MovieChat Forums > The Irishman (2019) Discussion > I'm sorry I just didn't buy Pacino as Ho...

I'm sorry I just didn't buy Pacino as Hoffa


I felt like I was watching Al Pacino playing a character.

He looks nothing like Hoffa, really didn't carry his mannerism, didn't sound like him.

I keep reading that Pacino killed it.
I didn't see it.

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I'm with you....sadly, I think over the years Pacino's acting has grown stale and repetitive.

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I'm not convinced he was ever one of the greats. When he was young he had passion and intensity, enough to hide his dodgy vocal delivery and one-note delivery. Over the years, the passion and intensity have evaporated, leaving behind a professional but uninspired actor.

Personally, I think Gene Hackman was the best actor of that generation, and he had the grace to retire before he became played-out, unlike De Niro and Pacino.

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Dog Day Afternoon. What a character he embodied! And Serpico? His quiet, unyielding resolve while being both a cop and cool hippie thinker? He is definitely a great. I'll agree that Godfather showcases a fine ability - but the role itself was more of a tortured 'straight guy', while Diane Keaton, Talia Shire and the supporting cast played out the distraught emotions.

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So you're saying Pacinio was good in the 1970's? Sound about right.

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What a ridiculous opinion. And Pacino is leagues above Hackman.

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I see what you guys are saying. Love him for his earlier movies, and he was still great here because there’s just an ease to his acting. He’s a veteran, so he lives and breathes his lines. At the same time, he does ham it up from time to time (e.g. The Godfather 3). Still love the guy though. He can get away with the over-the-topness in my book because Pacino is Pacino. He’s already proven himself. This movie felt like a bunch of old guys trying to stay relevant tbh hahaha but I eat it up. Love these actors.

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I also agree and I believe Joe Pecsi’s acting stole the show.

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That's sometimes the problem with legendary actors... You just see....them...the legendary actor and not the character they're supposed to be playing.

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That's often true, and with Pacino I feel it's been true in every film I've seen him in before The Irishman. This was the first time I wasn't even aware of his acting, or even his being Pacino. He was invisible in the role, and for me, anyway, it's the best thing I've ever seen him do.

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I agree- Al Pacino could have been any actor - he brought nothing to the character, to this movie. Jimmy Hoffa was not a nice guy, yet he portrays him as being an easy-going dude, sort of. I was disappointed.

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I think we're saying different things. I don't think any other actor could have done what Pacino did. He was masterful in an understated way that I've never before seen from him. I was far from disappointed, in fact I was pleasantly shocked as I wasn't sure Pacino could nail Hoffa the way (I think) he did.

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Wow nice troll post. Why do you people have to troll everything

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Some people honestly can't see what's in front of them.

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Everyone agrees Pacino was great just proving you and the OP are trolls.

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..and some people can't read at all.

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While I think Pacino did a great job I mi must say that just because somebody else didn't think he did doesn't mean they are a "troll" everyone has an opinion.

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I'm sorry you fell I am trolling.

I am giving an honest opinion. I did not see Jimmy Hoffa in Al Pacino.
It may have to do with the fact that we have footage of Hoffa, film footage that shows his mannerism. I did not feel Pacino captured it. Like at all. Hoffa seemed spry and it may be a CGI problem that we are all agreeing on. You're putting a young face on the body of a man that moves like an old man.

And have you watched Hustlers with Jennifer Lopez?
Critics have said that this may earn her an Oscar.
As someone whose watched the movie..............................Everyone settle down.
Her performance is not even worth an MTV Award.

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Nobody is saying that and her performance was fine troll

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So by troll post, I'm assuming you mean you don't agree with the post but lack the brain power to provide any reasonable counterpoint to it... So like every good little snowflake you just go yelling "troll" and run away.

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Pretty sure the snowflake would be you because you didn’t like The Irishman because of the actors politics.

