"About all the *beep* generalizations. :) Any intelligent person will know that often times people speak in generalizations. Any person to whom the generalization does not apply will not take it personally and understand the complaints as that person's own experience."
I consider myself an intelligent person, karmella; intelligent enough to realize that even when a generalization doesn't apply to me, I can still have a reaction to it. Some sisters may not even realize that not all brothers agree with what this film presents, because so many guys are all too willing to jump on this board and shout, "Amen!" I'm here to represent my ownviews on the subject, and those views happen to be a lot more sympathetic towards the sisters. Now tell me what's so "unfair" about that.
"My impression when hearing some of the heated complaints by men was that they were very badly hurt. I wasn't insulted. My impression of the Tonya character was that she, and her biter friends, were jerks but they were also very badly hurt. Everyone's hurt and pain was laid bare for everyone to see and relate to when applicable. That is something that the relationship media circus very rarely does for *both* men and women."
It's one thing for those men to express their hurt, but it's another thing when the filmmaker stands there instigating with that "A.B.S." nonsense. What good did that do?
"There were plenty of wise and level-headed women featured in the street interviews, so well-adjusted black women were not underrepresented."
The ones who stood out to me were the one in New York who had absolutely nothing good to say about brothers, and the one in Chicago with the funky attitude (claiming to be "a queen" while "dealing" with three different men). There were a few others who might fit the description of being "level-headed," but the one I remember most was the Brown University student, who might as well have been talking to a wall as she spoke with Tim Alexander. He refused to hear anything she had to say, even though she matched wits with him the whole way through. She represented herself the best of any woman I saw in the film. I remember some other women just sitting by their men with blank stares on their faces, as if they had no thoughts of their own.
"It's a cluster-*bleep* out there. Hurt men will say some one-sided things and hurt women will say some one-sided things. For some reason, women's one-sidedness has been getting more air-time."
This is true, karmella, but when men finally get "their chance," we need something more constructive than this film. If we're going to have some "real dialogue," let's put our minds to better use than playing tit-for-tat.
"Tim Alexander's willingness to put this out there speaks more of strength than of weakness."
I'll agree to disagree with you here, karmella. I was very disappointed by what I saw, and I watched every minute of the film, extras included.
STILL RIDIN'! FIGHT THE POWER!
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timalexander
14 years ago
Well if you watched the film and all the extras, you should have clearly see almost every man I interviewed saying "Some black women- NOT ALL are angry" - MYSELF INCLUDED. So what exactly are you talking about? It should be clear to any intelligent person that the film is talking about a certain type of woman - not all women. And it was clearly reviled in the end that it is not only a black woman problem by both white and asian women - it is a problem that is across the board with some women. I am a black man who has spent most of my life with black women, I dealt with what I lived if that is OK with you Sir. And I am currently married to a black woman - and happy. See you in my house Sir. http://www.tiredblackman.com/forums/
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mystee_reyne
14 years ago
Tim, with all due respect to you and your creative efforts with this film, you can't get upset with people who don't receive the film in the way you may have intended. Although you may have had a few men here and there say only some black women are angry and difficult, the overall tone of the film strongly suggests that an overwhelming majority of black women are angry and impossible to deal with. The problem with a film like this is that it perpetuates pre existing stereotypes about black women. So nonblack people watching this film will automatically believe that this is the natural demeanor of black women. And black men who are on the fence, will just throw there hands up and say, who needs the drama, and decide not to date black women altogether. I'm sure this was not your intention. Perhaps you only intended to try to bridge the gap between black men and women. But your attmepts were one sided. The movie did not give a fair enough explanation as to why some black women are angry. Yes you talked about some women having "daddy" issues and dating black men who were abusive or neglectful in the past. But what about the black women who are dealing with troublesome black men or deadbeats in their current relationships? No one is angry for no reason. I just feel that the movie perpetuated stereotypes more than it encouraged dialogue between black men and women. You may not like to hear that. And you may disagree. But that is the opinion of some people who have watched the film. Please don't feel attacked. This is a forum where people come to freely express their thoughts on films.
