MovieChat Forums > Fat Head (2009) Discussion > An example of how this film misleads

An example of how this film misleads


So I didn't like the movie. Though I did like a couple things the guy brought up, as it was informational (in an indirect way as you'll see).

For example,

In his diatribe against the standard "high cholesterol causes heart disease", he brought up a researcher by the name of Kilmer McCully who worked out of Harvard Medical School in the early 80's (this appears around the 1 hour 9 minute mark of the movie). The Fat Head Document correctly points out that McCully had been advocating his own research that showed that homocysteine was the casual factor in heart disease not necessarily cholesterol. This line of thinking and research has re-arisen the past couple decades after being initially shunned (this shunning was shown in the documentary as well to strengthen the viewers belief that the national health organizations like the CDC and NIH aren't reliable sources). Homocysteine centers around the idea that reduced levels of B12, B6, and folic acid (also having kidney disease and cigarette smoking) will allow for the homocysteine process to damage circulatory system and resulting heart disease.

Here's a perfect example of why I didn't like the movie, and more specifically wanted to punch the main guy in the face (I also couldn't take his obvious sarcasm and pompous attitude).

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/10/magazine/the-fall-and-rise-of-kilmer-mccully.html?pagewanted=11&src=pm

This New York Times article detailed the rise and fall of McCully, in it you will also see that McCully never advocated that eating a high cholesterol diet would be good for a person. In fact, if you read this section quoted from that article:


"What, then, is the diet most likely to lead to heart disease, according to the homocysteine theory? One high in animal protein and low in B-vitamins, which occur in many foods but are very easily destroyed by processing -- a diet of meat, cheese, milk, white flour and foods that are canned, boxed, refined, processed or preserved. The American diet, in other words."


So on one hand the Fat Head documentary wants to use the example of Kilmer McCully to support the documentaries message that we (general public) are being misled by the government (visa-vi the government agencies such as the NIH and CDC) in being told that high cholesterol is linked to increase in heart disease, but on the other hand the documentary chooses to ignore that McCully's findings still support the same dietary message that NIH and CDC promote, that a diet high in animal protein (or larger servings of meat) simple carbs (white flour, refined sugars, etc.) and processed foods are bad for our health.

This kind of "reporting of facts" through a documentary just pisses me off. It's this kind of behavior on the part of the documentarian that calls in to question his/her work ethic and really the legitimacy of the whole piece.

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[deleted]

That line was taken from the NY Times article (hence the quotes) which was a collaboration between the writer and the researcher providing the information.

So now you are aware of someone within the scientific community no less, that is advocating against large amounts of animal protein.

Here's the next paragraph following that original quote from the NY Times article:

Here was a strong connection between diet and heart disease, but one that took a different path from cholesterol. The homocysteine theory considers arteriosclerosis a disease of what McCully calls ''protein intoxication.'' The cholesterol theory (sometimes called the lipid theory) instead demonizes fats. Since proteins and fats often occur in the same foods, the potential dietary treatments for high homocysteine and high cholesterol are similar, with this distinction: the anti-homocysteine diet focuses on what should be eaten, as a preventive, while the anti-cholesterol diet focuses on what should be avoided, as a precipitator. Thus, a diet of lower homocysteine would include many natural sources of B-vitamins like fresh fruits and vegetables and would limit animal protein. The cholesterol-reducing diet would limit foods high in saturated fats and cholesterol, like eggs, meat and butter.


AvengingTilde, please go read the article next time before commenting. Considering some of your posts in other threads you are starting to create a theme for yourself as someone who isn't interested in hearing dissenting evidence and rather only wants to jam your opinion out there.

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[deleted]

no.

(additionally, please explain how my previous post is not rational? Remember to work off the definition of the word:

ra·tion·al
[rash-uh-nl, rash-nl] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: a rational plan for economic development.
2.
having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense: a calm and rational negotiator.
3.
being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid: The patient appeared perfectly rational.
)

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[deleted]

Again AvengingTilde, please identify where that previous post was irrational.

