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This Was Made By Folks From A Place Called The Internet


As another user said earlier, this seems like a hoax. It is. It was made "ironically" by the kind of guys who show up on "Funny Or Die" who thought they could get some lulz out of it. They saw The Room and said "we could do that! And a bunch of suckers will create a cult following that we can milk! Everyone will wonder whether we're 'serious' or not! Those stupid suckers..." It really bothers me that a lame joke with this little effort behind it is getting so much press and a free ride. Even if a large part of that free ride is coming from Tim & Eric, the kings of the ironic so-unfunny-it's-funny shtick.

"The Room" actually tried which is what makes it so funny. Throw that in your Netflix instead.

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Read up on the history of this film and you'll find that you're completely wrong.

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It's fair to say one should make sure all his facts are in line before making a claim like this, so I made sure to do so before posting. You're absolutely right that I can't be sure, but I'm still reasonably certain. I read up a lot more than I should have on something so patently silly.

In the articles I read, especially the NY Times one, James Nguyen seems extremely self-aware. When he crashed the Sundance film festival in a car covered in feathers with the title of the film misspelled, it reeked of a publicity stunt. Also, the tagline "Why Did The Eagles Attacked?" sounds too much like a Lolcats caption. He's not in any way language deficient or deluded in some interviews, yet in others he plays this up for seemingly comic effect. The cast, like Whitney Moore who got what she wanted in the form of a gig at Victoria's Secret, is extremely intelligent and admits to being constantly aware of exactly what they were making.

I also saw the film after hearing only a little buzz. I'm a huge MST/film failure junkie. In the first five minutes, with the broken record sound track looping over 5 minutes of someone driving, I thought it was self-conscious in its awfulness. I've always thought of these as "Paradox Jokes". The joke is that the scene is taking too long to go nowhere and set to gratingly awful music, but the very nature of the joke makes it too irritating to sit through. This continues in the scenes immediately following like in the diner. The audio keeps cutting in and out, some audio layers too soft and the others too loud. And then on and on.

Finally, the endorsement from Tim & Eric who are known for this sort of "meta-humor" is fishy. Eric had this to say at the L.A. premiere: "What they really care about,” Mr. Wareheim said, “is that they’re going to be recognized and people are going to watch it, and people are going to talk about it, even if it’s bashing them. They’re just happy to eat the meal that was provided to them.”

Hence my accusation of a self-aware, prepackaged "The Room" knockoff.

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And 'The Room' WASN'T self-aware? In my opinion, the whole movie reeked of a winking irony that made it impossible for me - another self-proclaimed MST/film failure junkie - to accept as "unintentionally bad": the blatantly recycled sex scene footage, the football in the alleyway...I just feel the audience is playing directly into Tommy Wiseau's hands (and believe me, I worked at *Troma* for a while, I can tell the difference between unintentionally and intentionally bad). 'Birdemic', on the other hand? I *will* come to its defense. This is my side of the issue:

I think it's all a matter of perspective here. Obviously there's cynicism surrounding the ironic trailers made by Severin Films and the (loose) connections with Tim & Eric - who, might I add, HEAVILY endorsed 'The Room', much more so than 'Birdemic' -, which all came more than two years after the film had been finished. Nguyen IS currently capitalizing on the "bad" aspect of 'Birdemic' - and who could blame him? - but I sincerely doubt that it was his intention to make the film as such. I was there from day one when he was at Sundance '09; I actually worked alongside the people who later got 'Birdemic' picked up and distributed by Severin Films, people I knew well and who had no previous knowledge of the film. His freakish van was a publicity stunt, yes, but have you ever been to Park City during the festivals? It's quite common to see a small number of decorated cars promoting a wacky movie, or for gangs of self-promoters wandering the streets in costumes, waving posters of their movie around at pedestrians and handing out flyers (myself having been in the latter). Sundance has a pretty fascist reign over advertising in Park City; they've got paid employees who go around stapling posters for their multi-million dollar "indie" movies over the flyers of anyone else: Slamdance, Tromadance, or fringe movies like 'Birdemic'. A filmmaker has to do all they can to get the word out about their movie, and 'Birdemic' was nothing out of the "ordinarily unordinary". I saw weirder stuff at Sundance '08. I never actually spoke with Mr. Nguyen, so I really can't comment on whether or not he plays up certain aspects of his personality like you claim.

