THE ARROGANCE OF HOLLYWOOD - The Beaver (2011) Discussion

[–] 13 years ago

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A regular guy with regular people problems doesn't equal antisemite and misogany. Unless you think thats regular. They want extras to act professionally and not be star struck while on set. Its the actors business to do their jobs same so for extras. And standing in the background is expendable they could find anyone to do that.

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[–] freq32 13 years ago

i'll have to agree with this.. you're looking at it all wrong. life's what you make it, don't hate. be professional and that's it. They don't want the extras distracting the actors.

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[–] jasongibbonsxxx 13 years ago

Exactly!

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[–] chicago85 13 years ago

Is it okay if extras have a script they wrote but no one will touch? But they could get it filmed if they can lay their hands on several hundrred thousand dollars or the star agrees to appear in it.

Don't bother them on the set. Show up at their house at midnight instead.

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[–] k3kx 13 years ago

This is really good advice.

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[–] ElvisETA 13 years ago

But it's okay to make fun of Asians, right?

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[–] tawdry_hepburn 13 years ago

It's their own fault! They shoulda thought of that before they decided to biologically adapt to have a slightly different shape in their eyes!

,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams

www.myspace.com/ohhorrorofhorrors

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] toocool00_au 12 years ago

Hollywood is controlled by a alot of rich, powerful and jewish people. Metro Goldwyn Meyer ring any bells?

I don't care what Mel Gibson said because he either felt there was a problem and decided to say somthing and look what happend? Now's black listed in a country known being the land of the free home of the brave but free speach is a load of BS?

Stick it too'em Mel.

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[–] burfordthehalfabee 12 years ago

Free speech is only worth defending in a society where people are going to use it intelligently and respectfully.

Oh and by the way it's spelled 'speech'.

Like I said... intelligently.

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[–] Edohiguma 10 years ago

And if someone doesn't conform to your definition of intelligent and respectful speech, then no free speech for him.

Sounds a bit fascist to me.

Free speech is all speech. It can be intelligent, it can be dumb. It can be offending. It can be respectful. Besides, who decides what is offending and what is respectful? You?

Sod off.

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[–] willjohn 8 years ago

Gibson is rich enough to produce his own films. Perhaps in the last 5 years you have realised that.

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[–] NoIMNotIT 13 years ago

Come on. If someone accomplished something that he is proud of and a particular group of people began to hate him for it big time and he got drunk and was later pulled over by a cop who belonged to that group of people who hated him, I really wouldn't be surprised if he said something against that group. The truth is, even if Mel wasn't caught making antisemitic remarks, many Jews would still think he's antisemitic for making The Passion in the first place because many Jews actually do think that movie is antisemitic even though it clearly isn't.

And as for Mel being misogynistic, I don't think he is in my definition. I guess to some people, calling a particular woman a whore or a bitch means you hate women in general. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people calling Mel misogynistic are people who think Mel is antisemitic and is looking for more reasons to hate him.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] tawdry_hepburn 13 years ago

What a lovely, Christian worldview you have there. What was that one verse about the throwing stones? Ah, probably wasn't important.

Also, Jesus died a Jew. Never formed a church, bro.

Edit: Oh, I remember now. It was, "Judge not, lest yea be a Jew." Right?

,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams

www.myspace.com/ohhorrorofhorrors

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[–] FilmFan777 13 years ago

Wow, you have no clue on a lot of things in what your writing. Israel let's the Palestinians be a part of Israel and they're society. Let's them vote, work, live, travel within and back and forth, be a part of they're society. They share the temple with them. Even gave them a piece of 'their' land when it doesn't belong to them and, when no other country around will let them have a piece of theirs which is 'far' larger than Israel. Yet the Palestinians are the one's killing Jewish children on buses, slitting they're throats, lobbing bombs at them and the Jews retaliate accordingly. In fact, 'far less' than they could. They could kick them out of there, even destroy them all in a day, yet they don't. They put up and endure... far more than I would.

Go to Israel, see the society they have there, find out for yourself the true history and what's going on. In other words, educate yourself.

And you don't believe being anti Semitic is a bad thing these days? So being a racist is not bad huh?

Nothing personal, yet your ignorant to facts and I feel for you in that regard.

Every race has good and bad in it. I don't believe there is one race on earth that 'every' person is bad and should be labeled as a whole.

