MovieChat Forums > The Irishman (2019) Discussion > Another Problem - Sheeran Probably Didn'...

Another Problem - Sheeran Probably Didn't Kill Hoffa


at least, a lot of experts on the question believe he didn't. and why should they be foisting upon us one dubious version, among several equally or more probable ones, as unambiguous history ?

https://www.phillyvoice.com/mob-talk-frank-sheeran-kill-jimmy-hoffa-thge-irishman/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-irishman-tells-us-who-killed-jimmy-hoffa-a-lawyer-with-a-secret-trove-of-documents-says-the-movie-got-it-wrong/2020/01/14/8b211b88-0bcc-11ea-97ac-a7ccc8dd1ebc_story.html

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They made a crime drama movie with actors, not a documentary. Hollywood has manipulated "based on a true story" stories for years; I thought most people were onto this. Nothing was "foisted".

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some people don't mind being fed a load of crap. some do.

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If it was a history book, I'd consider it being fed a load of crap. It's not, though. They weren't pretending to give me a documentary; from my perspective, they weren't feeding anything and I wasn't biting. Since it's a crime-thriller film, I'm okay with liberties taken as long as they've got a great story to tell me.

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we simply disagree on how many liberties can be taken when real people and events are depicted in film.

i dont object to juicing the story up on the edges. but substantial distortions are, for me, intolerable.

a good example of this was way back in Titanic, they turned a ship's officer from the hero he was into a coward. his descendants took great exception. understandably. and the insult was totally unnecessary. The coward could have remained nameless, or been named correctly.

Sheeran cooperated on a book as he was getting ready to croak, and told his 17th version of the Jimmy Hoffa Saga. DeNiro, I think, bought the rights. and he & Scorcese ran with it. I can see why, because they could bend the story around a single character. But it was BS. Despite that, a pretty good movie, or at least got the band back together one more time, anyway.

Maybe I take this historical aspect too seriously, maybe you not enough. Who can say? You could also argue that they can always make another truer story of Hoffa's demise, and so what's the harm. Other than the BS.

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If you don't like movies like this, that's fine; your taste is your own and I would have to be some kind of arrogant prick to lecture you on what to like.

I guess it's the title of the thread. It says "another problem", implying it's a problem with the film, but it's not really a problem with the film, at least to me, because the movie isn't trying to be a historical document. It seems to me like criticising it for not having enough good laughs. It's not aiming at comedy. I got why people didn't like the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderland, but a subset of people didn't like it in part, or particularly, because it messed around with Lewis Carroll's story and had a crazy aesthetic. To which I always just thought, "But it's a Tim Burton movie. You didn't know that was going to happen?"

Ultimately, if it bugs you that the movie bends history, fair play. I just don't think it's necessarily a problem with the movie.

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Truth is nobody knows who killed Jimmy Hoffa and why. Most likely not the mob cause his body would have been found.

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according to Michael Franzese, former capo in the Colombo family, JH's body is wet, the hit was ordered out of NY.

he has a lot of credibility, has long been out of the mob, never snitched, and prides himself on being a no-nonsense truth-teller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_HKn2pebMw

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did he say why?

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the why is pretty clear all around. when Nixon (whom hoffa had endorsed and given I think a half or a mill in campaign donations) pardoned Hoffa, he came out trying to take back the presidency of the Teamsters.

however, Fitzsimmons was a rubber stamp for the 5 families, and they did not want Hoffa back. they told him quite plainly to retire and enjoy his golden years. Hoffa persisted. So he got wacked.

this much you will not find anyone seriously arguing against.

now according to Franzese's source, not his own direct knowledge, Hoffa was dumped off-shore.

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