Interesting comments, guys.
My concern is actually less about feminism (though I wish the mom character had been a little less helpless) than it is about gender hostility, about battle lines being drawn between boys and girls. If you look at Jimmy Neutron, if you look at Dexter's Laboratory, you see the same thing -- girls are the Enemy, not to be trusted. Granted, in real life, elementary school age boys and girls generally don't get along very well, but in the movies I prefer to see boys and girls learning to be friends.
Distrust between the genders seems to permeate our pop culture these days. I can guess where it comes from: with so many divorces these days, fewer and fewer children are growing to adulthood with a model of a healthy, harmonious male/female relationship, one based on friendship as much as sexual desire, before their eyes. The children of divorce are now the adults making movies and writing screenplays. On the Big Screen, we see buddy comedies like "The Hangover," in which women are depicted as good for one thing only, and if they want the connection to progress BEYOND that one thing, they become shrill, power-hungry harpies to be avoided at all costs; on the other side of the gender fence, we see "chick flicks" in which the male characters are basically neutered, the kinds of characters with whom a male audience would never identify in a billion years. (In the 1930s, girls worshipped Clark Gable and Cary Grant. In the 1940s and into the '50s, it was Frank Sinatra. Nowadays? It's cozily non-threatening pubescent Justin Bieber, with his teeny tiny eyes and homogenized voice. I doubt many guys would call this progress.) Pink for boys and blue for girls, and never the twain shall meet. I can't think of the last comedy designed to appeal to both male and female audiences.
It disheartens me to think of this gender hostility trickling "down" into family films, which, if they are well done, can be some of the best films of all. One of the things I appreciated about "Tangled" was that the male character was allowed a personality and a sense of humor and (in the end) heroism. In "Toy Story 3" (which I defended vociferously against charges of sexism), toys of both genders work together to bring about the desired end. In Pixar films, even though the protagonist is always male, gender is rarely an obstacle, and both guys and gals get to do great things. EVE is as much a hero as WALL-E, and it takes nothing away from Flik to show Dot discovering how to use her wings. In "Monsters Inc.," both major characters are male, but in the end the toddler girl rises up and defends herself. Courage and heroism, generosity and friendship are not exclusive to one gender or the other.
As an adult animation geek, I like to check out the reviews for the new releases. This was one I kinda wanted to see, because I've enjoyed Breathed's work. However, nearly every review -- even the positive ones -- said the same thing: this is NOT a female-friendly film, and gender hostility, male suspicion of females in power, was all over it. I don't think I want to see that.
I would, however, like a spoiler -- what, exactly, happens to Ki in the end, when the Earth-folk she's befriended inevitably leave her behind?
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Pook_Pook_Pook
13 years ago
I think it's rather more worrying that it seem to be socialy acceptable now for women to be sexist towards men. When a man is ill for instance women think it's okay to call it "man flu", can you imnagine the fuss if that was reversed?
On a slightly related point, are there any sitcoms with a sensible inteligent man is married to a stupid/dizzy woman? I can't think of any, the man is always the idiot.
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lizzylee
13 years ago
It shouldn't work either way. One can't right a wrong with another wrong.
Both men and women are best understood as individuals, not types. If we try to understand each other in the Plural, we will fail, every single time.
I ask again: what happens to Ki?
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dnvs28
13 years ago
Lizzylee,
I haven't seen this movie, and having written my share of college essays on gender relations, I have much to agree, add, and dispute in response to this post, but all I want to say is that this is excellent commentary: extremely well-written, thoughtful, amusing, and insightful. I enjoyed reading it, and if you're not involved in some sort of writing, I think you should be.
Interesting point about the buddy comedies being written by children of divorce. I have long found Judd Apatow's movies to be unbelievably demeaning to women, and anything starring Vince Vaughn seems to fit women in three boxes: the cheating bitch, the ditzy slut, and the 'cool girl' that quietly puts up with way too much *beep*
It's too bad so many people say 'just watch the movie, don't over-analyze it' - something I've found men like to say when they know you're right - because if more people thought about the messages they - and their kids - are fed, we'd all be better off.
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snigglerama
13 years ago
Please see the movies on which you comment. This is all well written, but you basically finished with "I don't really know what I'm talking about because I didn't actually see it".