James Nguyen, by himself, always seemed to promote the film very earnestly, and the interviews and video of the original premieres prior to Sundance seem to support that. When *I* saw it a few weeks after Sundance, there was no set-up, no buzz, no expectations...only that a fellow Troma employee had seen it, told me it was amazingly bad and sent me a copy. Now, when I worked at Troma, one of my duties was screening films that had been sent to us by amateur filmmakers in hopes of distribution....you can only imagine the quality of some of them, especially since they were all made specifically for the Troma demographic. What you call "jokes", such as scenes that go nowhere forever, consistently failing audio, etc, is stuff I've seen more times than any human really should see on unlabeled DVD-Rs. It's impossible for me to recognize 'Birdemic' as anything other than genuine incompetence: that's REAL amateur camera work. That's REAL bad acting (no "you're tearing me a PART, Lisa" here). That's REAL amateur editing. The ONLY thing I was skeptical about were the birds themselves. I found it a bit hard to believe that that CGI was the best they could do (in terms of the way the birds move, not so much how they look)...I may never know what the story behind that is, though, having also seen James Nguyen's 'Julie and Jack' not long afterwards, it's hard for me to believe he's even remotely capable of such audience manipulating tactics like you claim...the guy's simply a bad filmmaker who's WAY enamored with Hitchcock. The way I see it, he tried to make 'The Birds', failed, and now is just running with the very first instance of success he's found with his movies.

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The Room definitely was not self-aware. Just watch any interview of Tommy Wiseau... there are even rehearsal videos of him on Youtube. He honestly tried to make what he thought was a good movie, and it was unintentionally hilarious. He doesn't even say "it is a black comedy," he says "it became a black comedy."

Watching Birdemic, I felt that there clearly wasn't much effort put into it. The audio problems alone are so bad that it seems they were either intentional or ignored.

Then again, I would never consider myself an expert at determining this type of thing, so take my opinion as exactly that, and with a grain of salt.

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'The Room' was made for $7,000,000 with a professional Los Angeles film crew amassing over 400 people. 'Birdemic' was shot for $10,000 with barely a fraction of that number of crew, comprised entirely of James Nguyen and/or first-timers/amateurs. It's unfair to compare the two from a technical standpoint. I've seen many, many feature-length movies filmed on a budget less than the price of a new car, and trust me, trying to make a decent-looking picture on a budget like that of 'Birdemic' is no picnic in the park, especially if they involve special effects...heck, even at $750,000 it'd be tough to make anything that looks as good as 'The Room' does, and I fully realize the irony of that statement. ;)

There are many different classes of bad movies, and each of those classes are viewed differently by both the mainstream/general public and those who are connoisseurs of "low-quality cinema". 'The Room', with its high production quality, is an easily digestible product even by people who don't regularly watch B-movies. The majority of the population have never seen anything on par with the quality of 'Birdemic', which is why its easy for someone like yourself - and by that, I mean someone who admits they're not a bad movie fan - to point an accusing finger at the filmmaker's intentions, or to make an immediate (yet unjust) comparison to 'The Room', as if it were the *only* bad movie or the epitome of such.

I, on the other hand, do vehemently defend 'Birdemic', because I come from a background well-versed in awful movies where I've seen many films similar to 'Birdemic', but I find it to be an IMMENSELY enjoyable entry in the pantheon of cinematic incompetence; it's not the *worst* movie I've seen, nor is it the "best worst" movie, but it's one of the more consistently entertaining bad flicks I've come across in recent memory (most of the time, films on par with 'Birdemic''s quality are just *boring*. Just watch James Nguyen's other films.). Let me reiterate: this is from MY standpoint. 'Birdemic' doesn't have an ounce of mainstream appeal, and I think it's best kept that way...it will never eclipse the success of 'The Room' because its just too damn....well, it's just too damn *bad*. This is a film that's best kept and appreciated by people like myself, who delight in watching 'MST3k' films WITHOUT the 'MST3k' commentary, or attempt to watch every film in the Troma library (even 'Video Demons Do Psychotown'), because its only going to be held in suspicion by everyone else, simply because they don't understand it and have nothing even remotely similar to compare it to.