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[–] Moogle80 13 years ago

@FilmFan777

Not wanting to get into a political discussion here, but Israel is not as 'sharing' or innocent as you're implying it is, even if you leave ultra-Zionists out of the equation. The 'see the society they have there' feels strange because, as I experienced it, there isn't 'a' society. Travel the country and you'll meet all kinds of 'societies'. Having travelled through Egypt, Israel, Jordan and Syria I find myself not considering Israel 'the victim' as much as I initially did. Also, despite international pressure they refuse to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty or Ottawa Treaty, things that don't do them any favours.

As many have said before, there are plenty of other examples of actors having messed up, Gibson is not the only one and probably not even the worst. Regardless, I will probably go and see the film. The trailer seemed interesting enough and from what I've read, Gibson pulls off a memorable performance.

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[–] Tess-tastic 13 years ago

And you don't believe being anti Semitic is a bad thing these days? So being a racist is not bad huh?

I am neither, but you need to make a distinction here. Being antisemitic is not the same as being racist. Judaism is a religion, not a race. I'd be interested to see what your view is about Islam. Are you antimuslim? Because if so, what's the difference between being antimuslim and antisemitic? None.

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[–] FilmFan777 13 years ago

Really, not the same?

Here's the clarification tess-26... Both are hating someone solely for being in a group. Weather grouped by race or grouped by a belief, it's based on that and not them as an individual. Clear enough?

Am I anti Muslim? Interesting you'd throw that out.
Absolutely not. In fact my former's family live in Kuwait and are strict Muslims and though they hated the fact I was 'Not' Muslim, I still had them stay in my home, each summer for several years. I went to great lengths to accommodated to their beliefs at they're request. Yet when it came to mine, they'd have NONE of it. I've much experience, (more than mentioned) with hard lined Muslim believers and I can say through that experience, they don't believe in equality, anyone or anything that is Not in they're belief. And that's putting it nicely.

I'm anti toward the one's who use Islam to kill others, who use anything other than self defense to kill others.

Sorry, I'm not as narrow minded as for some reason you may have thought.

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[–] Tess-tastic 13 years ago

I didn't say you were narrow-minded. The quote I used from your post was

"And you don't believe being anti Semitic is a bad thing these days? So being a racist is not bad huh?"

The way that reads to me is that you believe if you are anti-Semitic, you're also a racist, which is not necessarily true. That was all I was pointing out.

Your experience with Muslims was interesting. But again, we're talking religious bigotry rather than racism.

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[–] FilmFan777 13 years ago

Wow... semantics.

"I didn't say you were narrow-minded."

And I did not say you said that.
I said: "Sorry, I'm not as narrow minded as for some reason you may have thought."

"May" have thought. By your post to mine, it could easily been interpreted you were thinking I was being narrow minded.

You wrote: "The way that reads to me is that you believe if you are anti-Semitic, you're also a racist, which is not necessarily true. That was all I was pointing out."

Well maybe you should have read it better because it was a 'Comparison' clearly.

"Your experience with Muslims was interesting. But again, we're talking religious bigotry rather than racism."

YOU may have been talking about that. 'I' was talking about exactly what, I was talking about.

All the parsing, geez. We done here now? I am.

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[–] HoEkSNZ 12 years ago

Who really gives a *beep*. Why can't we all just get along? Is the big question

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[–] rwlivings 13 years ago

I hate it when these film threads tread into religious territory.

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[–] FilmFan777 13 years ago

So to you, would telling the story of American slavery be anti American?

Schindler's List anti Nazi?

Passion of the Christ was telling the story of the crucifixion of Jesus. What, was Mel supposed to change it and make it, let's say the Persians who did it?

The Jews where the one's who demanded the ruling Roman's crucify Jesus. You don't alter history when telling the story of it.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] bsu_oak530 13 years ago

"I saw that movie. It clearly was anti-semitic."

Hahahaha! You morons crack me up. None of you have a CLUE, what you are talking about. If this movie is anti-semitic.....so is the damn book it was taken from....THE BIBLE.

The Jews were not the bad people in this film, seeing as how all the people watching were Jews, it was the Jewish leaders, the Pharisees, they were the ones portrayed poorly...as they are in the Bible....so Gibson really didn't do anything that hasn't already been done.

To me I think the Romans should be complaining...any Romans in the house? The Passion of the Christ makes the Jewish Pharisees look like saints compared to the Romans. If you want to call this film anything....call it.....anti-Romanic.

