It's Doubtful Anyone Complaining Watched the Series - Anne Boleyn (2021) Discussion

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

I hope you'll also support my movement to have Shaka Zulu played by Weird Al Yankovic. Who cares about historical accuracy right

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

White supremacists certainly don't care about historical accuracy!

I repeat:

At no point do critics complain about the black people who were missing from The Tudors like John Blanke and Catalina de Cardones.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Considering Catalina was a lady in waiting to Catherine and not Anne why would she be in it? John was also a musician for Catherine not Anne. So YOU don't care about history just woke diversity

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

I wrote:
"At no point do critics complain about the black people who were missing from The Tudors like John Blanke and Catalina de Cardones."

You're as illiterate as you are racist! All of Queen Catherine's ladies were white in The Tudors as were the musicians and soldiers. There were black people living and working in England and especially Spain during King Henry VIII's reign.

John was the musician for both Henry VII and VIII.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Neither of those characters were portrayed in the Tudors cause there was more important things happening than if the old Queen's court was diversified enough for your whiny bitch ass

"John Blanke (also rendered Blancke or Blak) (fl. 1501–1511) was a black musician in London in the early 16th century.

Extract from the Westminster Tournament Roll almost certainly showing John Blanke, the only figure wearing an orange turban latticed with yellow.
He probably came to England as one of the African attendants of Catherine of Aragon in 1501"

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Obviously, you didn't see The Tudors nor Anne Boleyn. Stick with your superhero movies and anime.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Excuse you? I happen to major in history with an emphasis on English history. I could literally type in my sleep facts from that era while you cry about "why isn't there enough black people"

So stfu, gfys and gtfo

You brainless meat puppet

Btw nice job not disputing my facts and just ad homing your way to relevance

Idiot

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Nevertheless, you didn't watch either show.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Despite some inaccuracies I loved the Tudors

You're the one complaining about john Blake and Catalina like they were important figures in Tudor England and not court artist

That's as far they go

Meanwhile Henry VIII broke from Rome, had a reformation, maneuvered alliances with Francis and Charles while playing them against each other, fought off the Scots etc

But yeah your black trumpet player was more important than that

You're a woketard go learn history and cry more about how only white people made it

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

You obviously didn't watch The Tudors since you are completely unfamiliar with the show.

Stick to your Avengers movies.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Name one thing I said that was wrong? You can't

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Wikipedia quotes have nothing to do with the Tudor series. If you watched the show, then you'd know why.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Like I thought you can't

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

You didn't watch The Tudors.

Watch yhe first two episodes and the racism will be clear.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Sure KKKeelai

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

You're trolling.

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[–] Pete314 (2450) 3 years ago

In case of doubt you share this planet with 7 billion trolls. Must be a lonely life...

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Not true. Most people are rather nice.

The few trolls on moviechat are extremely active. I assume they have miserable lives.

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[–] Stratego (29173) 3 years ago

At no point were those two people portrayed by white actors, so the comparison lacks logic (as expected).

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Logic is they as Moor ladies and musicians to the Spanish Queen be represented as they were in history as black

Would you complain if they were played by whites?

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[–] Stratego (29173) 3 years ago

If historically black characters were played by white actors I would complain. But these people weren't even characters on The Tudors, so the OP's comparison with Anne Boleyn on this show lacks logic.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

They were represented by white actors in The Tudors. Did you watch the show?

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[–] Stratego (29173) 3 years ago

John Blanke and Catalina de Cardones were not characters on the tv series The Tudors.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

This is correct

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[–] Kowalski (57180) 3 years ago

ON THIS WE AGREE.

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[–] TearofLys (2398) 3 years ago

I am an avid consumer of (true, not made up) world history and you couldn't pay me to watch this series.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

That makes you a liar if you ever watched a Western which omits the 1/3 black and Mexican cowboys!

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[–] TearofLys (2398) 3 years ago

How is that in any way related. I have only read a few of your posts, but I have noticed that logical flow isn't your strong suit.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

You're fine with systemic whitewashing of history by Hollywood, but cry about one black actress in a role.

"I am an avid consumer of (true, not made up) world history"

All white Westerns are made-up history which you likely watched with no complaints. I'm calling out your blatant hypocrisy.

