MovieChat Forums > Natalee Holloway (2009) Discussion > I don't know why people take the time to...

I don't know why people take the time to...

posted 15 years ago by lessthan_zero
65 replies | jump to latest

I don't know why people take the time to come to this board for the purpose of bashing Natalee and her mother.

I'm from Alabama and go to the U of Alabama where Natalee was set to attend. I have friends that graduated with her. Every comment I've heard about her from them is positive, even from the people she didn't hang out with. She was brilliant and kind. No one knows what really happened. Yes, she was drinking...but how do you know that no one slipped something in her drink? I understand that if you're drinking in a bar in a foreign country that you're putting yourself at risk, but she was 18 in paradise with her friends celebrating graduation..how many of you wouldn't have gotten drunk? No one deserves what happened to her, whether she was accidentally killed or sold into slavery, etc. To those individuals who chalk it up to her "being stupid" are cruel and thoughtless. I know for a fact that there have been times where I got drunk at a bar and was hazy about how I got home. Stupid? Maybe. Does that make it alright for me to be abducted/killed? NO!

I don't feel like this movie accurately represents that Mtn. Brook is a VERY affluent part of Birmingham. Although it is a public school, the part of town that it is in is populated by people that probably make around $90,000-$100,000+ a year. I'm not saying that should mean anything, but I think that may be why the case was so high profile. I mean, she was a pretty blond-haired, blue-eyed girl from a wealthy town who vanished into thin air. I also think that maybe she looked at the world through rose-colored glasses (of course this is an assumption on my part). Mtn. Brook doesn't even have any black kids that go to school there. It is 100% white, upper-class. Young girls from backgrounds like that probably don't think about the dangers of over-imbibing in an unfamiliar place. I'm 20 and I know there have been times when I've been to the beach or to concerts or to bars where I met random guys (that seemed harmless) and let them buy me drinks, etc. Girls like Natalee are also probably are pretty trusting since they didn't grow up with reasons to be dubious or hostile.

I hope my comments didn't offend anyone. I just think it's easy to be indifferent or even bitter towards Natalee and her mother because of the circumstances of her disappearance or the publicity that the case got, but if that was your daughter or sister or mother or best friend would you not want the most publicity you could possibly get if it would mean that your loved one would come back safely? I don't wish something like this upon anyone, but maybe if something like this DID happen to the people who are talking s_hit then they would change their tune a little.

[–] Cezar_TheScribe 15 years ago

I agree with you, she more than likely was slipped the date rape drug.

But, I for one wouldn't be drinking and I wouldn't be in a bar.

Don't worry about the trolls that come here.
Hopefully they will find another board or site to troll on.

[–] JVIvies 15 years ago

Yeah,was thinking the same thing as well!!!

But anyone still thinks Jordan covered up the truth????

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

'Stupid? Maybe.'

There's no maybe about it. Stupid? Hell yes!! Just like she was, you just got lucky. Hopefully you've grown a brain by now. No offense of course :)

'Every comment I've heard about her from them is positive, even from the people she didn't hang out with.'

You really think anyone would say anything bad about her? ROFLMAO PC all the way, didn't you know.

'she was 18 in paradise with her friends celebrating graduation..how many of you wouldn't have gotten drunk?'

Me and anyone else with a modicum of intelligence

'Mtn. Brook doesn't even have any black kids that go to school there. It is 100% white, upper-class. Young girls from backgrounds like that probably don't think about the dangers of over-imbibing in an unfamiliar place.'

You know I'm not sure if I should find that insulting. As if black kids equals an exposure to danger.

'I don't wish something like this upon anyone, but maybe if something like this DID happen to the people who are talking s_hit then they would change their tune a little.'

Thing is, nothing exactly like this would ever happen to me or anyone I know because we're all smart enough to know better. Most of us don't drink, and we definitely do not drink excessively. And we stay together always. If any of us disappeared we'd be one of those people who disappear NOT doing the wrong thing, NOT doing something stupid and who get completely ignored because of morons like Natalee Holloway. There are hundreds, thousands of people missing who were abducted who are worth a lot more attention than this baka na onna.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

'she was 18 in paradise with her friends celebrating graduation..how many of you wouldn't have gotten drunk?'

Me and anyone else with a modicum of intelligence

Well said. The problem is, those that need to drink themselves into a stupor (like how the OP said he/she has gotten so drunk they have no memory of the night) cannot grasp the idea that some people can have fun without getting drunk - some can have fun without even drinking.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

Personally, I don't get that. What's the point of having fun if you can't remember it afterwards, if all you can say is 'Yeah, I got really drunk and I can't even remember what I did'? Better yet, what the heck is so fun about being drunk? Might be fun watching some moron make a fool of themselves while they're stinking drunk, but I wouldn't want to be the moron :-D

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

I agree totally. I think it is pretty sad that some people are incapable of having a good time unless they are drinking.