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Smiling_Jolly_Roger
14 years ago
Tim, one day I might humor you by subjecting myself to sitting through the whole film again just to make sure I didn't miss anything. In the meantime, I'm pretty sure I got the message, and I'm also pretty sure that I heard you behind the camera trying to steer many of your subjects toward your point of view. It was you I heard coin that ridiculous "Angry Black Woman Syndrome" term, and you already know my other gripes.
STILL RIDIN'! FIGHT THE POWER!
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Cymbeline013
14 years ago
Well if you watched the film and all the extras, you should have clearly see almost every man I interviewed saying "Some black women- NOT ALL are angry" - MYSELF INCLUDED. So what exactly are you talking about? It should be clear to any intelligent person that the film is talking about a certain type of woman - not all women. And it was clearly reviled in the end that it is not only a black woman problem by both white and asian women - it is a problem that is across the board with some women. I am a black man who has spent most of my life with black women, I dealt with what I lived if that is OK with you Sir. And I am currently married to a black woman - and happy. See you in my house Sir. http://www.tiredblackman.com/forums/
Well now for a person who claims he isn't angry I'm reading a lot of hostility in your post sir.
A better man would listen--instead you tried to insult the man's intelligence simply because he saw through your attack against black women.
Then you invite him to your turf [your blog]so that he'll probably be surrounded by your yes men/women.
Tim, I'm glad you posted this reply to Roger, because you've shown yourself to be a poor sport. Oh and you can still hate black women even if you're married to one. Yes, I also noticed you said you're happy. However, you didn't say she was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnic6JddWXk&feature=fvw
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14 years ago
[deleted]
Cymbeline013
14 years ago
Full of trash and symps like yourself upholding wrong doing.
Umm...this from a person who visits the Paris Hilton forum. Try heading your own words jackass.
Pepsi.....when they don't have Coke.
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LTUM
14 years ago
tim is not a poor sport, he is justifiably concerned that someone missed the whole point of his art.... i understand. he replied to reach out, not derogate.
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"Where.... can I put my ash?"
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Cymbeline013
14 years ago
Hey Roger, thanks to your thread I decided to not purchase and/or watch this film; thus wasting my money on someone who obviously is a member of the "black women haters" club. I don't have time for that type of nonsense.
The gulf of negativity and distrust between black women, and black men is already wide enough without creating more distance by finger pointing.
Allowing someone to express their hurt [or rejection] through the use of stereotypes--isn't the best way to get your point across; nor will you gain any sympathy for your cause.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnic6JddWXk&feature=fvw
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LTUM
14 years ago
karmella's response to you was so well said there is nothing left to say. if you dont get the film, why don't you bounce yourself off this forum.....
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"Where.... can I put my ash?"
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Smiling_Jolly_Roger
14 years ago
I started this particular thread, so how 'bout you bounce the foock on outta here instead, mayne?
STILL RIDIN'! FIGHT THE POWER!
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LTUM
14 years ago
WITH PLEASURE, YOUNG LADY.
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"Where.... can I put my ash?"
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Smiling_Jolly_Roger
14 years ago
Yeah, I got your "young lady," trick. If you actually know any ladies named Roger, you done told on yo'self, fool!
STILL RIDIN'! FIGHT THE POWER!
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LTUM
14 years ago
i was basing it on how you act....
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"Where.... can I put my ash?"
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Smiling_Jolly_Roger
14 years ago
So you don't believe a black man should stand up for black women when they're unfairly characterized? Is that what you mean? I'm sure that's all you've got, and that's as weak as hell, "man."
STILL RIDIN'! FIGHT THE POWER!