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[–] TearofLys (2398) 3 years ago

If you are making the baseless claim that I watch old-timey westerns, I am assuming you are as old as my gramps. I don't, but that is beside the point. Westerns are for the most part, pure fiction, not based on real people or events. Anne Boleyn was a real person and she didn't hail from sub-Saharan Africa. In real life, she was a pasty white British aristocrat.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

"Westerns are for the most part, pure fiction,"
Yes, the part in which all cowboys are portrayed as white.

"I am an avid consumer of (true, not made up) world history"
LOL!

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[–] whynotwriteme (7114) 3 years ago

It's Doubtful Anyone Complaining Watched the Series

It's doubtful almost anyone at all watched the series, complaining or not. I saw the ratings.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Racists just want the chance to spew their racism once again. No surprise!

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[–] whynotwriteme (7114) 3 years ago

Let me guess... anyone who didn't watch Anne Boelyn is A RACIST!

Maybe they should have held enforced mass-viewings in soccer stadiums. Maybe then it wouldn't have been beaten in the ratings by old reruns of "Coronation Street".

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Anyone who is UPSET about a black actress playing an acting role is a racist.

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[–] whynotwriteme (7114) 3 years ago

How do you feel about Chuck Connors as Chief Geronimo or Alec Guinness as Sheik Faisal?

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

I'll answer your question with a question because I want you to think.

Name 4-5 American TV shows starring actors who are Native-American or Arab. Any year.

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[–] whynotwriteme (7114) 3 years ago

Born to the Wind - many actors & actresses
The Lone Ranger - Jay Silverheels
Emergency - Randolph Mantooth
The Son - Zahn Mclarnon
Grey's Anatomy - Wes Studi
The Rockford Files - James Garner

As far as Arab actors I don't want to look up series by series, but there are many and many prominent ones.

Tony Shalhoub, Lebanese,[28] three-time Emmy Award-winning television actor on Monk
Danny Thomas, Lebanese,[29] Emmy Award-winning actor, founder of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital; father of Marlo Thomas
Marlo Thomas, Lebanese, Golden Globe and Emmy Award-winning actress
Rami Malek, Egyptian, Emmy Award and Academy Award - winning actor
Demián Bichir, Mexico-born Lebanese, Academy Award-nominated actor
Vic Tayback, Syrian, two-time Golden Globe-winning actor
Kristy McNichol, Lebanese, two-time Emmy Award-winning actress[30]
Tige Andrews, Syrian, Emmy-nominated actor
Michael Ansara, Lebanon-born, actor
Sofia Boutella, Algiers-born Algerian, actress and Hip-hop dancer
George Nader, Lebanese, American film and television actor.
Jenna Dewan, Lebanese,[31] film/TV actress (Step Up)
Shannon Elizabeth, Syrian-Lebanese,[32] film actress (American Pie, Scary Movie)
Khrystyne Haje, Lebanese, actress on Head of the Class
Teri Hatcher, Syrian, actress
Salma Hayek, Mexico-born Lebanese, Mexican actress
Rowan Blanchard, Syrian, actress
Anissa Jones,Lebanese, actress, Family Affair
Jamie Farr, Lebanese,[33] character actor
Catherine Keener, Lebanese, actress
Wendie Malick, Egyptian, actress
Alanna Masterson, half Lebanese, actress,
Wentworth Miller, UK-born Lebanese-Syrian,[34] actor on Prison Break
Najee Mondalek, Lebanon-born, actor/playwright
Kathy Najimy, Lebanese,[35] actress
Gregory Jbara, Lebanese, television and film actor
Alia Shawkat, half-Iraqi, actress on Arrested Development
James Stacy, part-Lebanese, actor
Paola Turbay, part-Lebanese, actress
Vince Vaughn, part-Lebanese, actor
Amy Yasbeck, part-Lebanese, actress
Sammy Sheik, Alexandria-born Egyptian, actor
Omar Metwally, half-Egyptian, actor
Waleed Zuaiter, Palestinian, actor
Mo Gallini, half-Lebanese, actor
Michael Nouri, half-Iraqi, actor
Haaz Sleiman, Beirut-born Lebanese, television and film actor
Emeraude Toubia, Canada-born part-Lebanese, actress
Edy Ganem, half-Lebanese, actress
Nadia Dajani, half-Palestinian, actress
Rose Abdoo, half-Lebanese, comedian, actress
John Kassir, American actor, voice actor and comedian.
Ramy Youssef, Egyptian, writer and star of Ramy

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Nope. You named one show which lasted maybe a month. Born to the Wind is good because it STARS a Native-American.

