MovieChat Forums > Kung Fu Panda 2 (2011) Discussion > Worst plot device ever

Worst plot device ever

posted 12 years ago by jawsnnn
21 replies | jump to latest

Disclaimer : This post is not about this movie, which I liked well enough.

The worst plot device in the history of literature and movie has to be the prophecy. I never got its appeal. It kills all the suspense in the plot, makes everything corny, and more often than not ends up as a deus ex machina solving everything by the very nature of its existence (see Harry Potter, Matrix for examples). I guess this all started from Dune, where the original prophecy was not even that black and white. In that novel, the choices were so complicated for the hero that even though the prophecy is known to be 100% credible, there was still some plot left.

But in most of the other movies/books I have seen it ends up irritating me. I mean in this movie they did not even need to mention that it was foretold Po was going to defeat Shen. It served no purpose as a plot development device in the end. It only made me realize that the two or three scenes where it was implied Po was defeated/killed were just killing time. This was a good movie, so it got away with it, but it makes me wonder - are there suits who insist on having a bland prophecy thrown in every time a project is greenlighted?

[–] xerxerxex 12 years ago

I happen to like the prophecy device, it forces the character to make the choices and go through with the plan...sure its getting stale...but it works for those movies/books.

"You give my regards to St. Peter or whoever has his job... but in Hell."

[–] Webcrawler89 12 years ago

Really? Dune? That's where you think it started? I'm sorry, you can't talk about this being the "worst plot device in the history of literature" if you can only go as far back as Dune.

It's funny, you even use the term deus ex machina, and yet you fail to think that maybe the concept started with the Greeks/Romans. Continued with Shakespeare, heck, every major story has a prophecy of some sorts, and yet you "guess this all started from Dune"?

I'm sorry, I know I sound like a hipster right now, but so do you, what with your Dune nonsense. In fact, so does everyone on every message board in the entire Internet. There was no point in you even creating this comment if you liked the movie, because clearly you don't know enough about literature to actually have fully-formed thoughts about "deus ex machina" and their useful/uselessness, and if you really were curious, why in this day and age, you can just google "why use deus ex machinas". This is why I try hard to not even bother posting, but your comment was so asinine that I just had to, I just had to point it out.

There...the Internet has broken me. I've snapped. Goodnight.

[–] jawsnnn 12 years ago

pfft... it looks like you were already broken.

Still I will try to present an argument.

Really? Dune? That's where you think it started? I'm sorry, you can't talk about this being the "worst plot device in the history of literature" if you can only go as far back as Dune.

I do not understand why you are so hyper about the factual errors in the post. I mentioned that I think it all started with Dune in literature. Maybe I was talking about contemporary literature? Maybe I was talking about the messianic prophecies that crop up all over pop culture every few months? Maybe as I said in the original post - I was guessing? Maybe I was trying not to have a hard-on about facts and wanted to get on to the real gripe I had with the thing?

Sure Shakespeare had prophecies, and even before that ever since the beginning of myths and legends - the prophecy has been there. But I was not concerned with that. I do NOT have a bone to pick with Shakespeare. I do however resent the overuse of any cliche in any form of art.

It's funny, you even use the term deus ex machina, and yet you fail to think that maybe the concept started with the Greeks/Romans. Continued with Shakespeare, heck, every major story has a prophecy of some sorts, and yet you "guess this all started from Dune"?

Did I say the term or the concept of Deus Ex Machina was coined by Frank Herbert. Read the post before crapping on the floor dude. Where would I be without Internet trolls to feed me obvious bits of information every minute. It would do you good to find out where the term originated - as a warning to scriptwriters to NOT to use the device of a god figure as a plot resolution tool. Even the ancient greeks knew to not to use the concept, and you think that it all started with me on an iMDB board.

I'm sorry, I know I sound like a hipster right now, but so do you, what with your Dune nonsense.

These hipster references never made any sense to me being a foreigner. I do not live in America and could do with less inside cultural references. I like Dune - not a lot (its a bit too careful for my tastes) but enough to realize that it started a lot of tropes that got old really fast.

There was no point in you even creating this comment if you liked the movie, because clearly you don't know enough about literature to actually have fully-formed thoughts about "deus ex machina" and their useful/uselessness.

Three paragraphs in, and I still do not have a clue to your problem with the original post. You make an assumption that I do not know about literature. That is one of the stupider and misinformed things I have heard. I do not claim to 'know' about literature. I like reading books, of all kinds and shapes and sizes but I do not do that with a mission to 'know' about literature. You are obviously a person who 'knows' literature. Tell her I said Hi.

and if you really were curious, why in this day and age, you can just google "why use deus ex machinas".

That is not what I do when I am irritated by a plot device. When I do not like something in a movie/book that is my opinion and I do not "google" it to take the approval of general consensus. However, since I am an ordinary person most of the time the issues I have with such things turn out to be something which others have noticed too. So I post on a public message board to find out what they want to say about the stuff. Which as a side effect - also attracts whiners like you.