I once worked at a place where we were trying to decide what to do for the 'holiday party' which was usually going out for dinner, and of coure, drinking. I suggested going to Midieval Times as something different to do - and was completely shot down on the idea. The rason? No alcohol during the show. They could only drink in the bar before and after the show - but for 90 minutes of their lives, they would have to try to have a good time without drinking, and many said they just could not do that. To me, that is the epitome of pathetic.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

'To me, that is the epitome of pathetic.'

Complete and total agreement

I had a friend who would always try to push me into drinking whenever we'd go out for dinner. It drove me nuts, I couldn't understand why she couldn't just accept that I didn't feel the need to drink, especially since in most cases I was the driver. Needless to say, we don't really hang out much anymore (last time was during the prep for the wedding of a mutual friend, we were both Bridesmaids).

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

Definitely. I have a group of friends now that I go out with regularly and we all agree that drinking is not necessary for fun. And we have plenty of it, probably more than the people who seem to feel the need to get regularly smashed.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

That is another thing that I cannot understand. Why do drinkers feel the need to badger non-drinkers and try to force us to drink? I hate going out with groups of people, because there almost always is at least one persont that cannot accept that some people just do not drink, for various reasons. (I hate the smell and taste of beer, and really do not like the taste of most alcoholic drinks. Once in a while I might dring something like a pina coloda, but then I am happy just sipping it, but even that does not satisfy the drinkers, who seem to think every drink needs to be finished within five minutes of getting it.) Then there are the ones that, when you get up to go to the bathroom or whatever, will order a drink 'for you' and there it is in front of you when you return. Or your glass of soda that you knew was 1/2 full when you left is suddenlt full, and has an extra scent/taste to it. I just don't understand why drinkers cannot leave non-drinkers alone and let us have fun our own way.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

Then there are the ones that, when you get up to go to the bathroom or whatever, will order a drink 'for you' and there it is in front of you when you return. Or your glass of soda that you knew was 1/2 full when you left is suddenlt full, and has an extra scent/taste to it.

She wasn't quite that bad :-) She just keep asking me, over and over, if I wanted something (at a few different points throughout dinner). Then she'd start suggesting things she liked. When I said no, she'd proceed to ask me over and over if I was sure. Then when she got her drink, she'd keep asking me if I wanted some :) It got annoying after the 10th or so time she'd ask me if I was sure, or tried to push her drink under my nose.

Personally, I've had alcohol before and I think it's disgusting. Add that to the fact that my brother had issues with drinking, I'm just not inclined.

I hate the smell and taste of beer

I've never tasted beer but that's because that was my brother's drink of choice and he'd have open bottles in his room. The smell would spread and... *ugh*. It still makes me nauseous.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

That was the experience with one group that I worked with that I had gone out for a 'holiday dinner' after work with. It just made me very uncomfortable the entire night, and one of them even said I was 'spoiling the party' by not drinking. So I never went with them again, of couse then I was 'anti-social'.

Another place I told them in advance I do not drink, one of them said they would 'change that before the night is over' so now I just choose to not go, it's a lot easier that way.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

That's just ridiculous. People like that are definitely not worth any amount of time.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] LittleMissSunshine1993 15 years ago

jlr1905, thank you for your post. I completely agree with everything you said about Natalee. She was 18 and we all make mistakes at 18. Nobody should judge.

And what you said about Mtn Brook is true too. I went to college at Samford University in the early 90's and found that to be very true.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

Mistakes and blatantly idiotic choices are two different things. Personally, at 18 I had a brain and I chose not to make such blatantly idiotic choices.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

A mistake is when you are paying for something and you accidently hand the cashier a ten dollar bill thinking you pulled out a twenty. A mistake is when you accidently put too much salt on your food.