None of the other shows are starring roles. They are minor roles or sidekicks to white main characters. Garner and Mantooth had careers because they had mainly white ancestry and could pass as 100% white. I didn't ask for partial ancestry or you could name Elizabeth Warren as a Native-American. Wenthworth is one zillionth Lebanese, therefore irrelevant - he's actually black, but that's a different topic.

The actors' list is irrelevant since you're only naming unemployed actors which makes my point. No shows = few acting opportunities.

I'm going to give you one show, Make Room for Daddy starring Danny Thomas even though he was passing for white with the WASPy name change. Btw, there are brown and black-skinned Arabs and Native-Americans. Your list is almost exclusively of actors who can pass as 100% white and have - which also makes my point. they're hired if they can pass for white or in a minor role.

That's two shows.

In answer to your question, I don't care if actors play different roles as long as there is equal opportunity for all. Your lack of named series with starring roles indicates there is NOT equal opportunity. There needs to be much more diversity in hiring.

I really want to see a family show starring Native-Americans. A few years ago, they finally made family shows starring Asian-Americans which was also on my wish list.

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[–] Stratego (29173) 3 years ago

Well done, you totally pwned the OP. (Loved the still very succesful Tony Shalhoub starring as the lead and title character on Monk, btw).

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

Rekt! Nice job

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[–] asom (6500) 3 years ago

Racists like those that replace a historical character with a different race?

Sure.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Jesus wasn't a WASP since Mizrahi Jews are POC. And the ancient Egyptians were Afro-Asiatic with brown skin. 1/3 of the cowboys were black and Mexican but Westerns are all white before the 70s and overwhelmingly white afterwards.

Whites WHITEWASH TV shows and movies ALL THE TIME.

Racists like you never complain about that! I watched the all white casts of The Tudors in which black historical figures were conveniently missing to perpetuate a racist lie of a lily white Europe.

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[–] asom (6500) 3 years ago

Jesus was adopted by the cultures that are praying to him, you will see black jesus in africa.

Do a search for "black jesus" on google and then show me how many are complaining about a black Jesus ... Jesus is the idea, it doesn't matter what race he is.

Missing is one thing (Maybe those missing characters were not relevant to the story), race swapping is another thing.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Jesus was born in Palestine/Judea which is NOT in Europe. Mizrahi Jews aren't white.

I'm not referring to "religious" Jesus who looked nothing like the WASPY European paintings.

I'm referring to "historical" Jesus who like Mizrahi Jews of that time period and location would have dark eyes, dark curly hair worn short and an olive complexion.

You're getting confused with Azhkenazi Jews who didn't exist at that time.

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[–] asom (6500) 3 years ago

I guess you didn't understand a word I was saying. That's ok.

I never said Jesus was historically white.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

"doesn't matter what race he is."

Obviously, it does or Jesus would not have been depicted as a blond haired, blue-eyed WASP.

"Missing is one thing (Maybe those missing characters were not relevant to the story), race swapping is another thing."

I watched The Tudors twice. Queen Catherine's ladies were repeatedly shown. They should not have been all white. Ditto, the many scenes with musicians, soldiers and Spaniards.

It's similar to the TV series Friends which depicts a lily white New York City. Pure whitewash of reality.

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[–] asom (6500) 3 years ago

"Obviously, it does or Jesus would not have been depicted as a blond haired, blue-eyed WASP."

Obviously he is not always depicted like that. He is depicted as black in other locations, or latino in others. And no one has a problem with that.

He is usually depicted in the image of the local population.

Here's an image from my country, does he look blonde/blue eyed to you?? He looks closer to middle east, i would say.

https://magazinmmb.ro/sites/default/files/styles/img-produs/public/produs/2017/06/icoana_mantuitorul_.jpg?itok=EDNXvjq8

amother one:

http://www.bisericasfantulantonie.ro/images/bisericasfantulantonie/nodes/3584/thumb/1140x501_99338_hristos_pantocrator.jpg

As I was saying there are plenty of African christian cultures that paint Jesus as black.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-06-01-ls-64567-story.html

"It has long been tradition in churches throughout the world for images of Jesus to mirror the faces of the faithful.

