I watched it when it first came out I have also seen the first. It was pretty good, gave some good points. Just dont believe everything you see has a lot of falsehoods in it also. It would have been better if it didnt have the brainwashing elements in it. (The visuals and colors and repetitive notions) Which lead me to think off the back it was BS. Still very informative....
share[deleted]
Max Payne. I do believe Marx wrote almost the same things in 1848.
The Venus Project will never succeed, simply because of its dreamy goal and lack of proper practical action. We are to honestly believe that crime, police and the law will all disappear from lack of use? Or that everyone will magically work together?
The only way you can make that happen is if you kill off your opponents and turn the rest into mindless zombies.
No we're not to expect that.
Most Americans probably cannot function in the Venus Project. They've been skitted out on a consumer side-track to life, that has really brougt in the education you need to be unable to function in this "Utopia".
What's a Utopia for them, is, however, very possible for anyone who is ready to shed their ties to this failing system and try something new, which at its core seeks to redeem the lost glorious human feeling which is empathy.
With the introduction of empathy, there can be a new world. People will take joy in helping each other.
Those who cannot and will not believe this, remind me of little kids at Christmas. Not giving a damn about giving, but wanting to recieve an endless stream of gifts themselves.
If you have no faith in humanity, I can see why the current system is a nice warm pillow for you. It requires you to do nothing, that would actually benefit more people than yourself.
My guess is, more than half of the world is in the need of change.
exactly nightblast, it reminds too much of a Marx... It bears the truth but it's delusional about true human nature, which is, in basic, brutal.
shareThere is no human nature.
Any being as intelligent as we are, is highly unlikely to be having a natural pattern. The constant evolution we're going through is seeing to that.
Like Peter suggests - if you take someone from Beverly Hills and compare them to a village person in Africa, can you honestly say they are alike in anything other having been the same species?
Human nature is an unintelligent argument made up to account for things in a simplistic way. It is ridiculous to assume our intelligence level can work together with a natural pattern that enslaves us.
Human experiences are brutal - not nature. A lion is brutal. A spider is brutal. A human can be brutal. A human can also not be.
This has nothing to do with Marx. And the reason Americans fail to see that is that your whole view of the political sphere is brainwashing in itself. Being a communist is equal to questioning capitalism. Why exactly?
You are completely mistaken.
nothing matters
here in The Netherlands we have far less crimes then in america, I do believe that;s the cause of the infrastructure in America, luxemburg and sweden are very wealthy countries (with balanced upper and lower classes), and they both have very low crime rates. If the difference between upper and lower class diminishes so will crime. every body gets a equal amount of stuff why should you fight? personal vendetta en testosterone, well we'll keep a few cells just in case, just not nearly as much as we use now.
shareSweden has very high crime rates. I dear say blasphemy. Crawl back to where you came from.
To add to the topic: yes, it technically is brainwashing, but I also see their point, and it is that the masses are too stupid to do anything, and they will play the game the elite orchestrate for them. So if the elite decided to stop being greedy, mother-vending beasts, slowly but securely the masses would follow. It is not utopic to think that, how could it be? All evidence points toward herd behavior, be it the western or the third world.
I readily accept the fractional reserve banking system in the first part of the film. It seems well researched using original sources. This was later cemented where my mother whose worked in banks for 25 years confirmed the nature of the fractional reserve.
The Venus project, while very promising is also highly idealistic. Capitalism will not go without a fight as those with power will do almost anything to keep it and those without will likely descend into pure chaos. The transition will need to be very carefully managed if it is to be successful.
What really bothers me is the economic hitman and what makes me question the whole film. It's centrally focused around the interview of a self-confessed economic hitman (surely his actions were illegal and by admitting them on camera, isn't he opening himself to prosecution?). To me, he lacks the hard edged character one would need to be capable of bringing down a government or country for profit and his reputation is up to scrutiny with other sources claiming that he is a liar.
Of course, government sources would say that, you say? Well whether he was or not, the government will say the same thing, so that doesn't prove is disprove his claims. I have to judge him on his character and on that basis, he doesn't convince me.
'Before this war is over, the world will know that few stood against many.' - 300
I readily accept the fractional reserve banking system in the first part of the film. It seems well researched using original sources. This was later cemented where my mother whose worked in banks for 25 years confirmed the nature of the fractional reserve.
The Venus project, while very promising is also highly idealistic. Capitalism will not go without a fight as those with power will do almost anything to keep it and those without will likely descend into pure chaos. The transition will need to be very carefully managed if it is to be successful.
What really bothers me is the economic hitman and what makes me question the whole film. It's centrally focused around the interview of a self-confessed economic hitman (surely his actions were illegal and by admitting them on camera, isn't he opening himself to prosecution?). To me, he lacks the hard edged character one would need to be capable of bringing down a government or country for profit and his reputation is up to scrutiny with other sources claiming that he is a liar.
Of course, government sources would say that, you say? Well whether he was or not, the government will say the same thing, so that doesn't prove is disprove his claims. I have to judge him on his character and on that basis, he doesn't convince me.
Lol, don't talk like you're the only one who knows what's going on. This isn't the frickin 50's. I think most people are more aware of the system. However, brainwashing works both ways. Don't be too trusting to the people who were allegedly "showing you the light", or you'll just become a pawn, enlightened one.
shareIf this really was enlightening the people and the governments feared this message all the moviews would be banned, joseph and fresco would be put to death.