Saying "give me more, more, more" when it comes to drinking and not stopping until you are in a stupor is a decision.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

I think as long as people continue to view this behavior as a sort of right of passage for teens, as a simple little mistake, it will never end. It will never change. People need to start viewing these things for what they are, stupid choices made by stupid people, and then maybe we might see an end to end and all the consequences (and not always for those who actually engage in the behavior) that go along with it.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] LittleMissSunshine1993 15 years ago

I disagree. I'm 40 and I made a lot of stupid mistakes when I was that age and I know a lot of people that made stupid mistakes at that age too and we're all grown adults now that work, pay our bills, own homes, have children, etc ... It's all about whether people learn from their mistakes and not make the same mistakes again. Not all people will, but most will.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

1) Your 40 meaning your not in your teens NOW. The kinds of things teens are doing now, TODAY, are far removed from the 'stupid mistakes' you made. These are not the 'bad' kids or the school sluts, these are the 'good' kids. The straight A, Honor students, the Michael Phelps.
2) Like I said, mistakes and stupid DECISIONS are two different things in my mind. And just because your stupid DECISIONS didn't lead to you or the lot of people you know getting severely hurt or killed doesn't mean they aren't still STUPID DECISIONS (I'm feeling the need to put an emphasis on this because I'm not sure your getting it). Just because your stupid choice didn't lead to you driving into someone as they innocently drove along or walked down a sidewalk (or in a case specific to my area, ran over a girl who was rollerblading on the sidewalk because you decided to get drunk and high and talk on a cell phone while driving) or that you didn't just take yourself out, doesn't mean that it's still not a STUPID DECISION.

Great you "learned" (though I'm questioning whether you really learned or you just grew out of it since you seem bent on justifying idiotic behavior), doesn't mean it wasn't still a STUPID DECISION. Doesn't mean that it's not something that needs to be addressed because it's becoming a major problem but that people seem intent on writing off as some sort of twisted teenage Right of Passage.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] LittleMissSunshine1993 15 years ago

Yeah, but things aren't that different now from when I was in my teens. It doesn't matter if you were a teen in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's or now ... things like that never change.

And you know what? I'm not justifying idiotic behavior. I'm just saying that I realize kids make stupid decisions and make mistakes and that they shouldn't be damned to hell (as you seem to be so willing to do) just because of that. Some of them will be punished enough by having to deal with the consequences of their behavior and actions and they don't need people like you damning them to hell as you seem bound and determined to do.

If you ever have a child that messes up, I just hope and pray that you can punish them and then forgive and forget and move on (as a grown up, mature parent would do) and not punish them for the rest of their days, but given your statements on this thread I have doubts that you can do that.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

I'm laughing at you. You have no clue clearly

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] lessthan_zero 15 years ago

Obviously YOU have no clue. I have relatives that were teen's in the 60s who ran away to Haight-Ashbury and went to Woodstock and smoked lots of pot, etc. I have cousins who grew up in the 70s who partied way harder than I ever have. If you don't think kids were just as wild in the 80s, go read a book by Bret Easton-Ellis.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

I CLEARLY have more of a clue than you do. They went to Woodstock. Ooooooo, shocking. Teenagers from the past (and I'm not just talking older teens, 16+. Watch the movie 13, get a glimpse) have NOTHING on teens today.

What we have today is a widespread attitude among teens towards risky behavior that is more pervasive than it's ever been. You bring up these things that were isolate incidents (Woodstock) or limited to a small, specific group (Haight-Ashbury) as if it's equivalent to what we're facing today. It's not. What was once 15% is now 80%. Things that teens were doing at 16, they're now doing at 12. And these things are now becoming seen as things that are a normal part of teenage life, a part of teenage behavior, which makes it an even bigger problem.

*sigh* I'm completely wasting my time though I'm sure. Foolish doesn't like to change it's mind.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] lessthan_zero 15 years ago

I do agree with you that epidemics (teen sex, drinking, drugs, etc) are more widespread among youth today, however, that isn't what you said in your reply to Shannon.

Her point was that teenagers have always partied and drank, etc. Making 'stupid decisions' isn't a new thing that kids started doing in the 90s/00s.

You replied saying you were laughing at her because she had no clue.

MY point was that Shannon was right...kids have always been wild. Maybe you missed that.

Haight-Ashbury (and the whole similar scene on the west coast during that time) WAS a big deal. If you read books like 'Go Ask Alice', it will give you an idea of how some kids had it out there.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

I think your reading what you want to read and I have much better things to do than to waste my time. Like I said, have fun and wallow in it. I'm going go back to what I was doing.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] LittleMissSunshine1993 15 years ago

Thanks jlr!

[–] LittleMissSunshine1993 15 years ago

"Teenagers from the past (and I'm not just talking older teens, 16+. Watch the movie 13, get a glimpse) have NOTHING on teens today. "

You're so wrong about that. Teens today get into alot of trouble, but so did teens in the past (whether it be the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's or whatever). I was a kid in the 1970's (with three older sisters), a teenager in the '80's and a young adult in the '90's and kids throughout all three decades get into trouble.