Jesus is often depicted in Latin America as Latino, in Asia as Asian, and in Africa as black. U.S. churches of the African Methodist Episcopal denomination have accepted black-Christ images for 100 years, since Bishop Henry McNeal Turner first uttered the words “God is a Negro.”

It's not whitewashing or asianwashing or latinowashing. It's just local representation.

But you wouldn't know that because you're a racist ;)

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

You linked to two depictions of a white Jesus. Majority of black, Asian and Hispanic churches and homes have a white Jesus. An exception isn't relevant.

You are denying the influence of white supremacy.

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[–] asom (6500) 3 years ago

Nope, not blonde white how you implied that the european Jesus always is, they could easily pass as POC in those representations, with the darker skin.

You're a racist my friend.

When the Europe chose the image of Jesus in the 10th century there was no white supremacy to enforce that, they just chose someone close to them, an image that they can relate to. And they had, just as now, no idea how Jesus would have looked. We only assume based on location but the truth is: 1. We don't know. 2. Jesus historically might not even be a real person.

Do you think the Vikings when they switched from their Norse gods to Jesus knew how Jesus was supposed to look? And they painted him in their image out of "white supremacy"? You cannot be THAT stupid ...

Do you think that Da Vinci when he painted The Last Supper he painted them as whites due to him being a "white supremacist"? Or the ones that painted a white(ish) Jesus in the 6th century AD - and what's more interesting is that actually is in Egypt (Mount Sinai)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_Pantocrator_(Sinai)

Stop being ignorant. And stupid. If you can ...

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

"not blonde white how you implied that the european Jesus always is"

Nope. You are illiterate. Reread my posts. S-l-o-w-l-y.

Of course, people know what Jews look like from that era! You act like Europeans never visited the area. DaVinci is going to paint whatever his employers commissioned. There was anti-Semitism in Europe so do the math.

Ancient Egyptians were Afro-Asiatic and depicted themselves with brown skin, but that didn't stop Hollywood from hiring white actors:

‘Gods of Egypt’ director, Lionsgate apologize for predominantly white cast
https://www.cnn.com/2015/11/28/entertainment/gods-of-egypt-cast-apology-feat/index.html

Only after a strong backlash, did he apologize.

"Exodus: Gods and Kings,” the Biblical epic starring Christian Bale as Moses and Australian actor Joel Edgerton as Egyptian King Ramses."

Why don't you criticize that casting!!

Explained why black and Mexican are missing from Hollywood westerns when they made up 1/3 of cowboys.

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[–] asom (6500) 3 years ago

Forgot that easy what you said???

Let me remind you: "Obviously, it does or Jesus would not have been depicted as a blond haired, blue-eyed WASP". Busted. Jesus was depicted for most part of history and Europe as dark haired and having dark eyes, plus a darker skin.

Studies about the ethnicity and skin color of jews places them similar to the other ME semitic tribes and pretty close to the other mediteranean populations, like the greeks.

But that's irrelevant, the fact is: Jesus was painted as it was to be closer to the image of the people that were praying to him, not out of some "white supremacist" movement, as you would think.

About ramses II
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-mummy-of-King-Ramses-2-said-to-be-that-of-a-Caucasian-when-it-is-that-of-a-black-African#:~:text=He's%20Egyptian%20(and%20he's%20from,modern%20labels%20to%20ancient%20people.

And that applies to the jews as well.

Outside of USA the ME populations are considered "white" as well btw - Caucasian.

But, as an idea: I wouldn't mind if someone would make a movie about a black Jesus. As I said Jesus is just a simbol, an idea. Same for Moses, wouldn't care if he was depicted as white, black, or blue.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

You really are illiterate:

"not blonde white how you implied that the european Jesus always is

I never said Jesus was ALWAYS depicted as blond with blue eyes. I said he should never be depicted that way. Learn to read!

The majority of Middle-Eastern people don't consider themselves white. That's a part of white supremacist nonsense.

I'm Black and Egyptian, Not White:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XUPZokMb6A
I suggest you listen to the whole interview in which he describes ancient Egyptians as black and brown aka: Afro-Asiatic. The Atlantic slave trade needed to be justified which was done through white supremacy and racism by whitewashing history.

"Racists like those that replace a historical character with a different race?'

Obviously, you do care about the race as per your comment! You're a hypocrite and liar.

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[–] asom (6500) 3 years ago

Rofl.