That's like saying the movie A Clockwork Orange is disturbing and offensive....but the book is perfectly fine......clearly if the book is offensive and controversial to some people....the movie adaptation will be too...did people really think the Jews would be replaced with Muslims, or with Russians to make it less offensive? Mel's movie didn't do anything the Bible didn't already say.

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[–] cadellpost 12 years ago

No it wasn't (see my other post for my definition of anti-semitic). I could never be anti-semitic for two reasons

a) my christian and therefore to quite some extent jewish faith leads me to believe that every person is made in the image and likeness of God.

b) I've always blamed the Romans for the death of Christ, and that means everyone is guilty of original sin. Just as, being a "Roman" Catholic, I believe that I killed Christ by my own sins, (in other words Christian (and Jewish?) maturity means realising that ultimately my own responsibilities and shortcomings, not those of others, is where it is at), so also I've always understood that Jesus was Jewish. So I accept in a very real way that to be Jewish is the noblest of origins. On the other hand, even a Jewish person is ashes to ashes and dust to dust. In other words we all find our value out of our origin, from the One who is I am that I am.

c) Sorry about adding c), but I also had to add that I have all sorts of labels for who I am, but I have a far greater sense of my value (in God) than any of these labels permit. To be anti-semitic is to be a very shallow person. To be angry is to be human, but I only show my human dignity when able to (perhaps with great difficulty) process it with intelligence and realise that the right response to any type of racial injustice, is the peaceful but determined realisation that God made me, is with me, makes me good, and will stay with me forever through all types of trial and tribulation. Even when we don't value ourselves, God values us even much more than the best parent ever could.

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[–] tawdry_hepburn 13 years ago

If by, "clearly isn't" you mean, "Is based on a version of the Passion Play that the Catholic Church has publicly distanced itself from specifically because even they view it as Anti-Semitic," or "Was cast in a way specifically designed to highlight stereotyped appearances," Then yes, I completely agree.

,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams

www.myspace.com/ohhorrorofhorrors

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[–] basketball-bub 13 years ago

Thank you! If I was held accountable for all the things I said when I was drunk, I would be one very sad person. Another thing, everyone has skeletons in the closet, but a particular group of people seem to be very much dedicated to constantly reminding us of Mel's problems.

Also I dont understand that misogynist thing. He was married to the same woman for 30 years, treated her with respect, didnt event try to contest her getting half the assets from the marriage and has never once said a bad thing about her. Now to me, that says he respects women more than these celebrities who chop and change ever 5 years on a newer, younger model.

And I am a woman, and I have called many women "bitches." Its a legitimate reaction to someone pissing you off! It doenst mean I hate other women.

Since when have we expected Mel to be a superman with no faults? The unfairness of it drives me crazy...

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[–] piggoli-imdb 10 years ago

>>And as for Mel being misogynistic, I don't think he is in my definition. I guess to some people, calling a particular woman a whore or a bitch means you hate women in general. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people calling Mel misogynistic are people who think Mel is antisemitic and is looking for more reasons to hate him.

some people = feminists

They are deranged people anyway, looking for ways to justify their own misandry

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[–] jakkfrost 8 years ago

A regular guy with regular people problems doesn't equal antisemite and misogany.

What a regular person does when they get pushed into a rage is dredge up the meanest things they can think of to say. That doesn't mean those are their actual opinions. And the meanest things they can think of to say are often things their parents said as they were growing up.

For someone at Mel's age, racism and misogyny were far more acceptable when he was growing up, and even moreso when his parents were growing up. Hell, MY parents had racist attitudes, so I was exposed to them growing, and as opposed to racism as I am, I couldn't honestly say what might come out of my mouth if I were to go into a rage.

A man never truly knows what happiness is until he gets married... and by then it's too late.

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[–] cjbrett22 13 years ago

but so are the extras, right?

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[–] Simulpec 13 years ago

What do you guys think that A-list actors actually read these and that is why you are sucking up to them?? Of course extras, like anyone else should be expected to act professionally but the OP is absolutely right; to tell them that they will be fired for even talking to the actors betrays a high degree of elitism and arrogance. I am sure the extras know that there are boundaries and that those boundaries need to be respected. But to treat them like property and threaten to fire them for even so much as simply saying hello can only be called arrogant and elitist. It might be part of the business. It might come with the territory. But it doesn't make it any less arrogant or elitist. Why not call it what it is?? It's not gonna make any difference in your life. Your never gonna get a phone-call from George Clooney or Jodie Foster thanking you for recognizing the need to keep those dirty extras away from them.