My sisters and I got into our fair share of scrapes and we all got into trouble, but fortunately for our parents it was nothing too serious, but I knew of plenty of kids (some were friends of mine, some were friends of one of my 3 older sisters and some I just knew because they went to my high school) who did drugs, got pregnant, drank and drive, shoplifted, had accidents that killed other people, etc ...

I'm just curious as to how old you are?? I'm guessing not very old, because you don't have a clue as to teens outside of the current decade. You need to realize that irregardless of the decade, kids will always make stupid decisions and do stupid things and will get in trouble and if you think that they were better in the '70's, '80's, 90's or whenever then you're just completely and flat out wrong.

P.S. - I saw the movie "Thirteen" and I knew plenty of people when I was growing up who did things that were just as bad if not worse. It's not something to be proud of or to brag about, but I am just trying to make a point that it is fact.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

If it's not yet apparent, I'm ignoring you. I finally have a summer off, I've decided I'm not going to waste too much of my time arguing with stupid people. So don't bother responding, I'm not going to answer.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] LittleMissSunshine1993 15 years ago

Sorry, but you are the one that doesn't have a clue if you think that kids before the 21st century didn't make mistakes, get into trouble or make stupid decisions. Give me a break. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. That's just insane.

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts ... I think we can both now agree to disagree, because you apparently don't get the point either I or JLR is making.

[–] lessthan_zero 15 years ago

Thank you Shannonm93, I agree.

My mom just turned 53 on the 14th and she has told me some wild stories of her youth. She now has her doctorate degree and is vice president of a graduate school. People need to understand that drinking the "all-evil" alcohol doesn't mean you're a bad person. In fact, I think it's people like that (that make such a big deal out of drinking) contribute to the binge-drinking epidemics and fascination of American youth with booze. Look at countries like Italy where kids are slowly introduced to drinking by having a glass of wine with dinner starting around the age of 10. They have a substantially lower problem with teen binge drinking, etc. I work with a girl from Germany who grew up having wine with dinner, etc, and she hardly drinks now. When I asked her about it she said: "Of course you're always going to have the kids that go out to the clubs and drink, but there isn't such a stigma attached to it where I'm from, so it's not that big of a deal to us".

[–] mswoc 15 years ago

RE: >> I work with a girl from Germany who grew up having wine with dinner, etc, and she hardly drinks now.<<

Its not unusual for Europeans to include wine with meals regularly, its seen more as the culinary experience than mood-altering. I had a good friend who was American born but Italian descent (father 1st generation, mother 2nd) and she had wine with dinner regularly and always stocked her home with wine but was never an excessive drinker, it was a cultural legacy

[–] lessthan_zero 15 years ago

Saying "give me more, more, more" when it comes to drinking and not stopping until you are in a stupor is a decision.

StormAngel- you weren't in Aruba and you have no idea if this is how Natalee was acting. How do you know she didn't have something put into her drink? You obviously want to think the worst about how Natalee handled herself in the situation. I'm sorry if you've had bad experiences with drinkers or alcohol, but whether or not you make the decision to drink, you don't deserve what happened to Natalee.

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

StormAngel- you weren't in Aruba and you have no idea if this is how Natalee was acting. How do you know she didn't have something put into her drink? You obviously want to think the worst about how Natalee handled herself in the situation. I'm sorry if you've had bad experiences with drinkers or alcohol, but whether or not you make the decision to drink, you don't deserve what happened to Natalee.

I am not saying that she deserved it. But I do get annoyed when people (usually drinkers) say that drinking into a stupor is 'something anyone would do!' and things to that effest. Or they try to minimize the drinker's responsibility for their own actions.

The movie also implied that something was put into her drink - how different is that from someone assuming she drank heavily that night? From reports that I have read, Natalee's friends SAID she drank quite heavily while they were there.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

I am not saying that she deserved it.

People seem to make this automatic idiotic if you don't bow down and sob when a person reaps the 'rewards' of their own stupid decisions. I don't think any of us ever said she deserved whatever happened to her, but these people just seem to be reading what they want.

But I do get annoyed when people (usually drinkers) say that drinking into a stupor is 'something anyone would do!' and things to that effect. Or they try to minimize the drinker's responsibility for their own actions.

I don't think they like reading things like this because that would mean they might have to own up, really and truly own up, not just the b.s. lip service most throw out there, to their own idiocy.

From reports that I have read, Natalee's friends SAID she drank quite heavily while they were there.

I think people like to conviently forget this part when they try to portray her an innocent, good girl who was just doing what all teens do. HA!