"Obviously, it does or Jesus would not have been depicted as a blond haired, blue-eyed WASP" - this has an absolute value. doesn't leave space for alternatives. The majority of the icons paint a dark haired, dark eyes and sometime darker skin. That's a fact.

You're funny and you don't even know what you said.

Useless.

Btw, I said "historical", to me neither Jesus neither Moses are historical ... they are fictional characters that could be any race, color, etc.

Now if you think that splitting the Red Sea is a historical event it's your problem, not mine.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Moses is fictional. Ditto Red Sea.

I don't see why a rabble rouser named Yeshua stirring up a bit of trouble while preaching wouldn't be real. New sects and cults were common during that time. Romans crucified thousands of Jews so why not him? He was likely charismatic and had a following. After his death, some of his followers embellished a lot creating and popularizing a new offshoot of Judaism.

"they are fictional characters that could be any race, color, etc. "

Another lie. Whites become upset when there is a black Santa in the store.

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[–] sslssg (27397) 3 years ago

I haven't watched the series yet, so I don't know how good it is. I think that my complaint with it would be that there is a double standard. Not just with whitewashing. I mean we know that whitewashing was a problem for a really long time. My issue is that there has been a push back against able bodied actors playing disabled roles, or straight actors playing gay or trans when there are gay or trans actors who could be playing those roles. I saw that even Lou Diamond Phillips apologized for playing Native roles when he is Filipino, which is still a minority in Hollywood.

Why is it okay that Turner-Smith can play a role of an actual historical person, but ScarJo can't play a fictional character? I mean they are both roles right? I get that white people have been a position of privilege for a very long time, and I don't think that they are being attacked currently either. But....this is a double standard. There would be absolute outrage is Tom Cruise played Nelson Mandela.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

"I mean we know that whitewashing was a problem for a really long time."

No! Still IS a problem.

"There would be absolute outrage is Tom Cruise played Nelson Mandela. "

You're acting as if black historical figures haven't already been whitewashed. Hollywood's whitewashing and systemic racism in hiring are NORMAL behavior.

I answered your question in previous posts so I'm just going to copy and paste an excerpt. You can also read the previous posts for a more complete response.

"Jesus wasn't a WASP since Mizrahi Jews are POC. And the ancient Egyptians were Afro-Asiatic with brown skin. 1/3 of the cowboys were black and Mexican but Westerns are all white before the 70s and overwhelmingly white afterwards."

Whitewashing perpetuates the white supremacist myth that blacks have no history outside of slavery. The majority of people are not taught history in school, therefore they buy the lie which Hollywood perpetuates.

BTW, another thing that Hollywood does is to make a white person the focus of a film about a black person. For instance, Miss Jane Pittman was about the white journalist's investigation, Cry Freedom (Steve Biko) was about a white journalist, and The Help was about a white writer. See the pattern?

Racist whites look for any excuse to complain about blacks in movies and TV shows. I've read numerous complaints about Lost In Space's Judy, The Little Mermaid and Bridgerton which are fiction.

Ann Boleyn never mentions race and it's inconsequential. Sets, extras and costumes are very minimalist in design so it feels more like a theatrical production than a TV series. The show takes many artistic licenses like feminist Boleyn making political decisions instead of Henry in a few scenes. No complaints about that!

Personally speaking, I'd like to see a series made about Queen Amanirenas. You may want to look her up if you never heard of her.

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[–] sslssg (27397) 3 years ago

First of all, I'm not speaking of history. I know there has been a problem in the past with white washing and I acknowledged that. I am not denying white privilege or systematic racism in hollywood or western society period. It's there.

I also haven't talked about westerns or Jesus for that matter. I know there were black cowboys. There were also Black Fur Traders. Most famously The Bonga Family, and Joseph Lewis. I know Cry Freedom and The Help are told from the white stand point. The Power of One movie also suffers from the white saviour problem. The movie was nothing like the book, and did make it all about PK teaching English to the poor blacks.

I have no issues with fictional characters being played by anyone of any race. Especially a mermaid as who says mermaids wouldn't be green or grey or any colour of fish if they really existed.