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'Birdemic' was shot for $10,000 with barely a fraction of that number of crew, comprised entirely of James Nguyen and/or first-timers/amateurs.


'Primer' was shot for $7,000 with an even smaller crew. And it looks WAY better than either movie. Granted, that's extremely difficult to achieve...

My beef with 'Birdemic' is that I feel the movie IS boring, at least the last third of it. The audio is so terrible that it's painfully loud sometimes and ridiculously quiet other times, and the bird scenes are just grating. I find it hard to believe that the audio levels couldn't have been normalized during editing, or that the sound effects couldn't have been turned down a bit since they constantly bounce off the peak. I find such basic things hard to chalk up to ineptitude; it seems to me like it would be either a lack of caring or a purposeful attempt at making the movie bad. It's as if someone didn't even bother listening to the final product after putting it together.

I enjoy driving a joke into the ground, especially unfunny ones; at a certain point, it's so unfunny that it becomes funny. But when that joke is rapid firing at 130 db, I just can't take it.

I do think a good portion of the movie is some of the funniest stuff I've ever seen. But from all the bad movies I've seen (which I'm sure is a LOT less than what you've seen), I just can't believe something with these problems wasn't intentional.

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I can't dictate to you how you should feel about the movie, nor am I trying to pass myself off as any type of "authority" on bad movies, so don't believe that's what I'm trying to do. ;-)

However, unlike 'The Room', 'Birdemic' wasn't filmed behind the intention of theatrical distribution and/or attention from mainstream media; for the type of movie 'Birdemic' is, a lot of people seem to be holding it up to very high standards, even by low standards (if that makes any sense). I've seen many flicks in 'Birdemic''s budget range: sometimes the sound is crisp and clear, other times its terrible. When I was working acquisitions at Troma, twice I came across films whose dialogue was rendered completely inaudible by background noise, be it from low-quality sound equipment or using the camera's microphone....and that WASN'T a joke, which just made it all the more depressing. Likewise, I've seen films whose poor lighting made scenes totally unwatchable. It doesn't necessarily mean the filmmakers' intentions aren't pure or that they don't care (though sometimes the latter is true when Scooter and his cousin are filming "Lesbian Vampire Apocalypse 7" in their backyard), it's often the result of simple inexperience, or poor planning and budgetary limits. I honestly believe 'Birdemic' is a product of those factors, exactly like James Nguyen's previous film 'Julie & Jack', which had similarly atrocious sound (not as bad as 'Birdemic''s, but then again, it didn't have constant gunfire and eagle squawks) and equally bad editing, pacing and acting. And yes, it was *boring*. The horror/bird aspect of 'Birdemic' is definitely what gives the film its notoriety and entertainment value, but its also what makes it easier for the cynical to accuse it of "fraud"....seeing James Nguyen's previous films, however, really puts it all into perspective in a way. Nobody can say James Nguyen tried to intentionally make an uncharacteristically bad film with 'Birdemic' when his other films were essentially the same exact thing...only without the birds, of course.

Prior to coming to the IMDb board, back when 'Birdemic' was just passed around in the bad film underground, I had never heard anyone consider the sound quality to be a "joke" or intentional...as I stated previously, I think its the public's unfamiliarity with this level of low-low-low-low-budget filmmaking and the emergence of 'Tim & Eric'-style "meta-humor" that's the source of such cynicism that I've - only recently - seen being thrown at the film, and almost all of it is generated from the hype the distributors are giving it. That's another reason why it'll never eclipse 'The Room'; 'The Room' gradually built its following as a bad movie, it didn't try to start one before it even played in theaters....what I'm trying to get across is that its not the fault of the film itself. 'Birdemic' should be taken entirely at face value.

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Like I said, I would never assert the film being made this way intentionally as fact. And you're right, Tim & Eric have made me skeptical and a little cynical when it comes to the excruciatingly inept. But I still remain skeptical in regard to Birdemic even after the really good points you made.

