MovieChat Forums > Iron Man Three (2013) Discussion > They messed it up with the Mandarin

They messed it up with the Mandarin


I mean in the comics the Mandarin wasn't an actor and he was Asian. Why did they have to mess it up like that?

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Because "Ringo" there was so much more fun than a real terrorist! He was a hoot, and because fake terrorists who do real evil are actually even scarier than real terrorists.

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"and because fake terrorists who do real evil are actually even scarier than real terrorists."

No, dude, that's not really the case. Not after I saw a video of bunch of middle-eastern terrorists killing a kid who was hiding on a roof from them. To me, that is far scarier than a notion that some white guy with a grudge will try to antagonize terrorists through media.

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I think it was a couple things. For starters, they really didn't want to reinforce negative stereotypes, and especially didn't want to jeopardize foreign box office markets. Secondly, I think they were making a very serious point about the nature of the dictators and terrorists that are propped up for us to fear. That they're but figureheads for more sinister secret cabals and powers-that-be behind the curtain. Which has quite likely played out all the way from Hitler to Bin Laden. Regardless the reason, it's just a typical case of Hollywood saying screw the source material and the fans and making the movie they wanted to make. It could have been a good twist. They just REALLY oversold the villain in the marketing. And then the real villain wasn't actually very interesting. I like a good twist. They bungled it. I think, had this film been made after Doctor Strange came out, they would have made it very differently.

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"I think it was a couple things. For starters, they really didn't want to reinforce negative stereotypes,"

That is why MCU cast a black actor in Black Panther to play a comic book character from the comics called "Man-Ape," whose whole shtick is that he is obsessed with the image of gorilla?

"and especially didn't want to jeopardize foreign box office markets."

Should've thought about putting that horrible joke in Spider-Man Homecoming, where a teenage girl says that she wants to have sex with Thor. I'm surprised no one was ringing any bells with that shit. That is far more distubring than putting an Asian villain in your movie. A grown man wrote that joke and put in the script.

"Secondly, I think they were making a very serious point"

Yeah, a very serious point that unfortunately was ruined by a not-so very serious scene.

"about the nature of the dictators and terrorists that are propped up for us to fear."

Very cool, but that is bullshit. Bin Laden was not an actor, and we feared him for a good reason.

"That they're but figureheads for more sinister secret cabals and powers-that-be behind the curtain."

If you genuinely believe that either 9/11 or Bin Laden were a hoax, I have a bad news for you.

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The grand Mandarin debate! Haha

So, why did they “ruined” the character like that? Element of surprise basically. That is what Shane Black said they intended to do as nobody would expect a twist like that, especially in a blockbuster. Ultimately it may have been a disservice to the Mandarin, yet it was kind of a ballsy and interesting take on the character which no one saw coming.

Again, this can sure be considered insulting to the character. But at the same time, I dare say it was a rather brilliant move (even if silly) from a filmmaking standpoint.

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Good point. It seems film fans appreciate the twist whereas Marvel fans dismiss the whole film because of it. I'm a film fan.

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I consider myself both. Besides, Marvel productions that came after IM3 (e.g. The Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, Daredevil, Civil War, and recently Black Panther) have been game-changing, filmmaker-driven, and unlike one another. But while I fully understand why most fans take issue with the Mandarin twist... Kinglsey as the Mandarin would have made one of the best villains in this franchise... I can appreciate it. It’s funny because it’s widely considered too silly more than anything, but certainly it’s mind-boggling.

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"So, why did they “ruined” the character like that?"

Because Shane Black is a really hit-and-miss type of writer.

"Element of surprise basically."

Well, if someone will take a dump on my face when I'm asleep, there will be an element of surprise. But is it a good surprise, though?

"That is what Shane Black said they intended to do as nobody would expect a twist like that,"

Well, Shane Black also cast a registered sex offender in minor roles in three of his last movies, including Iron Man 3. Nobody would expect that as well, I guess.

"Ultimately it may have been a disservice to the Mandarin, yet it was kind of a ballsy and interesting take on the character which no one saw coming."

Ballsy? How a butchering of an awesome, but, unfortunately, not a very well known comic book villain is ballsy? Shane Black even said that no one was expecting the backlash because the Mandarin is not that well known. And how was it interesting if it completely reduces the character to being basically nothing?

"But at the same time, I dare say it was a rather brilliant move (even if silly) from a filmmaking standpoint."

Well, it was definitely silly. Brilliant? Not so much.

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Is it a good surprise though

Depends on who you ask. For instance, there are some people who wouldn’t mind having someone take a dump on their chest (come clean newfamiliardcfanboyname) but to each their own.