The point that I am getting at is that you have said that Ann Boleyn never mentions race and it's inconsequential. and I am asking if it is inconsequential if Tom Cruise played Mandela or if that would be wrong. When it comes to actual people who existed, should race matter? I had issues with the recent TV show Anne including present day issues, so I might actually have an issues with Boleyn making decisions. Now, if the show is touted as a fictional story and not historical I wouldn't have an issue at all. I don't even know if I have an issue with the cast as I haven't seen it. But I am still wanting to know why race doesn't matter if it's a non white person playing a historical white person, but not the other way around like it was done in the past. I mean we don't look at some of the past whitewashing and talk about how artistic it was. We look at it and say, "wow, that was really racist and not cool"

I agree with you on seeing a series on Queen Amanirenas. I would like to see a series about the Bonga family. I'd like to see history shows of other peoples than white Europeans played by those people.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

First, fix white racism and whitewashing in the film industry which are currently systemic. Do you have ANY posts complaining about those problems?

Until the above conditions are met, your complaint about one incident is silly. Stop expecting black people to do something that whites have never lived up to.

"I'd like to see history shows of other peoples than white Europeans played by those people."

What have you done to make the film industry know? Picking on a single black actress with limited roles isn't helpful.

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[–] sslssg (27397) 3 years ago

I have read your posts and you still haven't answered my question if it's okay today for a white person to play a real person of a different race? You have not answered that when a movie depicts actual people, should race matter? Would it be okay for a black person to play Genghis Khan? How about an Asian person playing Obama? I want to know what you think.

My opinion is that if a character is fictional, I don't care who plays them. I am unsure on how I feel about real people. If for some reason there was a story about me (white female), could a black trans man play me? It is just a role. This is where my question is.

Stop expecting black people to do something that whites have never lived up to. I have no idea what you are referring to with this.

Also you may be confusing me for someone else, but I have never picked on Turner-Smith. I have defended her on her page. I have not bashed the show. I haven't seen the show. What I did do was read this thread and I wanted your opinion on my question. I agree with a lot of what you are saying and I'm not your enemy here.

You are asking what I have done. Well, other than supporting projects that I like that I think are inclusive, and not just a race or gender swap, I don't know what else I can do. You are asking if I've complained about whitewashing and I generally have not as I don't watch a lot of recent shows where that has been an issue.

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[–] sslssg (27397) 3 years ago

I spend more of my time in the theatre when Covid isn't an issue, and even locally we are working to make the theatre more inclusive. A lot of the boards are still full of white men, and we are battling a lot of sexual harassment as well as racism, but it's getting better. When I say I want to see stories that reflect other histories, I mean it. One of the plays that did extremely well at our theatre festival in 2019 was written by a gay muslim man, and it was about two women falling in love under the tumult of the Lebanese Civil war and two men meeting for the first time in the hidden recesses of the queer Beiruti nightlife.

I want to see stories that are written by the people who they represent. The only way I know how to make that happen is just to support them with my dollars. If you have any other suggestions I'm open to them.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

"Would it be okay for a black person to play Genghis Khan?
A white person already played him! John Wayne.

"How about an Asian person playing Obama?"
A Korean/white/Latino person already played him! Fred Armisen

Notice how only racist whites are complaining about a black actress.

"I have never picked on Turner-Smith."

You're picking on her now by trying to prevent her from getting acting roles based on race. That's racism.

Meanwhile, it was perfectly fine for Khan and Obama to be played by other races and not a peep out of anyone. No complaints when whites put on black face to play Othello or taped up their eyes to play Chinese characters in film while at the same time discriminating against POC throughout the film industry.

" I don't know what else I can do."
Don't join the racist choir on moviechat.

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[–] sslssg (27397) 3 years ago

Yeah, and it certainly wasn't cool when John Wayne did it. I was also unaware that Fred Armisen played Obama and I can't say that I find that cool either. No where, and I mean no where have I said that I think that it's acceptable for white people to play real people of a different race. I think that what has been done in the past is pretty gross. Because of that, I am asking if it makes me a hypocrite if I'm now okay with a black woman playing a white queen? I'm asking how it's different? You have not answered this question. I have also asked if it's historical or more of a fictional story.

Okay. Please stop and read what I am saying. I'm not picking on Jodie Turner-Smith. I have asked you what you think. You have not answered that question at all. You have now called me a racist. I have said that I don't have a complaint with her playing Boleyn, I have a problem with the double standard. I have said that I agree with you on a lot of points. You seem to think that me asking your opinion about something means that I have a problem with that something.