I can't approach having worked for Troma as a badge of honor as a bad film junkie, but I've been into MST3K since I was 9 and gobble up spectacular film failure whenever I can. I'm always telling people that give garbage like "Made of Honor" a 0 out of 10 or even 100 that it could be much, MUCH worse. It at least had the most salient elements of film; the lighting, blocking, editing, etc. were all at least competent. This merits at least a 20 out of a 100 as a baseline. Some MST classics like "The Creeping Terror" are missing even these salient elements let alone a coherent plot or decent acting. However, these elements can be done exceedingly well in 2010 from home in the latest Adobe Master Suite. Better films shot for quite literally NOTHING, forget the $10,000, that pop up on Youtube look and sound infinitely better than this trash.

J.J. Abrams spoke at TED about the amazing things he's seeing people put together from home on their computers that can compete with the effects he pays millions to produce. Adobe has leveled the playing field, virtually making it a conscious decision to leave your "film" in the same shoddy shape as Birdemic.

And why do "free" films all over the internet that deserve people's attention, films and filmmakers that produce stuff that isn't unbearable to sit through yet share the same camp sensibilities, go totally ignored while Birdemic happened to be publicized by "Bloody Disgusting" and two clowns who puke on each other? It's now spreading like wild fire with a built-in hipster fan-base fresh from shouting "oh, hallo Mark!" at a midnight screening of The Room which just isn't fair. I suppose that's why I will continue to hold such animus toward Birdemic, if I can even remember what it is in a week.

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There are short films that put TWICE as much effort with LESS money than Birdemic, Even short films have better production value than this movie look up 'Losses' and 'Yo Soy Hombre Un Loco'

Abe Simpson:Case closed, where's my hat I'm going to the out house!

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I really enjoy the thoughts and insights of you guys!

Being an avid viewer of so-called bad films (and a defender of MANOS as a not-bad-at-all-movie) I would like to add my thoughts after watching BIRDEMIC for the first time.

I think you can tell a self-aware trash film by the kind of faults it shows.

There is the kind of director who overlooks certain things with blind self-confidence, simply because he has other things on his mind. So if a guy thinks he has great story to tell, he might not be very critical about his optics, while an FX buff might not care about his story and continuity because he only cares about his impressive gimmicks.

Then there is the kind of director who is totally unaware of what he does, because he is experimenting while he is making his film. Most real amateur productions will probably fall into this category.

And finally there are the guys who go for it and try to create trash. This has come up mainly with the cult following of "bad films", and I think that you won't find any examples of this before the advent of home movie technology and postmodern tendencies in mainstream audiences.

What makes THE ROOM feel honest is mainly the fact that there has never been an audience for non-genre trash.
With a monster film you can always expect to find some viewers who will appreciate rubber suits and screaming bikini girls.
With a drama you could never have expected that.

Furthermore the different aspects that make THE ROOM so unique don't aim for one target audience. I have experienced that different people laugh at different things in that film, and some find it completely boring.
So I think its appeal is too fragile to be calculated in advance.

With BIRDEMIC I felt like watching a truly naive piece of film until the bird scenes began.
The discrepancy between their neat design and their silly action is too visible to be due to chance or accident.
I believe that the idea for such a film would start with a vision of the birds attacking - and it would never look like that!
Even the actors would more likely be overacting, while in this film they are obviously holding back.

Compared with similar scenes in say John Dohler movies or more recent films like SUBURBAN SASQUATCH the bird attacks here are designed to disappoint.

And then I started noticing it more and more...

As I said before:
You can tell the self-awareness by the kind of faults it shows.

The often quoted skips in the soundtrack would have been very, very easy to prevent in post-production - and any director or editor would have done at least that.
To me there is no doubt that they have been left in deliberately.

Listen to a film like THE GHASTLY ONES where the complete sound is messed up to find an example of genuine I-wasn't-aware-or-did-not-care.

My final impression is that maybe... just maybe... BIRDEMIC might have started as a naive film project, but in the end somebody has decided to try very hard to stress the shortcomings instead of simply erasing them.
More likely everybody knew what they were doing and did a good job at pretending not to.

So all in all BIRDEMIC is a sympathetic and watchable piece of postmodern entertainment.
But it has no naive magic!