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You proved my point. Maybe if you read the comments and criticism that people made you would realize that they have valid points, you however have never bothered to do that nor do you even have a clue as to whether my posts have anything to do with the political views of the actors. Frankly I have no clue as to the political views of any actor in the movie except for dinero and this thread was only discussing Al playing Hoffa... so nice try but you only showed your ignorance.

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Everything said is wrong you don’t like this movie because Scorsese hurt your feelings by calling out your precious little Marvel movies.

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Your batting 1000 dumb ass, I don't waste my time or money on Marvel movies, but keep trying maybe you'll be right once in your life... doubtful, but even a broken clock gets the time right on occasion.

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Triggered must of hit a nerve go watch Marvel

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Yes you did hit a nerve, I get annoyed when idiots get hold of computer.

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The character was Lt. Col. Frank Slade who Pacino has been playing for 25+ years.

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Have you seen Jack Nicholson as Hoffa?

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Well, they're paying for Pacino and De Niro because they're Pacino and De Niro.

I personally think that Pacino has done more interesting work over the past two decades than De Niro. De Niro has just played a lot of gangster-type characters and that's kind of it.

Pacino has stretched more, and played parts in more character-driven movies.

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Probably one of the most uneducated takes I’ve ever seen. De Niro has played many different roles- Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, The Deer Hunter, The King of Comedy, Awakenings, Godfather 2, Cape Fear, and more. These are all completely different roles and different characters. Actually watch an actors filmography before making stupid comments.

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No, you're just too obsessed with him to see anything negative. Yes, De Niro was great through the 70's and 80's, but has fallen into just playing the same role again and again since then.

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Yeah you never seen any of the movies I’ve listed you’re not smart.

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I think it is pretty educational to watch Pacino as Hoffa back to back with Nicholson as Hoffa.

Nicholson went the extra distance of wearing a fake nose that altered his features significantly, but when you get right down to it, you can "see" Nicholson's trademark facial expressions and hear Nicholson's trademark vocal patterns even as he is trying to become "this other guy."

Same thing with Pacino. He's playing Hoffa, but you "get" Pacino. (And about the only thing in common between the Nicholson Hoffa and the Pacino Hoffa is their bad haircuts.)

But this: for awhile there, there were only four "major prestige superstars" in American movies, from the seventies to the 2000s:

Nicholson
Pacino
De Niro
Hoffman

Gene Hackman was a great actor, but, like fellow good actor Michael Caine, he was too willing to take inferior movies (like that one with Dan Ackroyd where they played comedy cops). Clint Eastwood was a huge star, but made a lot of fairly low budget, poorly scripted fare like The Gauntlet and Firefox, along the way. The Dirty Harry sequels weren't as good as the original, and the Orangatan movies made money, but were kind of dumb.

No, for awhile there, if Nicholson, Pacino, DeNiro or Hoffman were in a movie, it practically HAD to be a major, prestige production. Nicholson and Pacino both rather had the same career -- a big swath of key movies in the 70's(Easy Rider in '69, Five Easy Pieces, Carnal Knowledge, The Last Detail, Chinatown, Cuckoo's Nest -- The Godfather, Serpico, Godfather II, Dog Day Afternoon) followed by decades of varying work but always as STARS.
DeNiro was almost SOLELY a "prestige movie man" until around the time he did The Untouchables, Midnight Run, and Backdraft(a period of 4 years, but that's what it took to "commercialize" DeNiro.)

Hoffman didn't work much, but when he did, it counted: The Graduate, Midnight Cowboy, Little Big Man...All the President's Men, Marathon Man....Kramer vs Kramer, Tootsie, Rain Man.


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And as Nicholson, Pacino, DeNiro and Hoffman maintained their top-billed, top-paid superstardom into the 80's and 90's, most of their 70's fellow stars and superstars fell by the wayside. Consider these "prematurely ended star careers":

George Segal, Elliott Gould, Jon Voight, Richard Dreyfuss, Donald Sutherland, Rod Steiger, Roy Scheider, James Coburn, James Caan(Pacino's Godfather co-star)...even, eventually , Burt Reynolds(after five years at Number One.)