Do you know anything about the Broadway show Six? It's about the wives of Henry VIII. They are all played by different races. It's a modern retelling of the stories, and they are told in the form of a pop concert. I love that musical. I loved the casting. The cast which I saw had Catherine of Aragon, Anna of Cleves, and Catherine Parr were all black. I didn't have any issue with any of that. It also wasn't presented as anything other than a reimagining. You said they took liberties with some parts, but from what I understand the show is historically correct. This is where I have the questions. I don't even really have an opinion. I have questions. Questions that you have chosen to ignore.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

"I have a problem with the double standard."

There is no double standard because there is no equality. Blacks and whites don't share equality in the film industry or in society, therefore your question is a false equivalence.

Racism and white supremacy exist. You're acting as if it doesn't.

Compare the following:

1. Discrimination in hiring:

A white actor has many more roles offered to him than a POC does. One of the main complaints which Asians and Native-Americans had were that they were denied most roles and the very few for them were being given to whites. Example: David Carradine in Kung Fu. Bruce Lee created that role for himself, but ABC refused to hire a Chinese person for a Chinese role!

2. Discrimination in types of roles:

POC are usually offered stereotyped roles. For instance, a Native-American won't get roles playing just a high school teacher, cashier or nurse.

3. Malice intent:

Whitewashing has the purpose of reinforcing white supremacy. For instance, ancient Egyptians were not white, but Afro-Asiatic. But, hiring only white actors reinforces the lie that blacks have accomplished nothing and have no history. Everyone knows the real Anne Boleyn was white, but few whites know that Queen Nefertiti was black because only white actresses have played her.

Can you see how there is no equivalence. Turner is just playing an acting role. Baxter is playing an acting role while perpetuating a white supremacist lie that blacks have no history nor contributed anything.

4. Roles not equivalent:
Both Nelson Mandela and Obama had to overcome white racism, therefore race is an important part of what made them famous.

Anne Boleyn's race doesn't play an important role in what made her famous. Her gender is much more important.

I've answered your question, just not in the specific way you want since I can't pretend there is equality.

I'm not sure how I can make it clearer.

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[–] sslssg (27397) 3 years ago

Where have I acted like racism doesn't exist?

I can't do anything with what has happened in the past. I can do something about what is happening now and in the future.

I consider whitewashing gross and offensive, I always have. I agree with you on white actors having privilege and getting roles that they shouldn't. I think I'm trying to express that I would much rather see a tv show about queen Nefertiti than another show about Anne Boleyn that's diverse.
Baxter is playing an acting role while perpetuating a white supremacist lie that blacks have no history nor contributed anything. I don't know who Baxter is or what you are referring to. I would rather Hollywood or British film explore those stories. That would mean a lot more to dispelling racism and equality than racially swapping european historical figures. Like you mentioned the lie that blacks have no history. I want to see those stories. I want to see what has been contributed.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

"That would mean a lot more to dispelling racism and equality "

What makes you think that anyone wants to dispel racism and create equality? There's a lot of talk. Nothing more. Voter suppression, CRT criticism and growth of white nationalist extremists are some of the push back.

"I would much rather see a tv show about queen Nefertiti than another show about Anne Boleyn that's diverse."

Me too, but that's not reality. There will be another white actress playing Nefertiti and racists complaining about Ann Boleyn or another character - real or fiction - played by an actress/actor who is black.

"I want to see what has been contributed."

Then, read history books and watch documentaries. I just finished reading a book about the Jewish diaspora, two books about Indigenous American history before Europeans and now I'm watching a PBS documentary called Africa's Great Civilizations and reading about my region. I also watch a lot of foreign shows.

Anne Baxter, the Ten Commandments movie- top role in middle:
https://www.vox.com/2014/8/4/5955253/Hollywood-egypt-white-people-exodus-gods-and-kings

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[–] sslssg (27397) 3 years ago

Are you American?

I do read books and I watch documentaries. Why should that mean that I shouldn't want to see a change in Hollywood and it's movies?

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Anne Boleyn is a British series.

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[–] sslssg (27397) 3 years ago

I know it is British, I don't know what the British film industry is called and that doesn't change that I want to see a change in Hollywood.

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[–] TheArgentinian (6422) 3 years ago

Of course nobody is judging it by its artistic merits. They made their minds up the moment the casting was announced.

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[–] Keelai (31772) 3 years ago

Exactly!

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