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Have you seen James Nguyen's previous motion picture, 'Julie & Jack'? It's pretty much the first half of 'Birdemic' stretched over 90 minutes, and it's riddled with similar technical issues. 'Birdemic''s bird effects, however, are ludicrous enough that I do often question their authenticity, but coupled with the stoic seriousness of James Nguyen, I can't be sure. However, I am strongly of the belief that 'Birdemic''s intent was pure, and have been since I first saw it at Sundance '09.

The incompetence level of something like 'Birdemic' is hard for a lot of people to grasp because they don't have any basis for comparison. Movies like 'Birdemic' are made all the time, all over the world, and 99% of them never see distribution, let alone get 'Birdemic''s level of exposure. Films like 'The Room' and 'Troll 2', for all their faults, are obviously well-made: the creative aspect is totally insane, but they LOOK like actual movies, which is easier for a mass audience to swallow. But for something like 'Birdemic' or 'After Last Season', the production value is so implausibly low that, for someone who doesn't predominantly watch or work on low-budget films, they're likely going to call shenanigans. Ours is a cynical generation, 'tis.

I somewhat have a basis for comparison, because a few years ago I used to work the acquisitions desk at Troma Entertainment...every day we'd get a stack of DVDs in the mail of zero-budget films looking to be picked up for distribution, and I'd have to watch them. Like you said, with enough experience, you get to be able to immediately tell the difference between intentional and unintentional mediocrity, which is good, because I personally frown upon the concept of the former. Genuine incompetence is ALWAYS more entertaining, and genuine earnesty is ALWAYS more admirable. I've not only seen all the mistakes in 'Birdemic' done before in serious films, I've seen them done far worse. I recall one film where the sound was so awful, literally all of the dialogue was inaudible. Same with a film whose awful lighting almost made the whole film pitch black. Those elements certainly aren't played for laughs. Why send it out in the hopes of getting it distributed? Was the director THAT determined? Did they not have enough money to fix it in post? Perhaps they were expecting a distribution company to pay to fix it? There are a lot of factors to consider.

Hell, I recently saw a film called 'Pocket Ninjas', filmed in 1994, which probably has the worst editing and cinematography I've ever seen: the 180 degree rule was constantly broken, frames from other scenes would slip into cuts and I seriously believe some scenes are placed in the wrong order, and it's *depressingly* un-ironic. The point is, these things somehow happen. When I saw 'Birdemic', I could immediately sense its honesty, and though the bird scenes are a bit much, your theory that it started out as a serious film but then came to glorify its limitations makes a lot of sense.

Damn, I talk way too much.

In short, wait for 'Birdemic 2' and compare. Whatever legitimate naivete was present in the original will be absolutely abolished in part 2, as there's no doubt they're going to go down the "intentionally bad" route and capitalize on what made the first so successful.

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I agree with your view of the levels of entertainment wholeheartedly.
And you bring up the interesting point of a director hoping for the distributor to fix things.

That is my impression with BIRDEMIC - that somebody could have fixed the technical flaws and decided not to.

Most of the films you got to see during your Troma days must have been total amateur productions, right?
And in those cases few things are really surprising, because very often you have just one guy doing everything from writing the script to editing and making the music. In those cases it is quite understandable that the result can turn out a complete mess. (Though often an admirable creative will shine though...)

But as far as I understand BIRDEMIC has been worked on by many different individuals and if you know you are going to show it at Sundance you might have wishes and ways to clean up the major flaws.

Well, I will definitely try to check out Nguyen's ealier films.
To me the question we are discussing is not really essential for the enjoyment of the film - but it is interesting to see and understand how the minds of moviemakers and audience work today.

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Well, 'Birdemic' was an amateur production...about a $10,000 budget, right? Most of the Troma submissions I saw (and virtually all of the submissions that are actually picked up for distribution) were made for more than or roughly equal that.

Budget doesn't really matter, though, it's entirely in how you use it. There's a lot of planning involved with making a feature film, and if you're working in a section of the country that's not LA or NY and you're likely using Craigslist to hire a crew for less than the cost of a used car, there's bound to be some gaps in quality. However, it also comes down to sheer talent. Robert Rodriguez made 'El Mariachi' himself for $7,000 and it turned out amazing, but Hal Warren made 'Manos: The Hands of Fate' with a crew for $120k (in 1966 dollars) and...well, you know. Anyone can make a movie, but not *everyone* can make a movie, if you catch my drift.