And what the hell does Shane Black casting a registered sex offender in his movies (something that wasn’t brought to light until late last year) have to do with this discussion? Nothing. You’re just looking to start shit for no reason (What? did you feel so owned in the Homecoming board? Lol!). But ah! I see you’re on a curious anti-MCU rampage. New user, praising DC to pieces, masking as a follower of Marvel comics to foolishly nitpick changes the MCU has made, and familiarly criticizing MCU films and their fans.... OF COURSE! Makes sense. I could tell where you were coming from the Homecoming post alone. While it’s hard to tell you genuine anti-MCU trolls apart (Queen? DC ho army something? Same numbskulls?), it’s amazingly easy to spot your kind.

I can stoop to your level and call out some people who’ve been involved in DC and DCEU films and have done shady things—but unlike you, I don’t have a pathetic agenda. And as if you would give a fuck about Black’s friend being casted in films. As long as it’s someone involved in an MCU film, you’re going to shame them if they did something wrong. Those in DC who have done questionable things? U you know you’ll stay quiet about that. So with that said, it’s pointless to respond to your rhetorical bullshit.

Causal Moviechat/MCU board readers might think I’m being too assuming here and what not. However, any eagled-eyed poster can tell what’s your purpose on these boards. In that regard, I’m done with ya. But I know like all the other/same MCU haters on this site, you’re going to project hard, troll the hell out of these boards and keep those new names coming like the insignificant, whiny, lifeless nincompoop shithead that you are. Sad. Ah oh, MCU Spidey and his MCU pals... a character a billion times more popular, profitable and beloved than both Batman and Superman haven’t been on the big screen for years (HAHAHA!)... for the motherfucking superhero win.

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It ended up being a cheap gag that ultimately creates a number of plotholes:

1) Killian wants to cover up his actions by creating a fake terrorist to pin it on. Fine, but if he wants to keep things hidden, why create an over-the-top villain type persona? That's the sort of thing that gets noticed. He said "subtlety has had it's day" but that doesn't really explain anything. He is trying to hide and trying to be out in the open at the same time and it's a complete contradiction.

2) If Killian's plan hinges on a fake terrorist character, why use a drugged out idiot who has no idea what's going on? He could have dressed up one of his henchmen, tossed him in front of a camera, and called it a day. Because he has a drugged up idiot as the fake bad guy, then that means when Tony Stark stumbles into the mansion, he'll probably spill the beans right away. A henchman who was in on the plan would be less likely to screw the pooch. You don't *need* an actor to create a scary boogyman. All you need is a face to blame explosions on.

3) Mandarin's actor was "the toast of London" when he played Hamlet on stage. If Killian knew who the guy was, it's a sure bet someone would find out eventually.

4) So Mandarin is the fake leader of the Ten Rings, right? Great... except the Ten Rings are real. We saw them in the first movie. Why didn't they denounce him as a false leader? Why didn't they try to go after Killian? Are we to believe they never existed to begin with? Well then, who were the guys who kidnapped Tony Stark in the first movie?

Aside from that, it wasn't that funny. He seemed like a character from Harold and Kumar. I'm not a fan of the Iron Man comics, so I don't care too much about the Mandarin. The whole twist was idiotic.

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They messed his character up because Disney had a hard-on to market the movie in China and didn't want to offend the Chinese by having the villain be Chinese.

Calling the Mandarin character "overtly racist" (whatever the hell that means), Disney set about making his character nothing more than a front for the REAL villain - some rich, white guy.

Wow... how original!

This is why Disney sucks and also why they've never interfered with another Marvel movie since Iron Man 3. They got so much grief from fans about the Mandarin switcheroo that Marvel had to step in an apologize to the fans. Marvel did this because they actually care about the fans, whereas Disney just cares about marketing.

Look what Disney has done to Star Wars, they've ruined it! They don't care about history or cannon, all they care about is pumping out (year after year) steaming cinematic turds like Rouge One or The Last Jedi. They've proved that you can make a lousy movie, slap the Star Wars label on it and the people will come to see it.

The Mandarin charade was just another example of Disney stepping in and making a mess, like they do so well!

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I always saw Lo-Pan from Big Trouble in Little China as closer to what the Mandarin would be like had it been closer to the comic book origins. I mean the Mandarin like Lo-Pan, is basically an evil Chinese wizard.

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Because most people who went to see the movie never read an iron Man comic in their life.

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Let's also not forget that in the comics, the Mandarin is Iron Man's TOP VILLAIN. Now they've made this joke. Most people who have not read the comics will laugh if anybody talks about this film.

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I honestly thought it was the most ballsy and coraugous thing Marvel has ever done. You woudnt expect that from a studio that wants to play safe on every level just to keep the money coming. That is the kind of thing that generates hate amongs hardcore fans. A applaud Marvel for that.

Now about what you said. I dont think comic book adaptations should play out exacly like the comic books. The Mandarin could still exist in the MCU but with another name maybe. Im not a hardcore Iron Man fan so I dont really care to be brutally honest.

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