And I got news for you. It is not a right to work without being bothered. And it's certainly not a right to be treated like you're better than anyone. The pampering that these celebrities receive is a privilege that they should be on their knees thanking God for every night. And it's a privilege that most of them will lose at some point in their lives. The fact that they would consider even saying hello to a lowly extra to be a nuisance just shows that most of them are completely self-absorbed.

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[–] harmedandderangerous 13 years ago

Like all of us, when they're getting paid they kind of are property. Sucks but it's true.

"When something's true, you know it the first time you hear it."

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[–] Adept34501 13 years ago

And just exactly why should extras get my sympathy, because some nobody can't get his quality time with Matt and Ben.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] alerasoul 13 years ago

To add to your already-fantastic post, I'd just like to say that Mel is an example of a person whose life is spotlighted. There are millions upon millions of other men who're in the same place he is, but no one cares about them because they aren't movie stars or political figures. They're just regular guys with problems.

Now here we have Mel: just like other guys. He screws up a few times; big deal. Who hasn't? The only reason he's regarded so negatively by many is because they read it in the papers. If his personal life was untouched by the media, his phone'd be ringing off the hook with movie job offers by countless directors and producers.

-------------
"Rescue the damsel in distress; kill the bad guy; save the world."
--Rick O'Connell

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[–] king_maker_1428 13 years ago

A regular guy with regular people problems doesn't equal antisemite and misogany. Unless you think thats regular. They want extras to act professionally and not be star struck while on set. Its the actors business to do their jobs same so for extras. And standing in the background is expendable they could find anyone to do that.

I think this is the most intelligent post I've seen on this forum to date.

Bravo!

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[–] Kurtz_jungle 13 years ago

antisemitism and misogamy is pretty common where I live. Rich and famous antisemite, misogamists, not so many.

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[–] josephinemuscat 13 years ago

Dear God don't encourage him...

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] nystulc 13 years ago

> I'll just say that many of them are an amazingly arrogant bunch. During
> filming extras are told that they're fired if they so much as say HI to an
> actor.

This has nothing to do with arrogance. The studio is paying the star a lot of money for a performance. The star is there to get work done, not to give out autographs to a bunch of star-struck extras. The studio is also paying the extras, and gets to dictate the conditions of their employment, so the rule is - don't distract the star, or compete for his attention.

If it did not tend to become a problem, then no-one would have made a rule.

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[–] SolaufeinSA 13 years ago

yeah except they don't say "don't distract the star while he's working" they say "If you so much as say HI you're fired!"
See the difference?

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[–] life_is_like_water 13 years ago

The only difference I see is in semantics. What does "do not distract" mean to you? To many actors, it probably means "don't come up to me and say hello when I'm working hard to stay in character." I honestly don't see why you're so upset about it. Plus, those are the standards for working on a set of a big film. If you don't like the rules, then don't go looking for parts in films as an extra. Easy as that.

I'm perfectly fine knowing that this is how movie sets are run.

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[–] bsu_oak530 13 years ago

"To many actors, it probably means "don't come up to me and say hello when I'm working hard to stay in character." I honestly don't see why you're so upset about it."

I agree that if an actor is clearly trying to stay in character and doing some sort of rehearsal, trying to stay in character, the last thing you should do is go up to the actor and say "hey Mr. Pacino, I loved you in Scarface! Can you tell me what it was like to be in it?" lol.....but, if the actor is clearly talking to other people and not rehearsing or happens to walk by you and looks at you....saying hello is not a crime and should be allowed...many actors actually don't mind talking to the crew, its the agents and ass kissers who tell the extras to stay away.

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[–] nystulc 13 years ago

> yeah except they don't say "don't distract the star while he's working" they
> say "If you so much as say HI you're fired!"
> See the difference?

No I don't. An extra's job, onscreen, is to act as though he does not know, and is not interested in, the actor. I see no need for the extra to behave any differently offscreen, while on the job. Does an extra have some need to build rapport with an actor? Of course not.

If you are an extra, then you do not know the actor, and the actor does not know you. That is your job. That is the part you are playing. Stay in character, obey the rules, and don't whine about it.

Like I said, if it did not tend to become a problem, they would not have made a rule.