I found an interesting article: http://www.mcculloughsite.net/stingray/2006/04/18/the-natalee-holloway -case-is-it-worth-all-the.php

I especially like the quote from Eugene Robertson.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

I found an interesting article: http://www.mcculloughsite.net/stingray/2006/04/18/the-natalee-holloway -case-is-it-worth-all-the.php

Interesting reading. Too bad parts of it don't keep up the "totally innocent" victim myth that many want to keep alive.

People seem to make this automatic idiotic if you don't bow down and sob when a person reaps the 'rewards' of their own stupid decisions. I don't think any of us ever said she deserved whatever happened to her, but these people just seem to be reading what they want.

It's sort of like an incident that happened in my area. A drunk driver (and I consider them the worst of all the pathetic drunks) rammed his car into a tree. For once, the drunk driver (and ONLY the drunk driver) was injured in the crash. A bunch of people were posting "Oh, I hope he will be ok" types of posts. I posted that I was glad to see that no INNOCENT people were hurt or killed. I did get a few that agreed with me, but of course, others (most likely others that drive drunk) jumped to his defense, saying anyone that didn't feel compassion for a drunk that endangered the lives of others was 'heartless'. I think the heartless one is the drunk driver. They are the ones that, after the accident, are all "Poor, poor me! I am going to lose my license! Poor me! If I can't drive, I could lose my job! Poor me!" with very little (if any) real thought to the innocent people they hurt, maimed or even murdered.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

I consider them the worst of all the pathetic drunks

I can not tell you how much I agree. It always pisses me off when I hear stories of drunk drivers taking out innocent people and surviving. Recently they had a story where I live of a guy driving drunk, he slammed into a family's van (a father driving with his children) and killed the children. In one fell swoop he destroyed an entire family and walked away completely unharmed. And the worse part is that there's little to no remorse.

*sigh* It's times like this that make you feel outnumbered. All these stupid people surrounding the few with intelligence, and unfortunately there's always this belief that those with the greatest numbers are the most right. Makes me feel quite hopeless about the future of this country, especially, and this world.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

In one fell swoop he destroyed an entire family and walked away completely unharmed. And the worse part is that there's little to no remorse.

Sadly, that is almost always the case with the drunk driver. They walk away from the accident, but others lives are ruined or ended. And yet people wonder why I have no sympathy at all for drunk drivers, even in the rare cases where they are actually hurt. What gets me is how the drunks can turn around and sue the bar owner, or a home owner where they drank, because that person didn't stop them from drinking. It's like they have no responsibility for their own actions anymore.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

I think we've reached an age where no one believes in taking responsibility for their own actions anymore, as is clearly evidenced by the people in this thread. All those stories you hear of people doing stupid things and suing others, AND WINNING!!, for things they caused with their own stupidity (person suing McDonald's over a hot cup of coffee, woman suing hardware store when she tripped over her own bratty child, etc), it drives me nuts.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

How about the people suing McDonald's because they got fat? They don't want to admit, "You know, I should have stopped eating after the third burger and I really didn't need three apple pies!"

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

Yeah that drives me nuts too. Unless someone's actually forcing the food down your throat, it's no one's fault but your own.

On that vein, I find the people suing airlines for embarassment because they're too big to fit in one seat annoying. Sucks that you don't want to face it but your fat and if you take up two seats, you need to pay for two, especially if your putting others in a uncomfortable situation. If you really feel so strongly about it, go on a diet and start exercising. I know that's probably an unpopular opinion but if you've ever been on a plane smooshed between fat people, you'll appreciate the airlines stance on it a bit more. I once spent a flight in the middle of three seats with this ginormous guy sitting in the aisle seat spreading his bulk over on to my seat. If it weren't for the fact that the woman on my other side was at most 5 feet, 100 lbs soaking wet, I would have had a claustrophobic fit on the plane. Even with just that I was still twitching by the time the plane landed.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

Oh that one really gets to me! In fact I was on another forum talking about that issue. And I totally agree.

