'Danish Agro'


I've just seen this film for the first time today and I thought it was excellent overall, particularly as I love Scandinavian films, but there were just a couple of tiny plot holes - the Skype exchange and Elias' mother saying that Christian had killed her son. However, did anyone else notice in the scene where Lars first slaps Anton's face in the playground incident, there was a building in the background with the sign 'Danish Agro' that was shown briefly, which was presumably a business name? However, it seemed to be more than a coincidence given the context of the film. Cheers, Steve.

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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Please explain, Spyott. Where are the holes?

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The first is the failed attempt by Elias to tell his father what was happening between the boys in the Skype conversation. I realise that the father was having his own problems in Africa and he was very tired but I think he would still have reacted if he had heard exactly what his son had said. He knew his son was having problems at school and Skype is not normally that bad to use. I did not really understand this sequence and why it was shown. The second is Elias's mother telling Christian that he had killed her son when she knew he clearly hadn't - he wasn't even that seriously injured by the blast - and the dramatic reaction that this caused in Christian which was a major part of the film plot. These are just mine and my wife's opinions and if we've missed anything, please let us know. Cheers, Steve

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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Hi, Steve.

In the first instance, there's a lot of static on the line, so Anton can't really hear what Elias is saying. Anton isn't expecting Elias to call, he's had an extremely stressful day, & the connection problems give him an excuse to beg off "until tomorrow." Surely a grave mistake in retrospect, but understandable in context.

In the second instance, Marianne is enraged when Christian arrives at the hospital. She doesn't know at that point that Elias will recover. She's fears the worst & hates Christian because she knows he was the instigator. She overreacts. Later she apologizes to Christian by bringing him to the hospital herself to visit Elias once he is able to speak again.

In both instances, good parents act badly because they're human. Therefore, neither instance is "a plot hole," rather examples where, try as we might, we can never be perfect.

Anyway, that's my take.

Bye now,
Jan

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Thank you for your response, Jan. I appreciate that your explanations are probably what the director wants the audience to accept and believe and if they make complete sense to you, then that is fine. However, I do not find them at all convincing. Both the adults concerned, Elias's father and mother, are highly trained and specialised medical professionals and I think we should expect more human concern and rationality from them about the human and medical situations with which they are dealing, particularly the father, knowing his son has had previous problems at school. I think the so-called Skype static is just some kind of unconvincing dramatic filmic device to heighten the tension of the narrative. I think we can assume they have both used Skype previously without any technical problems. This was an unscheduled call from his son and it could be argued that it might make the father even more concerned to know if there was some kind of problem with his son. I realise the mother is angry and upset about her son but I think such a medical professional telling a young boy, even in her pain, that he is responsible for the death of his school friend when she knows it is not (yet) true is completely irresponsible with the strong potential for even more tragic consequences and, accordingly, I really find that this scene lacks credibility. This is just my take on these situations. Cheers, Steve.

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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I don't disagree that both parents act badly, & if you're not convinced I can certainly understand why. I'm just saying that while both parents do act "completely irresponsible" in these specific situations, these aren't "plot holes" per se. Rather they're instances of people not living up to their best intentions.

Me, I've had static on skype, static on cellphones, etc, etc, so much as we all depend on technology these days, that sometimes fails us too. "In a Better World" everything would be perfect... but that's not "the real world" in which most of us still live...

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I fully understand the position you are arguing on these two situations, Jan, and I can see how they can be interpreted in the way you suggest but I was just not convinced by them at the time I watched the film. They just seemed like plot devices to drive the narrative in a particular direction. I realise we shouldn't be analysing these things to death because no fictional work of art could survive this. A similar point about the use of a specific plot device could be made about Christian just 'happening' to find unknown very large amounts of gunpowder in unused fireworks in his grandfather's shed. Without this gunpowder, there would not have been the major event essential to the film plot as they had no other way to wreak revenge on Lars's van. Cheers, Steve.