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[–] Mazzy_Star56 13 years ago

Actors are SO bloody precious. A person so much as gives them a friendly greeting while they work and they bitch and whine to their security. They're professionals, yes. But part of being a professional is dealing with distractions in a courteous and reasonable manner. Like any *beep* job.

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[–] lukn4frnz 13 years ago

> yeah except they don't say "don't distract the star while he's working" they
> say "If you so much as say HI you're fired!"
> See the difference?

I think it's great when an employer is very very clear about someone's job responsibilities. No extra should have to be told not to distract the star, if somebody's that clueless or star struck they shouldn't be on the set. Wouldn't you agree with what I've posted so far?

You don't like the tone the job instruction is given in, well, that's true for probably the majority of workers in any type of job. I'm guessing that it's in the minority that that instruction is worded that way, who knows, perhaps it was a large problem on the last few sets of the person giving the instructions, and they were tired of the cluelessness of some extras and so just laid it on the line.

If you're the star at some ballet, or opera - you're 'on' for maybe 2 hours that day. Movie stars can be on for 8, 12+ hours that day, despite getting a lot of time in their personal fancy trailer, they can be called without much notice to the set. That ballet or opera star, everybody knows you don't interfere one bit with their concentration, they need to get centered so they can blow away the patrons.

I think you just didn't like how the instructions were given, and unlike the rest of the extras, you're too skinned to let it go.

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[–] nitestar95 8 years ago

The problem is, that there are so many people who want to interact with the stars of the show. You get 200 people working there,and every one of them wants to say, 'Hi! I really loved you in [whatever] and I'm glad you're doing this show!' and you've got your day completely taken up by fans 'just wanting to say hello'.

Everyone wants to talk to the star. So, NOBODY gets to talk to the star.

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[–] bsu_oak530 13 years ago

"This has nothing to do with arrogance. The studio is paying the star a lot of money for a performance. The star is there to get work done, not to give out autographs to a bunch of star-struck extras."

What part of saying "hello" resembles asking for an autograph??? I don't get it. If the damn actor walks by, you can say "hello." I don't care if I was fired....if I couldn't say hello to another HUMAN BEING then it is not even worth it to be in the business at all. Sure Al Pacino is an amazing actor, Robert De Niro, Daniel Day Lewis, Meryl Streep, these are all great actors.....but they are still people, just like the extras.

What is wrong with saying hi when the actor passes by you to get some water? How is that distracting them from their work? Are you not supposed to say anything to anyone when they are working? So when someone is working at McDonald's you can't say hi to them cuz it might distract them from flipping burgers? You can't say hi to an actor because they might all of a sudden forget how to act?

It's bull sh!t, and most of the actors don't feel that way at all, the kinds of people who say don't talk to the actors, are the agents....the ass kissers of the actors.....don't listen to them. Say hi to the actors, just don't go crazy about them and ask for all kinds of favors.

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[–] rtodd110 13 years ago

Gibson is a great actor and a great director one of my favorites

as far as his personal life goes its none of my damn business ive done things and said things i probably shouldnt
thank god i dont have the *beep* media on my back cause it would be bad we all do things that arent accepted by others passing judgement is a double sided blade
and to think u have a right to is ridiculous
ill be the first to say i try not to judge but i do it anyway no one 's perfect and everyone has to deal with their own issues if they range from an addiction to abuse...

but i guess having ur life revealed to the public comes with fame so if you cant handle then *beep* off

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[–] druss44121-1 13 years ago

My God, an actor saying he doesn't agree with everything someone does but that doesn't mean they should be completely vilified?

NONSENSE I SAY! Much better to either damn people completely, or praise them even for their greatest sins!

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[–] JacquesStrappe 13 years ago

As has been mentioned, actors get paid big dollars for their roles. It is akin to professional athletes while they are playing the game. You don't want the stick boy or ball boy hounding players during the game for autographs and such. The same thing applies for actors. For long periods of time, they try to remain in character and, for lack of a better term, "in the zone" for their designated role, and breaking their concentration with foolishness can cause delays.

Yes, extras are actors too, but rather than being starstruck they should concentrate on doing the best they can in their designated role, like the top stars do. I feel sorry for people like Eastwood. Given his iconic status as an actor, he often directs and produces his pictures. That's a lot on anyone's plate without the bother of starstruck extras wanting face to face time. Sorry to say this, but the OP's post almost has a "sour grapes" flavour to it.

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