Some argue that it will embarass a person to have to pay for two seats. I say that if you have so much blubber you need two seats, you should already be embarassed. If a person is using two seats, they need to pay for two seats. Why should I pay full fare for a plane ticket (or any other place that I have to pay for a seat, for that matter) and then have to share that seat with someone, simply because they never could control themself when it somes to food? There is no need to eat an entire pint of ice cream, or an entire bag of cookies in one sitting.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

People... what can you do. More I think about it the more I think that I should go live in the woods somewhere away from people :-D

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] Catnip86 15 years ago

And my mom wonders why I often say that I like animals better than I like people, lol.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

I get it completely. Boots (my favorite cat in the world) never causes me near as much frustration at the stupid people I encounter on a daily basis. It's beginning to feel like I'm just a magnet for stupidity, I find it everywhere I go these days. Then again maybe it's just because I live in Miami, looooooots of stupid people here :-D

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] mswoc 15 years ago

"person suing McDonald's over a hot cup of coffee"
the facts
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

"woman suing hardware store when she tripped over her own bratty child, etc"
this one's an urban legend, there is no documented case like this
http://www.stellaawards.com/bogus.html
http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?event=showPage&pg=isstort

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

1) I'm not sure if those 'facts' were supposed to change my mind but it really just proved my point. The woman was a moron. You squeeze something between your knees (which would be the only was she could hold it), when you take off the only thing holding it back (the cover), it's going to explode on to you. As for it being hot, that's what coffee is. It's hot, you should know that. It's not McDonald's fault that people were idiots and burned themselves. Just like it wouldn't be the fault of the company who produced and iron or a stove that you burned yourself on. That was a frivolous lawsuit by an idiotic woman who didn't want to take responsibility for her own stupidity. I wouldn't have paid her a red cent if I was McDonald's.

2) Meh, whether it's an urban legend or not it illustrates a very real point.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] lessthan_zero 15 years ago

Well Joyful (which, btw, seems like an ironic user name for you) you seem like you're hell bent on bashing anyone who defends Natalee Holloway or any teen ANYWHERE that has ever drank or made a stupid choice. I'm guessing you've never made a dumb decision EVER, wow, congrats, how I envy you.

Anyway, I shouldn't bother replying to a troll like you but since you have said things that personally bash me I feel the need to defend myself.

There's no maybe about it. Stupid? Hell yes!! Just like she was, you just got lucky. Hopefully you've grown a brain by now. No offense of course :)

It seems you conveniently ignored the second part of that sentence. I will be the first to admit that it is indeed a stupid decision for me to get drunk to the point of not remembering part of my night, but does that make it okay for me to be abducted/killed/etc? NO, it doesn't. Maybe to you it does, since you seem to have a vendetta against all teen-early 20s kids that drink (which is, and this is a estimation: 80%). No one ever deserves that fate.

You really think anyone would say anything bad about her? ROFLMAO PC all the way, didn't you know.

Obviously you've never been to a fraternity house and heard the mouths on some of those guys. I hardly think it would bother them to talk ill of the dead/missing. These are the guys that beat the s_hit out of the people who are their "brothers". I think most of the fraternity guys I know from UA are the least-PC people I've ever met.

Me and anyone else with a modicum of intelligence

I'm glad you think soooo highly of yourself. Obviously you're the golden example for everyone to follow and emulate. Guess what, kids drink...if you don't drink, GREAT! More power to you! I have lots of friends that choose not to drink and...guess what...bad things still happen to them. One of my good friends that doesn't drink went out on her front porch around 2 in the morning fall semester of last year. She had a phone call and couldn't get a signal in her house. In the 5 minutes she spent on the front porch, a man came up to her, drug her around the side of the house, and raped her. She is one of the nicest people I know. She has a 4.0, just got accepted into nursing school, helps to run a campus ministry group, and volunteers in her free time. Did she deserve what happened to her? NO! College kids are going to drink no matter what, whether it's a good choice or not. While drinking could raise the chance that something bad could happen to you or cloud your judgement shouldn't mean that if something does indeed happen that you deserve it. Your intelligence isn't armor. To err is human, whether your mistake is getting drunk or lying or cheating or talking bad about a friend behind their back.

You know I'm not sure if I should find that insulting. As if black kids equals an exposure to danger.

I didn't mean that comment to be insulting. I was just trying to drive home the point that these kids were SHELTERED. If you go to 90% of public schools around the U.S., chances are you'll find tons of economic, social, cultural diversity. This is a public school that was 100% white and upper class (on the socio-economic scale) in the middle of the suburbs. Kids like that don't have to worry about a lot of the things that other kids at public schools in the U.S. might have to worry about. Also, most kids from Mtn. Brook attend UA, where there is a whole subculture (greek life) centered around drinking. From the parties to the swaps to the football games-chances are you'll find alcohol at these events. Once again, I'm not saying that this right, but it's real and it happens. If kids are immersed in a culture where something like that is the norm, then they are more likely to do it. It's like if a kid grows up in Compton in CA. There is a chance that they will get involved in gang life since that is a large part of the culture in Compton. While the actions of gang members are reprehensible, it doesn't make it any less sad when a 10 year old boy gets involved with gangs and is killed because of it.