IF you are a danger to the system. the system (or parta of it) wont commend you llike par ts of media and so forth do to these movies.
i think that the parts related with fed, money, interest and monetary system is right. no body denied "confession of a economic hit man" part which is a separate book and author is writing his 2nd book now about it.
however, about human psychology and religion parts, the movie is failed.
i really love this movie. but, how cannot a person who think all of this stuff understand existence of God??
about "interest" and consequences of it, i can sign the bottom of movie but not religion part....
The existence of which of the hundreds(or even more) of made up gods should we understand?
shareAs I said before the brainwashing elements in it. (The visuals and colors and repetitive notions)
share---quote---
As I said before the brainwashing elements in it. (The visuals and colors and repetitive notions)
---ends----
I agree. What a great masterpiece this documentary is, but it would be even better without those visuals and repetitive notions. That way even people with more criticism might take it more seriously.
ill say this,ive been an atheist for about 13 years,im 30 now and my disbeliefs are based on people ive known in my past,a childhood 'friend' had a mother and stepfather who were fanatics and were judgemental of me for being into metallica-"dope music" as i remember they called it.my friend wasnt allowed to watch married with children while his favortie show was matlock.he was pretty much a jerk to me too.
the mother was hot but she was f(_)ckin weird.
later on,the father of another friend actually preached to me for about 3 hours until i finally found a reason to leave.
aside from these lunatics there are also morons and JW's who have confronted me on the street and like everyone else,at home.
no,religion isnt about control...
and no,this movie and trying to brainwash anyone bud,its trying to cleanse our minds.
How do you make five lbs. of fat look good?Put a nipple on it.
Do you deem yourself unable to filter out the things you do not want to believe? I think that's a hard-hitting confession if anything, that you are susceptible to the establishment and their agenda.
You find an independant movie more dangerous than a manipulating corporatocracy?
Besides - people will critisize this movie regardless of how it was made. The elements it contains are simply to delicate to not cause a fuss.
I agree, I wouldn't call the notions expressed in the film brainwashing per se but they are just opinions, opinions that feel very out of place in a film trying to impress critical thinking on its viewers.
By the way, Precaseptica, most of your rhetoric and language seems to have come straight from this movie. You're no more enlightened if you blindly follow a replacement ideology.
The movie criticizes the monetary system we take for granted, the power of religion, banks and cooperations - their foundations and their major, controlling role in the way the world looks today.
It offers a glimpse into the real possibility of worldwide clean, free energy and abundance.
The problem is it doesn't take a distance from itself, doesn't criticize itself and becomes dogmatic and tasteless.
Its such a shame, because while putting forward a bunch of good information and ideas, it also keeps them shallow. The dramatic music, the imagery of flowers versus bombs, then it sets up new set of rules to follow and finally ends in pure kitsch with the badly performed enlightenment of a businessmen, a vain women and a soldier (on a massive siemens screen??!)
Why the urge to be simplistic and exaggerative? Why not take the viewer serious?
The arguments are strong and interesting. Presenting them as infallible truths is parallel to preaching.
I still got a lot from watching it, but I'm really disappointed at the missed potential.
(andfeel a bit like throwing up)
What I got from this movie was a great desire to make this 'Utopia' a reality.
However what I think is more likely is that this film is more of a demonstration of what could of or should have happened. What Humans should have done. Instead of doing what we did in the beginning - Creating Money/Religion/Every Man for Himself syndrome - we should have recognised that resources should be free to everyone and anything and everything we do should be done to maintain a healthy planet, since we can't actually exist without one.
Who knows, maybe we are just a fail species and some other planet out there got it right from day one, which is why we always imagine a more technologically advanced species being out there and coming to Earth to dominate us. When in fact we have the capabilities to be that advanced species, we just know that we hold ourselves back with all of the cruelty and injustice we accept as "human nature".
We have great technology - look at the iphone... who remembers polyphonic ringtones? Technology can only continue to expand from where it is now, but can humanity grow up and do anything useful with it?
*sigh*
- Feed your head...
I know what you mean, it did at one point seem like pure propaganda BUT if you go to the official website or i think even google video has it. There is an "orientation" video that goes very much into to detail about the potentials of the Venus Project and solutions to different types of crimes or criminals. It's like 2 hours long but it is not nearly as "flashy"(?) as the actual Zeitgeist films. I'm half asleep right now so i can't really remember much more than that but it might be something people who don't like the "dogmatic" feel of the movie might find better.
shareyes, excellent, thank you.
I am a very visual person, so in that sense it was quite dry...
but hey, no more whining, it was very convincing and is definitely recommendable for its build up of information and ideas.
The "brainwashing elements" are present in most movies made during the zeroes. I don't think Peter Joseph was trying to brainwash anyone...at least not by visual effects. Now if you're referring to misinformation....
I had exactly that same feeling after seeing it. It made me feel a bit nervous to believe, because I felt like it was all true but the fact that they were trying to drill it into me the whole time made me a little bit dubious of what it was trying to do, was it inform or indocrinate?? I liked what they were trying to say and the message but not the way they tried to persuade. And the whole venus project part was kinda creepy, like they were trying to recruit people to this chilling 'utopian' world where death was almost not an option.
shareNoone trying to brainwash would be so stupid as to tell you to question.
That's like giving a prisoner the key to their cell.
I know what you mean bcscover, given the topic I would've done it in a more humbler way, but it's not that bad, it works.
I have a little issue with this Venus Project though, it reminds me of Animal Farm by George Orwell.
Ironically, the best option for us would be if there really was an all mighty God.