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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When I went to ROTTEN TOMATOES, I noticed that many male film critics (altho certainly not all) have criticized this film for excessive parallelism, coincidence, whatever, they just don't buy it. On the other hand, many female film critics (altho certainly not all) found the characters very compelling & accepted the "specific plot devices" as the structure required to tell this particular story.

Do you doubt that Christian would have found some way to act out given that he felt a personal need to stick it to Lars? Maybe finding the fireworks seems too convenient to you, that's for you to say & not me. All I can say is that I saw IABW twice, & both times tears were pouring down my face at the end.

Like most people, I long to live "In a Better World" without evil (poverty, cancer, bullies, etc, etc). This film reminded me that altho I would never live in such a world, I had to keep believing in it -- & working towards it --anyway.

You can take the ending literally, but we all know no one in this film actually lives "happily ever after." Rather they all just keep keepin' on, which is the reality of life here on Planet Earth.

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Hi Jan, I'm not sure I really buy gender explanations for differences in film critique and interpretation but as I am certainly no expert in cultural studies, I would bow to the expertise of others on such matters. Both my wife and I loved this film as a whole but we both thought that these two particular situations seriously strained credibility and therefore detracted from the film. Cheers, Steve

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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Can't explore this whole topic in detail, Steve, but I'm not alone in noticing the discrepancy in this specific instance:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/thompsononhollywood/2011/04/04/oscar-winner_in_a_better_worlds_box_office_slashed_by_harsh_reviews/

Me, I had no problem with either of the plot points that seemed to bother you, but I was confused by the whole language issue: Why are Anton & Elias in Denmark if they're supposed to be Swedish, & how does this language aspect add anything to an already stuffed plot? That's the reason I personally downgraded IABW to 4.5 (with 5 as max).

Anyway, here's my full review:

http://www.womenarts.org/reviews/InaBetterWorld.htm

Great chatting with you here on IMDb :-)

All best!
Jan

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Hi Jan, I've enjoyed all the previous films I've seen that were made by this director. This film was no different for me, apart from these minor plot device quibbles, and I'm very glad it has been recognised with its major awards. I generally don't read reviews before I see films that interest me, such as Scandinavian films. I'm not a big reader of film reviews anyway. I don't really understand this gender issue in regard to the reaction to this film and it does not really interest me very much. I just enjoyed the film. Having Swedes in a Danish film did not strike me as an issue which needed explanation - like having Canadians in an American film or New Zealanders in an Australian film. I understand that major Scandinavian films are usually co-funded by all the film bodies in all the countries and that is why these films often have actors from different Scandinavian countries. However, from a plot point of view, the anti-Swedish bigotry of Lars (which I have never noticed before in any other Scandinavian film) could be seen as yet another example of what would not exist In A Better World. It's been great chatting with you. Cheers, Steve

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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Not a film per se, but the TV series "Riget" explored a Sweeden vs Denmark sort of rivalry. That was done with a more bizarre humour than anything terribly serious, however, but it did make me wonder about the cultural history between the two places and people.

A few people discuss it on the Riget board.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108906/board/

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You couldn't have put it better, films42. Too many people seem to be focusing in finding unplausible situations or extreme coincidences in this film than admiring and immersing in its message. If you really try, can't you find exxagerations in any film? That's not the point for me... As long as a film succeeds to bring tears into my eyes by the end of it, no matter what devices it employs in doing that, it definitely will stay with me till the day I die. You can argue that it's far-fetched, situations are highly unlikely (and some are), manipulative and so on, but its construction and emotionally charged ending definitely work for some people (like you and me) much better and in a more definitory way than other "classics" do. A movie should be judged by whether it achieves its goals, not by the ways it employs to get there.

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[deleted]

There was another significance to the failed SKYPE call, that's what got Elias to agree to join Christian in his bomb-making. When he wasn't able to let it out with his dad, he became angered and frustrated and decided to help Christian.

In my opinion, each character was pushed to his or her limit that made them eventually become violent or verbally abusive.

Jan 25, 2011 the day it all started. Walk like an Egyptian or just protest like one!