Thing is, nothing exactly like this would ever happen to me or anyone I know because we're all smart enough to know better. Most of us don't drink, and we definitely do not drink excessively. And we stay together always. If any of us disappeared we'd be one of those people who disappear NOT doing the wrong thing, NOT doing something stupid and who get completely ignored because of morons like Natalee Holloway. There are hundreds, thousands of people missing who were abducted who are worth a lot more attention than this baka na onna.

Your patronizing tone is nauseating. Like I said in my response above about my friend that was raped- it doesn't matter who you are or what you're doing, NO ONE deserves that. Maybe if something bad happened to you because you just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then your circumstances would be easier to sympathize with but it wouldn't make it any more tragic or wrong.

I know you'll probably just write some condescending response to all of this, but you shouldn't even waste your time. People like you make me sick and your opinions are all moot to me. At the end of the day, no matter how you slice it, a family is without their daughter. It doesn't matter about anything else. The Holloways will never get to see their daughter graduate from college, get married, or have children. That in itself is tragic enough. Why do you come to this board to bash Natalee and her family? Does it make you feel better? Does it make you feel superior? If you're bitter about other cases not getting as much media attention then be PROACTIVE about it and start an advocate group or something. If teen drinking bothers you then go give speeches at high schools about the dangers of it or volunteer to help at DUI classes or something. Going on the IMDb board about a girl who went missing to b_itch about it just makes you look pathetic.

[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

You know I would have bothered to read this but I get the feeling that it would have been a completely waste of my time. Honestly I've found the longer the statement, the more hot air a person's blowing and I know how stupid people like to defend their own stupidity. That and I know I'm going to get annoyed because in defending their own stupidity, people love to conveniently twist my statements (such as saying that 'no matter what they did, they didn't deserve bad things happening' as if that's what I said) and I don't feel like being annoyed tonight. Because I know the stupid doesn't like to change and no matter what I say, it's not going to take away the stupid. So wallow in it and hope that if you have kids, they might somehow absorb some intelligence from elsewhere, because clearly they're not gonna get it from you. And hope that if they don't, they manage to find the luck to survive their idiotic decisions that Natalee Holloway didn't find

Well Joyful (which, btw, seems like an ironic user name for you)

Not really ironic, it's my name

On another note, I love how with people like you anyone who doesn't agree completely and totally somehow become trolls. If what it takes to not be a troll is complete and total agreement with the majority, even when the majority is stupid as heck, I'm happy to be a troll.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] lessthan_zero 15 years ago

Speaking of wasting your time, I'm glad you're still hanging out on the Natalee Holloway board talking badly of her. I'm sure that is a very productive activity for you.

If you don't read anything from my longer response, at least read the last paragraph where I tell you to do something proactive with your obvious bitterness towards this case.

I'm not going to bash your hypothetical children or your intelligence (as you seem to enjoy doing to me). I'm a pre-law college student who balances a social life with school work. You have no idea who I am so your intended insults to my intelligence don't faze me.

I hope one day you can overcome your need to be bitter and condescending, life is much better when you don't spend it putting others down :)

Have a good week!

[–] Gods_finest 15 years ago

^Great post!

[–] LittleMissSunshine1993 15 years ago

"Not really ironic, it's my name "

"Joyful's" your name??

[–] bonogirlu2 15 years ago

I live in the Birmingham area, and I find it hard to believe that no black students go to Mountain Brook. I hope that isn't true.
I would never bash anyone, but everyone knows that you shouldn't let yourself get into positions where you have no control over yourself, that is what happened. IF she was drugged, which I doubt, that would mean that she left her drink unattended, which would be stupid. I think she died of alcohol poisoning, and that Vondersloot idiot handled it the wrong way, because he obviously is a total jack ass. Another stupid decision, hanging out with a total stranger. I don't get it. I keep wondering why no one says anything about the Chaperones?

[–] lessthan_zero 15 years ago

I readily agree it should've been more heavily chaperoned!

Also, I'm pretty sure there are no black kids there right now. I know someone who graduated in 06 and they said there was a black girl there the year before him who graduated, or maybe one guy who was on the football team, but I don't think there are any there right now.

[–] catty1-2 15 years ago

I agree with you. Very well said.

[–] sadie_001 15 years ago

I dont think she was on the date rape drug.. I think she died of Alcohol poisoning like Joran said. You seem to be forgetting that her friends reportly said she drank EVERY night. It was to the point that she did not go to breakfast in the mornings. With days of drinking, it certainly would have done it.I had a friend who drank every night to the point where he had alcohol poisoning, same symtoms as Natalee. He almost died too.