Like I said, we may never know exactly what James Nguyen's true intentions were, but if I had to guess, it seems incredibly obvious that it was *filmed* as a serious movie, but once post-production came along and they realized they couldn't afford/were capable of making decent CGI, they just ran with the cheesiness.

The thing that bothers me about THAT theory, though, is that before 'Birdemic' was picked up by Severin, Nguyen never advertised the movie in a tongue-in-cheek tone, he marketed it seriously....if he KNEW that his movie was bad but he tried to present it otherwise, that means he either A) is like any other typical filmmaker just trying to make a buck regardless, or B) he had *incredible* foresight into how to subtly market his movie, knowing that it would only take a few perceptive viewers to enjoy its incompetence enough to spread it by word-of-mouth.
I honestly don't believe that Nguyen was clever enough to do such a thing, because if you made an intentionally bad film and tried to market it as a serious feature, hoping it gets discovered by the intended audience is one hell of a longshot, as opposed to the film just being lost among the hundreds of other no-budget serious horror films made every year.

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I stand corrected!

I have now bought the DVD and watched all the Extras and both audio commentaries with great interest.
Nguyen is definitely a nice and "simple" guy who loved his work and his movie, and although he seems to go along with the comical reactions to BIRDEMIC, he points out the "serious" elements all the time.

The fact that his roots are in the office- and business-environment seem to be a reason that he is beautifully unaware of many of his artistic deficits.

I am so looking forward to THE JAMES NGUYEN STORY - a documentary the trailer of which surprised me on the DVD!

And I have to mention:
I keep defending MANOS as a very special film - but not a bad one by any meaning of the word!

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Some of you guys are complete suckers. It's obvious that Birdemic is purposely bad. Of course, it was bad to begin with, possibly not "on purpose", but once Nguyen realized the mess of a film he had on his hands, the movie was clearly edited in a way to be ludicrously even more terrible.

You would have to be an idiot to not realize this after watching the first 5-10 minutes of the movie.

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You don't have a lot of bad movie expertise, I presume.

Watch the extras - listen to the guy's commentary - and be enlightened!

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themole-3» You don't have a lot of bad movie expertise, I presume.

Watch the extras - listen to the guy's commentary - and be enlightened!


I think your response was a little harsh.

I'm one of the first in line to admit I don't know what the guy was thinking beyond what he has stated. However, your logic doesn't lead to the conclusion you want it to take you. If I wanted to make a really bad movie because of how bad the original attempt ended I'd say all that stuff in the commentary. Keep in mind all that serious stuff he says were no doubt the original reasons used to attempt making a good movie.

It is a stretch, but I can understand the CGI being so bad. I can even understand the TV sitting there in the news program to make a picture-in-picture type effect. What I can't buy is how horrible the sound effects are. ANYONE trying at all would have cleaned up the sound to just a horrible level at least. NO ONE would have thought the sound effects were okay to be satisfied with at all. That would have bothered anyone with ears.

As far as hoping he could just submit it and hope it would catch on is basically what happened, regardless of his intent. Why not? Why not give it a shot before coming clean. Just submitting the film as a good film would make it all the more believable that he didn't realize it was a bad movie.

All in all I'm guessing it was submitted hoping the right people would see it and it would take off for all the reasons it did. We don't have the actual distributor person who selected this film telling us why it was picked. I don't think the commentary counts more one way or the other.

Either way, one doesn't have to "have a lot of bad movie expertise" to guess correctly or incorrectly one way or the other. None of us are mind readers.


Life is like Wikipedia: There are no Facts, Just Popular Opinion

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> ANYONE trying at all would have cleaned up the sound to just a horrible level at least. NO ONE would have thought the sound effects were okay to be satisfied with at all.

Yes, that is exactly my problem. While I am not expecting perfection, an editor that cared even slightly about the finished product could fix most of the glaring problems and make the sound at least presentable.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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