MovieChat Forums > 1066 (2009) Discussion > Looking good

Looking good

posted 15 years ago by journalist1
15 replies | jump to latest

http://www.tvscoop.tv/assets_c/2009/05/0336-thumb-130x132-90095.jpg

What amazes me is how little coverage this epic period has received from film makers.
The English, beating not one but two entire foreign invading armies then running while exhausted to a third battle against completely fresh troops, to win while the Norman French are in a shambles then to lose through bravado at the last moment!

Astonishing.

“Courage is the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees all others.”

[–] Theo Robertson 15 years ago

The French ?

I think you'll find that the Normans aren't French - they're of Northern European ethnicity . In fact the word " Norman " is a deviation of the word " Norseman "

[–] journalist1 15 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Invasion_of_England

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans

While the origins of Normans lay outside Normandy by 1066 William used Norman FRENCH troops who went on to commit a massive cultural genocide against the indigenous English destroying their language, Churches and literature.

The impact was so great on the English psyche that it reflects down the halls of time in everything they did post 1066 in dealing with potential invaders.

JRR Tolkien made it his life's work to bring a little of the mythology and cultural heritage back to England in his fictional work Lord Of The Rings.
He succeeded very well.

tb

“Courage is the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees all others.”

[–] holycriphesacrapple-1 15 years ago

"I think you'll find that the Normans aren't French"

Hilarious! Did you even go to school?

1066 is an amazing time in history and I always thought it was absolutely ripe for adaptation into a film or TV series. Such a shame it was bungled so badly last night. The budget must've all gone on Ian Holm's narration.

I wanted to like it so much because it's a great tale, and it was British. But having sat through the whole thing I feel greatly saddened and cheated that so little effort had gone into making it.

And the faux Lord of the Rings tie-ins just compounded what a shambles the whole thing was.

And as for all that cr@p about elves . . .

[–] Theo Robertson 15 years ago

Yup I did go to school and the Normans aren't an indignous French people , they were only established in France about a hundred years before they invaded England . As I said " Norman " is a deviation of the word " Norseman "

In fact the Anglo Saxons aren't really English either - they're a combination of Germanic tribes . The true indigeous population were the Celts

[–] journalist1 15 years ago

Your point is completely anal, by the time of the Norman Invasion William's troops WERE French and for all intent & purpose the Anglo Saxon race that had settled in England were ENGLISH!.

We are all aware of the roots of the various sides during the Norman Invasion but it's hardly relevant.

A similar analogy would be you berating me that during the American Civil War me calling the warring parties 'American's' was incorrect and that I should in fact call them English or European, or actually INDO-European ;-)

Again, by the time of the American Civil War both sides were AMERICAN.

tb

“Courage is the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees all others.”

[–] jh66 15 years ago

I agree with most points, guys- but two things;-

This was a story primarily about English folks, not British.

And the indigenous peoples of this island were not the Celts, who invaded 7-500bc.

[–] andyg35 15 years ago

Surely your average Norman in 1066 would've considered himself 'Norman', not French ?

That's the impression I've picked up over years of amateur interest....'Norman' and 'French' weren't the same thing at all...

AndyG

[–] Pharaoh-in-de-Nile 15 years ago

"In fact the Anglo Saxons aren't really English either - they're a combination of Germanic tribes . The true indigeous population were the Celts"

Actually the Anglo-Saxons named England and created it as a concept so saying they are not English is silly unless you mean only some of them were English? In which case you are almost correct as the people of Northumbria (including the Scots Lowlands up to the Firth of Forth), Mercia and East Anglia were Angles, Englas, or Englisc, and that is where the name originates.
The Saxons or Seaxe settled in Wessex, Sussex, Essex et cetera, and the Jutes or Eotas settled in Kent, Wight and southern Hampshire.
It would still be truer to say they are not British (which correctly means Welsh).

The Celts were not indigenous, that is a myth often spouted (usually by Celtic Nationalists). They displaced a Non-Indo-European Hunter Gatherer people who do not survive (unlike the Celts) and thus we have no idea what they spoke, though it may have been related to Basque or Etruscan and/or the language that gave Proto-Germanic (an Indo-European language and ancestor to English) roughly 40% of its vocabulary (which cannot be traced to Indo-European root forms), this would make sense as their are cultural similarities between the peoples that once inhabited Britain and what is now Germany before the Indo-European settlement. This is based on the archaeological finds, including such things as the building of Stone Circles (a custom that many Germanic tribes later adopted, building them as sites for "Things"...such groups were the Goths and some Scandinavian groups)

"Nothings gonna change my world!"

[–] Theo Robertson 15 years ago

Do you mean the Picts Pharaoh ?