Natalie was stupid (I dont think she deserve what happen, but lets just say the truth for once) and I wish somebody acknowledge her mistake. Of course, her parents dont want to admit it. They want to think that their daughter was innocent and was forcely rape. If she did not want to have sex with Joran, why do you think she went in the car with him. She must have known that was the next step.

Second, her mother was disrespectful. Throughout the case, she kept bad mouthing Aruba. Sure, I agree they did horribly with the case but this is NOT America. You cant compare US standards with Aruba. Beth was stupid because the more she insults the country, the less they will help you. She should have kissed the polices ass so that they would help her a lot more. Plus, she kept on bring allegations after allegations on what happen to her daughter. Some of which were simply not true. This ruin her credability. She kept accusing them of gang rape, date rape drug when she simply did not know. Sure I think those boys did it but she altimately ruin the case.

[–] sadie_001 15 years ago

Also, Beth kept on and on that nobody was helping her. She had more help than other missing people case. Government employees were looking for her even Arubans volunteer. The dutch army also helped. She is such a ungreatful brat. The FBI even got involved. Not to mention the coverage. I remember a black girl who was missing at the same time. She was 25, master student in NYC, missing when she left work (not some drunk white girl) and the press simply ignored her. Her mother begged NBC and CNN to cover it and she was denied. Missing minorities and the poor (including poor whites) do not receive any coverage. Rich, white beautiful girls get the attention. Very ungrateful mother.

[–] Gods_finest 15 years ago

sadie 001 wrote:
I dont think she was on the date rape drug.. I think she died of Alcohol poisoning like Joran said.

You really believe anything that boy says? Even if that's true, what did he do afterward? If he threw her in the ocean because he thought she was dead, as he confessed to doing, then that still qualifies as murder, not to mention lying to the police. That boy is a bigger liar and criminal than anybody.

Also, Beth kept on and on that nobody was helping her. She had more help than other missing people case. Government employees were looking for her even Arubans volunteer. The dutch army also helped. She is such a ungreatful brat. The FBI even got involved. Not to mention the coverage.

What good is all that if the main people who are supposed be helping (the police) aren't doing their job? The whole world could have gone to Aruba and searched, and every media outlet in the world could cover it. But that doesn't do one ounce of good if the corrupt police there are doing everything they can to help protect the guy who did it.

I remember a black girl who was missing at the same time. She was 25, master student in NYC, missing when she left work (not some drunk white girl) and the press simply ignored her. Her mother begged NBC and CNN to cover it and she was denied. Missing minorities and the poor (including poor whites) do not receive any coverage. Rich, white beautiful girls get the attention.

While some of what you say is true, I don't fully agree. While all cases should be treated equally, the NH case was different from most missing persons cases. First of all, she went missing in a different country, which added a fascinating component to it. Had she gone missing here in the US, I doubt if the case would have received as much coverage.

Secondly, whereas most missing persons cases have no leads, the NH case had leads. There was a suspect who the police refused to arrest until pressured to do so. Of course, by that time, he had ample time to cover his tracks and get rid of all evidence. Not to mention that his father is an attourney who knew exactly what to do to protect his son, and was also being helped by the police So, the fact that it took place overseas, there was a suspect, and the lack of cooperation from the Aruban police all made this case more attractive to the media than other cases. As bad as it is to say, it was really like a soap opera.

[–] mswoc 15 years ago

RE: >>While all cases should be treated equally, the NH case was different from most missing persons cases. First of all, she went missing in a different country, which added a fascinating component to it. Had she gone missing here in the US, I doubt if the case would have received as much coverage.<<

Nice try, but NH was one more example in a long list -- Laci Peterson, Chandra Levy, Jon Benet Ramsey, Jennifer Wilbanks, etc

there are comparable women/girls of color for each one of those who never got anywhere near the attention -- Megan Williams, Tamika Huston, Joyce Chiang who's disappearance had striking similarities to Chandra Levy. Phylicia Moore's tragic death while on a high-school sponsored trip in Ghana still has lots of mystery and suspicion surrounding the evidence and she hardly became a household name

each case, white or not, has its own set of unique peculiarities but only the white ones seem worthy of playing out in the media like a heavily promoted "soap opera"

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Joyful51485 15 years ago

Me and you are almost of the exact same mind. Half the things you said, I said before. Maybe jlr might get a clue hearing it from a second person, though I doubt it. She seems quite mentally deficient.

OBAMA WON!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–] 15 years ago

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