Smiley's mint. - Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy (2012) Discussion

[–] GorchBrother 7 years ago

It's another of those things that people who pretend to like the movie pretend to understand even though it cuts out all the relevant chapters that explain the meaning of the mint in the book. Like where they were made, where they went to school. What they mint did during the war. In the movie you just get the impression that Smiley is merely sucking on a mint.

The mint just suddenly appears. Did he have it all the time? (Then why?) Or did he buy it specifically to hunt down the mole? Does Smiley know if it's the same mint that Karla was sucking when interrogating? How could he know? The film doesn't say. Leaving this stuff on the page and not including it in the film totally undermines the whole point of the story.

How can anyone legitimately accept that Haydon was the mole when the mint only appears for a few seconds?

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

reply

[–] nystulc 7 years ago

It's another of those things that people who pretend to like the movie pretend to understand even though it cuts out all the relevant chapters that explain the meaning of the mint in the book. Like where they were made, where they went to school. What they mint did during the war. In the movie you just get the impression that Smiley is merely sucking on a mint.

The mint just suddenly appears. Did he have it all the time? (Then why?) Or did he buy it specifically to hunt down the mole? Does Smiley know if it's the same mint that Karla was sucking when interrogating? How could he know? The film doesn't say. Leaving this stuff on the page and not including it in the film totally undermines the whole point of the story.

How can anyone legitimately accept that Haydon was the mole when the mint only appears for a few seconds?

That's completely wrong, GorchBrother. In fact, the mint plays a similar role to the egg in Angel Heart, or the candy in Drag Me to Hell. The mint represents Haydon's soul, which Smiley, symbolically in the role of Satan, is consuming.

Everybody knows that! Sheesh!

reply

[–] GorchBrother 7 years ago

When did the movie tell us all that?

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

reply

[–] nystulc 7 years ago

It's a joke, GorthBrother. A joke.

reply

[–] GorchBrother 7 years ago

At what point in your post does it tell is that "it's a joke" or that you're a joker?

Maybe some people see at your posts just staring back at them from the screen, which constitutes good cinema for them, and pretend to understand what's going on, e.g. humour.

But without the motivations and the full background to the post being included in it, anyone doing so is merely admiring the emperor's new clothes.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

reply

[–] nystulc 7 years ago

At what point in your post does it tell is that "it's a joke" or that you're a joker?

I could ask you the same question. Or was your initial post in this thread supposed to be serious?

If you could not tell from the post itself, then perhaps you could have figured it out from my next post, where I say "In all seriousness ..." and then give a serious answer.

Or how about my post after that, where I tell you straight out that "It's a joke".

What do you want from me? I was joking. Do you not believe me?

It's product placement. More charitably, it's product placement doubling as period detail.

reply

[–] GorchBrother 7 years ago

It used to be a joke. Until you felt the need tell straight out that, "It's a joke".

I tried to ignore that (big clue right there) and keep plowing on with the misplaced incredulity in case you might pick up the spirit of the convo again.

But if your patter has dried up to the point of acknowledging the implicit joke directly and then attempting to ring humour out of that  then I'm not wasting any more of my time with it.

Shame. I had almost warmed to you there.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

reply

[–] nystulc 7 years ago

It used to be a joke. Until you felt the need tell straight out that, "It's a joke".

Yeah, well. It could have been fun to troll you, for a while, and not tell you I was joking. But what can I do? You're never happy, in any event.

reply

[–] GorchBrother 7 years ago

But what can I do?

To quote Ricky Tarr. You can "Fück off."

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

reply

[–] nystulc 7 years ago

In all seriousness, sometimes a mint is just a mint.

Perhaps it's a stab at period detail, since supposedly it is a VINTAGE packet of Trebor mints. Or, less charitably, maybe it's just product placement.

No mint is mentioned in the pre-shooting script that is available online.

reply

[–] hobartz 7 years ago

Just another example of Smiley's meticulous forethought and planning. A mint would ensure that he wouldn't suddenly get a bad case of dry-throat as part of the "fight-or-flight" response to a stressful situation. An untimely cough from Smiley would send the mole scurrying away in utmost haste, thereby blowing the otherwise carefully-laid trap.

reply

[–] simon23 7 years ago

Oldman in the DVD commentary says the mints were a prop in his briefcase throughout the production and on set that day he suggested to Alfredson they be used in the scene. He agreed - interested in the noise it would make against his teeth, Gary stressed the resemblance to a "confessional wafer" in the way he placed it in his mouth.

The amped up sounds do add to the tension of the wait and you could argue for the "host" as a symbolic image of renewal/salvation ... but for me the use of the mints magnify two signature features of Smiley:

1. The humdrum anti-glam anti-Bond feet-on-the-ground life of this spymaster even at potentially exhilarating moments. In conjunction, the gun removed not from a holster, but a briefcase and then again at a further remove from him in a zip lock sandwich bag.

2. The almost eerie level of composure and lack of nerves peeling off and eating a sweet at the culmination of a trap being sprung. Calmly returning them to his pocket with a brief rotation of the packet - only the tiniest trace of fidget?

reply

[–] nystulc 7 years ago

Oldman in the DVD commentary says the mints were a prop in his briefcase throughout the production and on set that day he suggested to Alfredson they be used in the scene.

The word "prop" should be read as an admission that this packet of mints was not just something Oldman happened to have on hand. It was given him, by the director, with the understanding that it would be visible at some point during the film.

The mints, in turn, were no doubt provided to the film by the Trebor Mint company with the same understanding.

It's called "product placement". It's a type of advertising.

He agreed - interested in the noise it would make against his teeth, Gary stressed the resemblance to a "confessional wafer" in the way he placed it in his mouth.

The idea I got from these remarks is that Smiley is trying to keep quiet, and that is why, at the directors suggestion, he places the mint carefully on his tongue (to avoid any noise of the mint against his teeth).

The comparison to a "confessional wafer" is then a bit of free association by Oldman.

If you want to give the association further significance, then: such extraordinary reverence does help emphasize that these are no ordinary mints. These are TREBOR mints.

The amped up sounds do add to the tension of the wait and you could argue for the "host" as a symbolic image of renewal/salvation ... but for me the use of the mints magnify two signature features of Smiley:

1. The humdrum anti-glam anti-Bond feet-on-the-ground life of this spymaster even at potentially exhilarating moments.

Well ... either that or they just wanted to show us some of those excellent TREBOR mints.

In conjunction, the gun removed not from a holster, but a briefcase and then again at a further remove from him in a zip lock sandwich bag.

Zip-lock bags are sometimes used for gun storage. I think some are specially designed for that purpose. My understanding is that their primary purpose has less to do with protecting the gun, than with protecting other items from the oil on the gun.

In the book he draws it from the wallet pocket of his jacket, "where it had already ruined the excellent silk lining". I guess he could have avoided that by using a ziplock. The disadvantage, of course, is that the gun is not readily available for use ... which is of course why you don't see cops running around with their guns in ziplock bags.

2. The almost eerie level of composure and lack of nerves peeling off and eating a sweet at the culmination of a trap being sprung. Calmly returning them to his pocket with a brief rotation of the packet - only the tiniest trace of fidget?

Either that, or the exaggerated caution is suggestive of nervousness.

One reason for the brief rotation is to help insure that the brand name "TREBOR" is visible at least part of the time. I think it also helps remove the mint.

reply