessive social situations. She also has a great mind for details, amazing memory, and odd hobbies: all symptoms of Asperger's.

One last thing to note: people with Asperger's often do not understand their own tone of voice and body language, and can come across as rude or ungrateful when that is not what they mean. They think they are presenting themselves differently and don't understand when they are not understood. So when she thanks Mikael, it comes across a little shallow, but we don't know what she thought she was presenting.
That's definitely how I see it. It doesn't necessarily make her a more sympathetic character; just a more understandable one in the context of Asperger's Syndrome.

"Love isn't what you say or how you feel, it's what you DO". (The Last Kiss)

reply

SPOILER ALERT!!








Actually I've seen the script, and she does thank him -- despite the fact that she had to get out of the bathtub to answer the door. And she clearly intends to see him again and continue their friendship. Here ya go:


Am I disturbing you?
I was having a bath.
Oh, I see...
Have you seen the news?
No.
Ronald Niederman is dead. A gang
from Svavelsjö killed him.
Then the police came and arrested
the whole lot.
Thanks for everything.
Don't mention it.
Thank yourself.
See you again.
See you.
Definitely.


reply

Do you know if the scripts are available somewhere? I expect there are quite some changes in the movie, like the one you've mentioned.

reply

I think I just googled "girl who kicked the hornet's nest rip".

The script simplifies the book without altering it materially. The main change is the one that is constant through all three Swedish movies: unfortunately, they chose to ignore, entirely, Salander's emotional torment regarding Blomqvist. As a result, the last scene is an anti-climax rather than a reconciliation. Too much plot, not enough character. One area in which I hope the Hollywood versions DO go beyond what the Swedes did.

reply

Ok, thanks, I will try it.

I don't know what the script does with Lisabeth's emotional problems with Mikael, but the movie shows it quite well I think. The movie means Rapace. The main visible element of the torment is that she is avoiding him, and I think Rapace shows it clearly while at the same time playing with subtlety and restraint. It comes up each time when Mikael comes in the picture for her, and it happens only when she receives en email from him or herself sends him one.

reply

Which movie are you talking about, the second?

reply

Yes, actually I meant the second movie. Somehow I mixed the boards.

reply

I think that in the second movie, there was so much "restraint" that nobody had any idea that she was writhing under the competing torments of love and hate, as Larsson indicated.

reply

You might be right.

For me I saw the second movie after or during reading the second book, so my perception was probably tainted by the "behind scenes" knowledge. I did read her torment related to Mikael quite clearly. I don't know if you have the DVD, but if you do, see again paying attention to this aspect.

And, thinking about it, I've seen the TV cut of all 3 movies. And in the TV cut of the first movie you have Mikael's relationship with Erika in it's full glory, and there is also the famous scene from the end of the first book when Lisabeth goes to meet Mikael and sees him with Erika. The cinema cut doesn't have it. So this also makes a difference in how we understand Lisabeth's problems with Mikael in the second movie.

reply

[deleted]

I can't say about the TV version with English, but I suppose they might release it at some point. So far it was released in July in Scandinavia with Scandinavian languages (Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Finnish).

The visit in the prison is before Lisabeth sees Mikael with Erika. I think at that point she is just fighting with her own unwillingness to give in to the attachment.

reply

Perhaps with a sufficient outcry, we could get the TV versions released.

reply

there is also the famous scene from the end of the first book when Lisabeth goes to meet Mikael and sees him with Erika


At the end of the trilogy, I was wondering whether Lisabeth had let Mikael "go", as it were, because she had seen him and Erika together and could tell how much they liked each other? (Not that it had stopped Mikael from having sex with Lisabeth.)

reply

I take it that you have the movie version in mind as the ending is somewhat different in the book.

I could guess that the reason she let him go was that she was still feeling the pain. Lisabeth had had the desire to be special to Mikael to the degree that they would have exclusive "rights" to each other. Mikael was not on the same page. At the end of the third movie Lisabeth already knew that Mikael would not go for being a faithful partner to her, kind of accepted it, but the pain was probably still too much for her to make the step, to tell him "come in" and be friends. She clearly wanted to, but could not get herself to do it. If Mikael was more forthgoing at this point and if he kind of let himself in, she would gladly accept it, but she was unable to take the initiative and invite him.

reply

but she was unable to take the initiative and invite him


But she did initiate sex with him, which I think is harder for women to do than men. I don't see why she wouldn't initiate a friendship or more.

reply

Take the time factor into consideration. She initiated sex at the point she thought that's all she wants from him. But then came the heart ache, realisation that she is in love, desire to be special for him and to have him as her own. Then seeing him with another woman, resulting hurt and anger. At the end of the third movie she is still a bit of a teenager hurting from calf-love that had not been reciprocated quite the way she would want to. Thus on one hand desire to be close to him, on the other hand remnants of feeling offended and perhaps some shyness?

That's how I would see it.

reply

re ."Salander has normal brain function and incredibly high intelligence, and she is clearly starved for affection, so once she gets a chance to catch her breath after the 27 years of abuse from the Zalachenko club is over, she will discover all the positive aspects of relating to people who care for her and don't want to kill her. "

and i suppose everything will be happy everafter ! lol.


I beleive there is hope to mend a damaged psyche but believing that after 27 years of abuse a bit of genuine affection and understanding will miraculously wash all the damage away then you need to step into the real world and look at real people who have post traumatic stress disorder. Maybe read about life-stage development theory too.

recovery is not an easy thing.

reply


Straw-Man argument!

I didn't say recovery was an easy thing. But it is certainly possible, particularly for a capable person with an aptitude for problem-solving, which Lisbeth is.

Genuine affection and understanding would go a long way all by itself, when you haven't had any for a long time. And she would get plenty -- Blomqvist, the Millenium crowd, Armansky, her old guardian, Mimmi, her punk band, Plague (although sometimes she is rude to her friends, which is just a matter of learning).... She would just need to figure out how to process affection and respond to it.

Also, it is debatable how much recovery she really needs. Already she is a functioning, independent, intelligent adult -- arguably she is more capable than you or me. She has developed friendships and romances, she has evinced empathy, she has a wide range of coping mechanisms, and having more money than God doesn't hurt, either.

Also, there is no certainty that she has PTSD. She doesn't internalize trauma -- she gets revenge. Whatever residual agita she might have had, a lot of it went down the drain when Zalachenko, Bjurman and Teleborian met their messy ends, and when people started listening to what she was saying.

The two life-stage development issues that would stick out would be her very spotty education, and her spotty social skills -- both of which she could fix lickety-split (as it happens, I have, in fact, worked with abuse victims, so I know whereof I speak).

If she were to seek professional therapy with a real psychiatrist, that first session would probably be a hoot to listen to.

reply

@darrenwheeler.....if you cannot look at what Lisbeth has gone through in her life, and feel anything but respect and sympathy, then I wonder if you have any humanity whatsoever. My guess is you're intimidated by smart, strong willed women willing to survive at any price.

@hellodollyllama Lisbeth is not a sociopath. But I agree, with you in one aspect, we should get the Sweedish tv versions on DVD.

"Religion is the opiate of the people" - Karl Marx

reply

They should totally make TV series out of it... ALA Dexter.

The Dexter books are awesome, but apart from the first season (which follows the first book very closely) the series and books go their seperate ways whilst still tackling much the same territory.

I love the books. And I love the series.

I could see this being adapted as full fledged series. But only on one of the less girly cable networks. Like Starz, or Showtime or HBO or something. Seems like nudity and extreme violence is no real problem for any of them.

Flynn 24

reply