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LTUM
14 years ago
naw thats cool i appreciate you defending our sisters.
i don't think you took tim's film in context, though. not entirely.
i think he did a good job of presenting both sides fairly. many of the comments were from women themselves. it is a two sided issue,a nd men are only one view. (which is the central one he presented).
i disagree that it was unfair. a little ham-fisted and spoonfed and cliche in areas, but not unfair.
lmao how are you sure of anything i have got? you can't assume anything if you dont know me. that is completely irrational
i aint mad at ya
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"Where.... can I put my ash?"
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Smiling_Jolly_Roger
14 years ago
"i don't think you took tim's film in context, though. not entirely."
I'm pretty sure I did. Nothing about it was over my head, that's for sure.
"i think he did a good job of presenting both sides fairly. many of the comments were from women themselves. it is a two sided issue,a nd men are only one view. (which is the central one he presented)."
Are you talking about comments made by the characters, actual people on the street who were interviewed, or both?
"i disagree that it was unfair. a little ham-fisted and spoonfed and cliche in areas, but not unfair."
Okay, tell me what was "fair" about the "Young, Sexy, and Irresponsible" scene. Why should the young woman depicted there bear all the blame if the man willingly accepted her proposition? That's just one example that immediately comes to mind when I think of the "no-fault" position offered by the filmmaker through his main character.
"you can't assume anything if you dont know me. that is completely irrational"
I hope you had a mirror handy when you posted this, because that's exactly what you did when you started all this mess.
STILL RIDIN'! FIGHT THE POWER!
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LTUM
14 years ago
I hope you had a mirror handy when you posted this, because that's exactly what you did when you started all this mess.
may i reminded you that YOU started this mess.
tried to make up with you but, on second thought, i am mad at you. so go flip a kite.
btw the reason you dont get the film is you're too neurotic.... f y i
dont bother responding, you are hereby ignored
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"Where.... can I put my ash?"
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Smiling_Jolly_Roger
14 years ago
Oh well, even though you'll never read this, I'll just get it out of my system anyway. Putting me on ignore because you can't deal with me is one thing, and I respect that, but telling me you're putting me on ignore is just taking the bitch way out.
STILL RIDIN'! FIGHT THE POWER!
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senorjuez
14 years ago
I've seen this film several times and think it was well put together. I didn't interpret the message to be that all black women are angry bitches, nor do I believe that. There's no denying that SOME, NOT ALL black women have anger issues that stem from childhood, past relationships, etc. The media may have exaggerated the stereotype because they know it will get a reaction. Would Tyler Perry be a success if Madea wasn't angry? I don't think so. When the therapist that Tim Alexander consulted with in the film came up with the term Angry Black Woman Syndrome, it showed that there is some cause for concern.
Tim Alexander's main goal was to allow black men to be open about the issues that have affected their relationships with black women. Anger happens to be one of those issues. At the same time he showed them parts of the scripted portion and most of the men could identify with the problems that James, the husband was dealing with. I don't think that Tim expected the level of confirming feedback on the street. Unless he was paying them to say what he wanted to hear, it supports his theory that black women can contribute to the demise of relationships as much as black men can.
To be fair, Tim also interviewed black women. If his goal was solely a crusade against them, he would not have given them an opportunity to tell their sides of the story. Some of these women had attitude, the type that brings on drama, but didn't seem angry. Tonya in Chicago is an example that comes to mind. There were also black women that admitted there is some truth to the topics being discussed, such as anger and being drama queens.
I'll admit the scripted portion was over the top, but not that much. Could it be that those who are offended by the film as a whole are reluctant to admit that it said what needed to be said? Tim Alexander had to have gone into this knowing he was going to offend some of the black community but in taking that risk may help bring about some positive changes.
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LTUM
14 years ago
one more thing
you must be young, im guessing under 25, b/c a seasoned person doesnt assume things the way you do, and aint generally wound that tight.
have a nice day, goodbye
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"Where.... can I put my ash?"
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