When I was a schoolboy ( Which was unfortunately a long time ago ) I was taught that they were the indigenous inhabitents of the British Isles who left very little history behind of their culture

In recent years however I've been told that the Picts were in fact a sub branch of the Celtic race

Of course as you've insinuated there may be agendas involved in stating the Picts were a Celtic race

[–] huzzie 15 years ago

The Romans found the Picts in Scotland.

They are described as being much smaller than the average Roman or Briton. They were said to be very dark in appearance and were covered in green tattoos. The tattoos are where the name "Picts" come from.

It is thought that they were not related to the Celts.

[–] Pharaoh-in-de-Nile 15 years ago

"Do you mean the Picts Pharaoh ?

When I was a schoolboy ( Which was unfortunately a long time ago ) I was taught that they were the indigenous inhabitents of the British Isles who left very little history behind of their culture"

That is wrong. They were Celtic in an ethnolinguistic sense, and arrived in the British Isles at the same time as the other Celtic groups (actually they were all the same at that point).

"In recent years however I've been told that the Picts were in fact a sub branch of the Celtic race"

Celtic ethnicity, not race. They are actually just part of the Brythonic sub-branch that includes Welsh, Breton and Cornish ethnolinguistic groups.

"Of course as you've insinuated there may be agendas involved in stating the Picts were a Celtic race"

There are, but in this case they are right, the Picts are "Celtic", the main agenda is in claiming the Lowland Scots, English (both Anglic), Orcadians and Shetlanders (Norse) are Celtic or that the Norse-Gaels of the Hebrides are only Celtic (Gaelic) and not a mix of that and Germanic (Norse).

Celtic romanticism is rife at the moment with silly ideas of Celtic (and thus "British") master race and with it superiority. I am sorry to anyone who has such views but to think one group is "racially" superior strikes me as silly and backwards.

"Nothings gonna change my world!"

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bevaremeg 15 years ago

Dear Journalist 1,
You give a run down of the events as if this information was new to you.
Didn't you learn this stuff in school, or is the British education system (Sorry I'm assuming you're from UK) so totally fecked up that they don't even teach about the Battle of Hastings and it's background anymore. (I we covered it in primary 6 in Scotland! Not even our history!)).
In despair,
Bevaremeg
PS - I agree it was well-made - although some of the voice over and text put up was misleading. Also, I missed the start, but did they mention anywhere that the Norman's ere of Viking descent also? (Norman=Norseman)

[–] ContinentalOp 15 years ago

Actually the Picts are indeed Celtic (probably British/Brythonic). The Picts, along with other Celtic tribes, displaced the older non-Indo-European peoples who lived in Britain before them; these are the people that Pharoah refers to.

Yes the Anglo-Saxons were English as ''English'' is a Germanic ethnic group; the name English was used by the Anglo-Saxons to refer to themselves (spelt Englisc). The fact that we try to distance ourselfs from these immigrant people shows the ridiculous and racist mind-set of these 'Britishists'; they cannot face the fact that the English are immigrants from mainland Europe! Farcical!

"An eye for an eye only ends up leaving the whole world blind" - Gandhiji

[–] Pharaoh-in-de-Nile 15 years ago

"Actually the Picts are indeed Celtic (probably British/Brythonic). The Picts, along with other Celtic tribes, displaced the older non-Indo-European peoples who lived in Britain before them; these are the people that Pharoah refers to."

Indeed.

"Yes the Anglo-Saxons were English as ''English'' is a Germanic ethnic group; the name English was used by the Anglo-Saxons to refer to themselves (spelt Englisc). The fact that we try to distance ourselfs from these immigrant people shows the ridiculous and racist mind-set of these 'Britishists'; they cannot face the fact that the English are immigrants from mainland Europe! Farcical!"

Well put. It seems that "Germanic" is a dirty word now (which is ridiculous as it is a valid ethnolinguistic classification) and anyone who acknowledges it are called racist (half the time) by those who actually are racists and claim someone is a Celt due to genetics or that all Germanic peoples are inherently bad or violent and Celts inherently peace-loving rainbow hippies who respect nature whereas Germanic people just destroy it (despite the fact they held trees sacred, preformed rites in wood and were as in touch with nature as any "heathen" (in this case Indo-European) religion of Eurasia).

It's got to the point where in school they teach you about the Celts and Romans and then Normans and onwards, without telling the origins of the English language and culture; where the country called "England" came from.

It's all down to British imperialism, they hate to be seen as immigrants in their "own land" and so they claim to all be descended from the oldest surviving culture, a little like the Macedonians who are actually Slavs and not descended from the Hellenic people of Ancient Macedonia.

"Oh gee gads chaps we can't be in anyway similar to filthy German nazi types and smelly Dutch cheese eaters"

Pathetic.

"Nothings gonna change my world!"