This is why I try hard to not even bother posting, but your comment was so asinine that I just had to, I just had to point it out.

AND I SAY A GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR!

[–] lithium099 12 years ago

Sometimes a prophecy ties in with the larger story in a beneficial way. Dune is one where a lot of interesting, important events revolve around prophecy. Likewise for the Matrix and Hellboy. But it does seem like there are a lot of movies where a bland "And it has been foretold a hero will come" line is tossed in without explanation or examination. It raises more questions than it answers, trivializes the good guys' struggle, and removes tension. You may well be right that studio suits force it in there as a kind of good-luck charm.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jawsnnn 12 years ago

Actually, your second point makes a lot of sense.

I still think that there might have been better ways to do it... but to each his own.

[–] Erazer528 12 years ago

I agree! There are far worse examples of prophecies just being randomly thrown in. This bugged me a little in the original first movie, because Po would have never had the chance to follow his dreams if he wasn't chosen as the Dragon Warrior. Doesn't really work with the moral it is trying to tell us, does it?

The only thing that annoys me about your post is that you constantly call Kung Fu Panda a "Children's film". The original movie was much more geared towards kids as I see it, but especially this sequel was far away from simply being for kids. It's a family movie, for sure, but calling it a children's film is a little degrading.

[–] Someone89 12 years ago

*beep* Dune fans.

--------------------------
New Siggy: Some people on IMDB whine just as bad as 2 yr olds.

[–] jawsnnn 12 years ago

Dude... calm down. If you don't like Dune, fine - there's no need to parade the fact.

[–] DrEinstein 12 years ago

To me, what saves the prophesy device in this film is the idea that Shen was also black and white and it was actually he who defeated himself.

[–] daydreamer021979 12 years ago

Prophecies are as old as time. They exist in the real world as well as fiction. Even though they say something will happen they tend to be very vague about HOW it will happen. And since many disagree about their validity there is still plenty of suspense.

I Am Who I Am.
Your approval isn't required.

[–] Asteri-Atypical 12 years ago

Even though they say something will happen they tend to be very vague about HOW it will happen

Agreed.

The prophecy device is just a device; and can be used well or poorly.

Personally, I like where there is a twist to the prophecy. Either where there is something vague, or something which leaves a major decision still to be made, or where something turns out to be completely unlike what was expected (e.g. Babylon 5 used it marvelously; there are some elements you knew would happen, but how you got there, and just what the characters were doing, why, and who were really the enemies, was not what you would expect)

Entertainment and politics... I see Ellsworth Toohey is winning...

[–] daydreamer021979 12 years ago

Agreed. Babylon 5 just had good writing in general. Never a cliche in sight. They never had the status quo returned to normal at the end of the day and the thing I thought was best about how it was written was that it had the whole plotline planned out from start to finish. It was a complete story with a beginning, middle and end.

I Am Who I Am.
Your approval isn't required.

[–] Asteri-Atypical 12 years ago

Agreed. Babylon 5 just had good writing in general. Never a cliche in sight.

Funny thing is they actually had SOME clichés, but they were played with and not taken seriously. Sometimes they became the butt of jokes.

...and the thing I thought was best about how it was written was that it had the whole plotline planned out from start to finish. It was a complete story with a beginning, middle and end.

Indeed. The only show, to my knowledge, on TV, which actually managed to do that. Some other shows have claimed it (coughcoughlostcough), and some others have had general ideas for ultimate directions, but none which actually had mapped out not only the ultimate fates of the characters and situations, but had a number of overlapping plot arcs, also in mind.

That is why JMS was able to play around with some prophetic ideas, as well as some interesting future episodes and a limited time travel twist. He knew where things were going and how interesting they would become.

Ahh, I miss good writing like that on TV.

Entertainment and politics... I see Ellsworth Toohey is winning...

[–] daydreamer021979 12 years ago

"Funny thing is they actually had SOME clichés, but they were played with and not taken seriously. Sometimes they became the butt of jokes. "

Self aware humor done well.

"That is why JMS was able to play around with some prophetic ideas, as well as some interesting future episodes and a limited time travel twist. He knew where things were going and how interesting they would become. "

Hence why it was one of my favorite tv shows of all time.

"Ahh, I miss good writing like that on TV. "

Sadly we may never see such good shows again now that reality tv seems to be the norm and producers aren't willing to give new stuff a chance to find its niche without canceling it without warning. In a world where Firefly can be canceled there are no certainties.

I Am Who I Am.
Your approval isn't required.

[–] Tsavo 9 years ago

SWEET! Babylon 5 is my all time FAVORITE series actually, and seeing it come up in discussion just makes me extremely happy! Gah! I have to go watch it now!

[–] wunderdunder 10 years ago

To me it's a macguffin. It has become a bit cliche though.