Here's the basic premise:

You challenge that you have never heard a scientist state a diet high in animal protein is bad for you.

I submit that the same article (that you should have read prior to responding to my original post) you were responding about includes a researcher from Harvard Medical School that proposes that a diet high in animal protein is bad for you.

I believe that I have proven that now you have observed a scientist that believes a diet high in animal protein is bad for you.

Once again, please respond to the original argument.

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[deleted]

An ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the truth of a claim to a negative characteristic or belief of the person advocating it.[1] The ad hominem is normally described as a logical fallacy,[2][3][4] but it is not always fallacious; in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.[5]


Taken from your wiki link.

Though I'm not sure exactly what "claim" you are challenging here, it could be the preposterous attempt at connecting my request to read the original NY Times article (where, once again you would have observed a researcher stating it is not good to eat a diet high in animal protein, thus negating the need for you to even make your first response! Hence my assumption that you did not read the article is founded regardless of any sort of negative characteristic or belief I have of you as a person) before commenting and then my observation that some of your other posts in other threads, when taken together, are forming a theme that depicts you as someone not interested in dissenting evidence.

Or perhaps you believe that my observation of your posting behaviors should somehow invalidate the objective evidence I presented with regards to the original topic at hand "researchers advocating for less animal protein in diets". I'm not sure how you are going to convince many people that you are somehow being victimized by ad-hominem or irrational counter claims.

A separate argument could be that, per your wiki linked definition of ad hominem, the observation of your posting behavior can be a valid presentation of evidence towards a relevant issue (whether or not you read the original article before posting).

So I guess you can pick your beef (no pun intended) and let me know if you'd like. Or you can simply acknowledge that there is dissenting opinion in the form of the former Harvard Medicine researcher that a diet high in animal protein is bad for most people.


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[deleted]

And lady's and gentleman! Another example of AvengingTilde skirting the issue. I guess you are operating by the "if you don't play the game, you can't lose" saying. Your silence in responding to the original issue will have to be solace enough for me.

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I'd call that thoroughly SPNAK!ed out of the thread, considering he's baleeted all of his own posts herein. ;)

I have opinions of my own, but I don't always agree with them - George Bush

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zarathustra2k1 I couldn't have put it better my self (minus the misspelling of spanked and deleted,but we shall let that slide,lol)

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You seem to be overlooking the rest of the statement, it is not just "high in animal protein", but also simple carbs and processed foods. I don't see where the statement you quote excluded the other two - simple carbs and processed foods. In fact, reading the statement you posted gives all three equal weight. Why are you focused on meat to the exclusion of simple carbs and processed foods?

"diet high in animal protein (or larger servings of meat) simple carbs (white flour, refined sugars, etc.) and processed foods are bad for our health."
r

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If you look and see the "deleted by poster" posts and my references to a specific poster (avengetide or whatever his handle is) you can see that I was dialogging with this person. What you are not able to see is where he was taking the conversation. My "overlooking of the rest of the statement" wasn't intentional, it just appears that way because the other poster decided to delete his/her posts.

Another point that supports why I may have focused more on the "animal protein" part is because the film doesn't really contend that eating simple carbs and processed foods is a good thing and unrelated to heart health (it mostly side-steps that issue by the "documenentarian" avoiding the "fries and milkshakes" associated with typical fast food meals). The main contention is that animal protein (and as far as the movie sees it, animal protein from fast food sources) is not necessarily contributory to heart disease. So the movie more or less is leading the discussion to the "animal protein" side of it anyways. I think everyone agrees simple carbs and processed food is not "good" for you, particularly if it acts as a replacement for healthier natural food.

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joejirik, you sir, are an azz clown. the info in this film should have opened up your eyes and showed that you have been lied to for 50 years about nutrition. now go eat a bowl of special k, slappy.

imdb commenters.. almost as bad as youtubers.

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Nice ad hominem comment. Typical of those responding out of emotion with little reasoning to support their contention.

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ad hominem... yea, that's full of carbs too. go snack on that and try to lose weight.

imdb commenters.. almost as bad as youtubers.