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snigglerama
13 years ago
Please see the movies on which you comment. This is all well written, but you basically finished with "I don't really know what I'm talking about because I didn't actually see it".
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neko-26
12 years ago
I honestly think you missed the point of his post, snigglerama. He wasn't reviewing the film, so much as making a statement about gender relations in pop culture. He said that he read reviews (good and bad, he said) that pointed out the gender-tension in the film. He was more or less discouraged by what he read, and as such chose not to see the film. He didn't make any direct commentary on the film itself, however he did manage to illustrate some good points that applied to the film (as a range reviewer's had depicted to him.) And when direct commentary was made, it was about animations that he had first hand experience with (Dexter, and Jimmy Neutron.)
So in a way, your comment is kind of implying that you view reading movie reviews as an invalid method of determining how one will spend their dollars at the box-office. Although to be fair with you, I usually just see whatever the heck I wanna see, then check reviews just to see whether other people agree with me on how good or bad a film was; which is honestly what most people seem to do (am I right?) or else there wouldn't be so many "BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD" type comments on negative review articles posted on the Internet.
That being said...allow me to hate for a moment. I'm not surprised that this movie failed to see a profitable return. Did you watch the trailer posted here on IMDB? It's atrocious. And in traditional hating style, I'll just leave it at that without saying why I found it to be so.
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csw_aviation
11 years ago
Well commented Lizzylee.
One thing that i would raise at this point since it has been touched upon already.
From a sociological perspective about the taught hostility between male and female. when kids are young (pre pubescent) they play pretty equally. once they approach puberty they tend to segrgate themselves and view each other with confusion (which can lead to a mild derision or hostility) as they cross the barrier of puberty they must cross a cultural divide that is principally hormone driven. if not for that the genders would stay far apart.
into early adulthood, we ignore much of the division but it is still there and into old age we just don't care anymore about the differernces.
in popular culture, since the 50s the popular style was the working husband, the nurturing housewife with his slippers and pipe. the 70s brought about a lot of reversals and relative steps toward equality but in doing so, much was done to bring around a culture that painted males as slow witted and self absorbed. females were shown to be mature and smart and cooperative. it became OK to do to boys and men what was unthinkable to girls and women just a decade before.
to this day, many shows talk of the struggle women have to have a satifying and challenging job, a healthy social life, a solid home life and be a mother.
yet the show the men as either tyrannical operssors or hapless losers with an occasional vacuous 'boytoy'
some of it is our own greed. Lawyers often fan the flames of hate in divorce proceedings, many a couple that simply find the marriage has fallen apart and just want it to end are openly encouraged to fight for ever greater amounts in the break up so that they can make more from the proceedings.
at the risk of repeating something that is long said "it's only a movie"
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csw_aviation
11 years ago
Well commented Lizzylee.
One thing that i would raise at this point since it has been touched upon already.
From a sociological perspective about the taught hostility between male and female. when kids are young (pre pubescent) they play pretty equally. once they approach puberty they tend to segrgate themselves and view each other with confusion (which can lead to a mild derision or hostility) as they cross the barrier of puberty they must cross a cultural divide that is principally hormone driven. if not for that the genders would stay far apart.
into early adulthood, we ignore much of the division but it is still there and into old age we just don't care anymore about the differernces.
in popular culture, since the 50s the popular style was the working husband, the nurturing housewife with his slippers and pipe. the 70s brought about a lot of reversals and relative steps toward equality but in doing so, much was done to bring around a culture that painted males as slow witted and self absorbed. females were shown to be mature and smart and cooperative. it became OK to do to boys and men what was unthinkable to girls and women just a decade before.
to this day, many shows talk of the struggle women have to have a satifying and challenging job, a healthy social life, a solid home life and be a mother.
yet the show the men as either tyrannical operssors or hapless losers with an occasional vacuous 'boytoy'
some of it is our own greed. Lawyers often fan the flames of hate in divorce proceedings, many a couple that simply find the marriage has fallen apart and just want it to end are openly encouraged to fight for ever greater amounts in the break up so that they can make more from the proceedings.
at the risk of repeating something that is long said "it's only a movie"
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