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Yes... I totally agree with your comments on those two points. They are very convincing facts.

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Yes, Danish Agro is just a Danish company (agricultural supplier). I didn't even notice it, but maybe you're right.

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Thanks for the confirmation. I'd like to think it was more than a coincidence but who knows? Cheers, Steve

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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A bad internet connection in a remote area of Africa? Why is that so hard to believe? It was probably dial-up. Some of you must have forgotten how bad those were.

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In the past I used skype many times to communicate across different continents, with one end in a Third World country - while it usually was fine, having problems wasn't rare, either. As Elias at first said he just wanted to talk, not 'I have something really important to tell you.' So although it's very 'coincidental' it's very far from impossible. Likewise with what the mother said - maybe not the most likely thing, but hardly unbelievable.

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Fully agree with what you say but these two events are used as highly crucial plot devices in the film and although I that small events can have huge consequences in both real life and films, it is this feeling of contrivance that makes the film's plot development feel less than natural to me. I regularly use Skype from Australia with one if my sons in the UK and if there is a glitch, we just re-connect - no dramas. Still a great film, though. Cheers, Steve

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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Fully agree with what you say but these two events are used as highly crucial plot devices in the film and although I know that small events can have huge consequences in both real life and films, it is this feeling of contrivance that makes the film's plot development feel less than natural to me. I regularly use Skype from Australia with one of my sons in the UK and if there is a glitch, we just re-connect - no dramas. Still a great film, though. Cheers, Steve

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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I don't really think his dad was in the mood to reconnect. His mind was clearly elsewhere. He'd just then seen the refugees kill Big Man and he knows that his henchman are likely to be back soon for revenge. The only hole in the film, as far as I am concerned, is that this never happens. I think it would have been more realistic had it been an unhappy ending and the henchmen come back and kill the doctor dad in the final scene, or something equally disturbing. Though of course, it would have been a much more upsetting story for the viewer, though much more realistic, surely.

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I accept that that the father was very distracted by the events in the camp as a partial explanation for the 'failed' skype call. The events in the camp could have been played out in different ways but I guess a really bad outcome wouldn't have fitted in with the 'in a better world' theme. The film is basically superb and mostly completely plausible which makes some very important and timely moral points. My minor criticisms are just that it used a couple of seemingly contrived small plot events to help the whole story to hang together more completely.

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book" Cicero

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Having used Skype many times and given up many times because of technical problems (and I work online so I'm very savvy) I found the Skype call believable. Anton was not in a frame of mind to discuss things with his son that evening. Now I've had problems using Skype Canada to USA and you'd think that wouldn't cause a problem but we've had tons. Skype is not a perfect technology and not only does the connection have to be good but BOTH of your computers must also be able to handle it and if you are using a webcam your webcam or mic could still go out. Skype isn't a webcam/microphone. Skype isn't a broadband connection. It's a client that uses those things together to make video/audio calls. Everything's got to be working well and consistently for you to get a good call. (At the end of your Skype calls they even ask you how was the quality etc.) And I can say I have been on Skype calls with my mom where things just weren't working very well and we gave up on it. Don't even get me started on all the problems Skype actually has (depending on what build you're running as well).

The thing with Marianne telling Christian that he killed Elias, I thought she was wanting to scare the *beep* out of him, basically. I got the sense that she was so angry and that Elias could have died that instead of wringing Christian's neck she tried to impress upon him the gravity of what his little prank had done. She didn't care at that point about Christian's feelings or what he might do or if he regretted his actions. I can totally get why she did it.


I am in a thousand winds that blow,
I am the softly falling snow.

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I fully accept your arguments supporting the plausibility of those two particular plot points. However, I was just commenting on my own reactions to them which was that they felt slightly contrived and, because they were so crucial to the plot development, rather than merely peripheral, this made the whole film slightly less convincing. Overall, though, I still thought it was an excellent film with a great message. Also, I have really enjoyed all of this particular director's films that I have seen. Cheers, Steve

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