One reason that Pacino is such a big name still is that he SURVIVED. And as of right now, Nicholson has been retired for almost ten years and Hoffman is sidelined because of "MeToo" issues. Which leaves -- whaddya know? -- Pacino and DeNiro as about all we have left from their generation, at the level of stardom they have maintained.

Not for much longer though. Their 80's beckon. Sure, Clint Eastwood is still going strong...but will DeNiro and Pacino match him?

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“What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

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You really are an idiot, aren't you? Interbreeding is never a good thing. I said, repeatedly, that his work in the 70's and 80's was great. It is since then that I think he is repeating himself and not stretching like an actor should.

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“What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

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Why are you quoting yourself? So, in addition to everything else, you don't even know how English works.

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Wow you’re an idiot

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I know how to write. I'm good with that.

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It is instructive to compare Pacino as Hoffa to Nicholson as Hoffa, if you're interested.

Nicholson went the extra distance and wore a fake nose that changed his visage, but his overall vocal mannerisms and facial expressions were STILL Nicholson.

So it is with Pacino. These actors are stars in the old fashioned sense of the word: we pay to see them BEING themselves, with whatever trappings the characters can give them in addition.

Pacino and DeNiro are the "survivors" of a group of seventies "prestige superstars" whose numbers were once four:

Hoffman (launched in 1967 with The Graduate.)
Nicholson(launched in 1969 with Easy Rider.)
Pacino(launched in 1972 with The Godfather.)
DeNiro(launched in 1973 with Mean Streets.)

All these decades later, Nicholson has been retired for almost ten years now, and Hoffman has disappeared thanks to "metoo" scandals. Only DeNiro and Pacino are left of this group...and so they will remain important.

There is also this: DeNiro and Pacino have survived from the seventies when many other male stars of the seventies have faded away: George Segal, Elliott Gould, James Caan(Pacino's Godfather co-star), Jon Voight, Richard Dreyfuss. And folks like Burt Reynolds and Roy Scheider faded away before dying.

Gene Hackman was a great actor, but, like fellow great actor Michael Caine, took too many substandard movies(the cop comedy Loose Cannons for Hackman; Jaws IV for Caine) to maintain "prestige" credentials like Pacino and DeNiro.

Clint Eastwood was a big star, but often in cheapjack poorly scripted movies like The Gauntlet and Pink Cadillac.

Warren Beatty and Robert Redford were "prestige leading men" but somehow lacked the Pacino/DeNiro gravitas. Beatty is virtually retired, and Redford now says he is. As are Hackman and Connery.

And so that leaves: DeNiro and Pacino.


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...and Hopkins...I also think Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson are very underrated as actors

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...and Hopkins...

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Hopkins is a special case, I think.

He can be found in a supporting role in 1968's "The Lion In Winter" and yet he didn't "make it" for about one more decade(1978's Magic) and then he floundered through the 80's in films and TV.

And then -- suddenly -- 1991's Silence of the Lambs got him a Best Actor Oscar and something close to superstardom. (He was promoted, I read, to be the "next Sean Connery" a distinguished older star paired with young ones.)

Still Hopkins was "out in the cold" for many of the years that young Hoffman, Nicholson, Pacino and DeNiro were true stars.

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I also think Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson are very underrated as actors

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Oh, sure. There's always a LOT of movie stars out there. Gibson seems to have collapsed his superstar career but is tiptoeing back as an old-guy "name." Cruise is "indestructible" -- a true long lasting star -- but has yet to get an Oscar. there is still time.

I suppose with Pacino and DeNiro its the element of "prestige" that marked their first two decades. DeNiro bailed first(Backdraft, Meet the Fockers, Rocky and Bullwinkle) and Pacino eventually followed. Pacino and Hopkins can be seen in a minor straight to streaming movie called -- I can't remember -- that came out a couple of years ago.

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