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Yup.

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imdb commenters like derek242... worse than youtubers.

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Excellent points joejirik. This movie is mixed with good information and misleading information.

Also, I think that Avenger may have lost sleep over his spankings.

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while i didn't actually follow up with all the fact-checking, i'm going to assume the OP's statements are factual (the movie quoting for support a scientist guy who actually supports the same diet which the movie is against).

nonetheless, the author was only trying to show how govt agencies are not entirely reliable and may be motivated by conflicting interests in their scientific research. in the narrower context of presenting the govt's unsavoury conduct, film is right to cite the scientist's experience with the govt.

it may come across as slightly disingenuous that this scientist turns out to whole a different opinion than the film regarding the actual nutritional science, but BOTH the scientist and the filmmaker shared a common stand against the govt's misleading science. it's not a perfect combination, but for that segment i think it's fair.

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nonetheless, the author was only trying to show how govt agencies are not entirely reliable and may be motivated by conflicting interests in their scientific research. in the narrower context of presenting the govt's unsavoury conduct, film is right to cite the scientist's experience with the govt.


This is a fair point on the surface, but when the filmmaker goes to lengths of deception through cherry-picking statements to fit his narrative, I think it completely undermines any validity that is being made in the film.

When someone presents research findings, they are encouraged to also present limitations to those findings, and to acknowledge limitations. They are certainly not expected to distort the truth to fit their narrative.

The documentary film is more and more becoming the avenue of information manipulation and spreading of misinformation. The truth pointed at in the film that you shouldn't trust the gov't to know what it is doing and to be accurate in developing healthy guidelines for its citizens is unfortunately lost in the fact that you can't trust this same filmmaker to put aside his bias and per-determined narrative when creating this film.

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Your args are invalid throughout; and I'm surprised no-one was mentioned the obv. First; the avg 117g french fries portion (according to the McDonald's chart), has 380 calories; of which 19g are fat, 50g are water and protein, and 48g come from carbs. This means that ~216cal comes solely from carbs; or about 57%. This is well within the aprox 100g limit stated, and it also matches the showed summed meal charts. Also, when asked for fries; he emphatically said no. For there are other side dishes on the menus besides french fires. He simply didn't had fries everyday. Second; it's simply impossible to quote full articles, otherwise instead of a documentary; we'd end up with a long video research paper. Taking only the relevant part only becomes misleading when either audiences are dumb, or the point is not truly relevant. Studies which are inconsistent not only within themselves; in lieu of the biological axiomatic dosage effect; but specifically funded to support said views. Eating a high fat and protein diet is obv only damaging if you overeat (or have some other sort of inherent health prob, like kidney issues); as in every other thing. Most people never have an issue, and most likely, never will. The whole ending segment was done purposefully in order to simplify it and take out all carbs (french fries, etc) out of the equation. Third; the guy's a computer something/amateur comedian/first time filmmaker; so cut him some slack. Maybe it was just an honest mistake. Nevertheless, the principle remains the same and valid. Saying that the whole movie is flawed on that singular account is simply idiotic. It merely undermines it's credibility; a little. In any event, I'd rather trust this guy way more that you or the NYT. Because we all know how all research, news reports, and documentaries were, are, and will always be, infallible and unbiased bastions of truth

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ROTFL !!! Think you might want to do a little more research...

God these Weston Price folks are snakes:



Large French Fries
mcdonalds, mcdonalds large fries, fast food, fries, mcdonalds french fries
C
Grade
500
Calories
Nutrition Facts
Serving Size 5 2/5 oz (154 g)
Per Serving % Daily Value*
Calories 500
Calories from Fat 225
Total Fat 25.0g 38%
Saturated Fat 3.5g 18%
Sodium 350mg 15%
Carbohydrates 63.0g 21%
Dietary Fiber 6.0g 24%
Protein 6.0g


Read more: Calories in McDonald's - Large French Fries | Nutrition and Health Facts http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-mcdonalds-large-french-fries-i53926#ixzz2iKhkUP9D

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