MovieChat Forums > Chi bi: Jue zhan tian xia (2009) Discussion > Just watched Part 2 on Bluray, My Though...

Just watched Part 2 on Bluray, My Thoughts...

posted 15 years ago by Psinex6
5 replies | jump to latest

Just watched Part II a little while ago. Now that I've seen both Part I and II on Bluray, here's my take on everything without spoilers. BTW, I bought Part I at HMV on Hankou Street in Hong Kong, imported Part II from Yesasia.com.

It's a real damn shame that what could have been a great film was mucked up by gimmicky editing and overuse of dissolves and closeups. This results in some very strange montages that don't serve any real purpose. So I guess you could say that the editing on this film is a real hack job. I found the musical score to have some nice moments, but far too Westernized compared to some of Zhang Yimou's films and Tan Dun's scores.

The watermark logos that plagued Part I are thankfully, not on Part II. I felt like the actor who played Cao Cao was pretty good. There is less of the superhero-like fighting skill displayed in Part I. John Woo and the editor's overuse of closeups really robs this film of its epic nature. I noticed the greenish skintones in Part I have been corrected to a more natural look. And there was none of the garishly bright red blood either.

I really would like to buy the rights to the films and recut it, because I think there is a great film in the footage. You could probably even cut down a lot of the footage to create one 4 hour long film. It's so frustrating to watch, because John Woo's style looks so dated now. Constantly dissolving (I counted about 40 consecutive dissolves in one scene), using fabric / sword transitions that were not used in the first film at all...too many gimmicks like the quick zooms in the opening scene with Cao Cao and the Emperor of Part I. No consistency in terms of style...

Overall, I enjoyed the second film more than the first one. There are more politics going on throughout, and more surprising moments. Some of the battle scenes leading into Cao Cao's fortress are pretty spectacular. It's really a shame that what could have been two really great films was butchered in editing.

[–] Goldenboy142 15 years ago

I wouldn't call his style dated, rather, timeless. I felt the little fabric ripping transitions were slightly overused, but overall I liked them. I felt it lends an air of epicness and grace to the film. I actually really dug the wipes transitions in the first part. I didn't find the editing troubling, and I'm usually a big stickler for quick and bad editing. I usually have a big problem with excessive close ups also, but it didn't seem a problem in this film for me.

I liked the score as well. It's composed by a Japanese dude I think, and it's not the first time a big time Asian director uses a Japanese composer. Zhang Yimou uses Shigeru Umebayashi for House of Flying Daggers and Curse of the Golden Flowers. Personally, I loved the music in these flicks, I felt they were epic when needed, and serene and graceful for the little moments. One of the more memorable musical moments for me is the one of the little girl and the flute, and the musical dual between Tony Leung and Takeshi Kaneshiro. I didn't feel it was too western, though it has a certain western influence.

I watched both films on HD, and I thought they looked brilliant. I love the way Woo shot this film. Beautiful movie. I love the way he shot the action as well. Personally I'm getting really really sick of the same shaky camera. it's nice to see someone who's confident enough with his action stage that he lets us see what's going. In regards to the exaggerated action, i love that as well. These are icons of Chinese literature we're lookign at, and he's treat them as such. I like that they are more than just ordinary when they battle, and I LOVE the way they fight.

[–] Psinex6 15 years ago

There were some good moments, yes. In the first film, I felt that there were too many idle close-ups of Takeshi Kaneshiro watching the battlefield. They literally could have cut out half of those shots and been more effective. When they bring the baby to Liu Bei after the opening battle, the score gets so big and grand that it doesn't fit the moment anymore. Another moment that the score outgrows the story is when the army steals the oxen, and then Shidou Nakamura brings a new one to the farmer. So melodramatic, a more subtle emotion would have been more appropriate there. I didn't mind the little girl playing the flute, into the grand transition, because you see an epic shot on the water, up to Red Cliff. There were not so many musical gaffes in the second film.

I didn't mind the hero-like action scenes in the first film. They were well choreographed and fun to watch. But the shield and sun montage had, again, twice as many shots as needed to tell the story. It constantly felt like Woo was beating a dead horse in the editing process. What works for Braveheart is that the action almost feels like it transpires in real time. Like the scene in the muddy village, it all happens fast and brutally, which makes it much more effective. Those silly dueling gu zhang scenes with Tony Leung and Takeshi just brought the story to a grinding halt. It wasn't like they were flinging knives out of them like in Kung Fu Hustle. We get that they are good at playing, we don't need to see 2 minutes of that.

The surprise of Liu Bei returning to help Zhou Yu was a cool moment, as was the gathering of the arrows. I'm not sure that you could refer to John Woo's directing style as being timeless. There's a reason why he's fallen out of favor with Hollywood. He was really hot in the 90's when people were going crazy for slow motion gun fights. Now people want hard cuts, Bourne Identity type of action. I'm not saying that I even like that style. I feel that where Red Cliff falls short is in the script. In Gladiator, some of the great scenes outside of the Coliseum come from when the senators debate publicly. The female roles in the film were pretty uninteresting and the idea of a princess going undercover in Cao Cao's army is completely ridiculous. They could have at least taken the makeup off her face and cut her hair to show that she tried to look like a guy.

Ang Lee would've made Red Cliff an Oscar-worthy classic. John Woo made a film that is stylistically all over the place, and while it has its moments, will be dismissed by many as having a weak script and poor editing.

[–] infiniti 14 years ago

So should I just watch the 1 US version, which is Part 1 and Part 2 cut down to one film at 148 min?

[–] neimand 14 years ago

Just watch Part one.I saw it last week and enjoyed it so much that I watched part
two.Part 2 was part one with bits and pieces from the editing sliced into it.
Very disappointing.Don't bother with Part 2.You'll be bored.

[–] garfield-max 14 years ago

I didnt like part1 because of the super cheesy super hero fighting scenes . I think there was still over top stylization in part 2 as well, but overall quality was better .More action, more clever with some surprising turns (as much as those kind of movies could be surprising). Overall imho good movie worth watching, but not classic