Why did sgu fail? my thoughts - Stargate Universe (2009) Discussion

[–] ibarrett1117 9 years ago

I'll have to disagree. SGU was just so different from its 2 predecessors, it turned a lot of peopke of. The sex and gay/lesbian characters had nothing (and shouldn't have had anything) to do with it. It was grittier and just flat out more grown up than people were used to. It made SG-1 and Atlantis look almost childlike.

Another HUGE factor was SYFYs mismanagement of its shows and completely doing away with its popular Sci-Fi Fridays and banishing SGU to Tuesday nights with no lead in to die. All while SYFY began airing wrestling on Friday nights.

They're trying to bring their Friday night lineup back with 12 Monkeys and Helix. But it's just too little too late. It's a shame

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[–] xystophoros 9 years ago

Agreed. Lots of people (including me) are huge fans of science fiction and space opera, but did not like the dumb, low budget previous Stargate series. syFy not only failed to properly promote the show, they completely failed at conveying that this was grown-up Stargate, more like BSG than any earlier Stargate show, and that it had great production values.

THAT was the main reason SGU failed, along with the abovementioned scheduling changes.

If sex and a lesbian character were going to drive audiences away, then why was BSG so successful? Characters like Starbuck and Baltar were constantly having sex in that show and no one complained. Also, the Stargate franchise is more than 20 years old. Society and cultural attitudes have changed a lot since the heyday of Richard Dean Anderson, Kurt Russell, etc.

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[–] lbug-1 9 years ago

I do agree that SyFy failed to properly promote the show. I started watching the original but dropped out after a short while because I personally grew bored with the formula. I never got into Atlantis because it seemed like more of the same. I loved Universe. I believe there was an audience out there who would have embraced the show had they realized it was a reinvention of the franchise and not simply another rehash.

Unfortunately, I think they were stuck in a hard spot. Attempting to distance Universe from the franchise would have meant instant alienation of its ready made fan base on the off chance that they could lure in enough new ones to carry the series. In their eyes, sticking with the fans gave the show a chance at success. It was a no-brainer. However, I'm sure they weren't counting on the fandom to totally reject the show and work very hard to kill it. Universe would have had a better chance if it were rewritten slightly so that it wasn't ever connected to Stargate at all.

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[–] Xaeden 9 years ago

It wasn't a promotional issue, it was a scheduling issue. SGU premiered to big numbers, (for the network) so people had a chance to see what it was and decide whether they liked it or not. Albeit the show did start off slow, so that was a factor. However, they did heavily market it as a BSG replacement, so I don't know why you are under the impression that they did not reach out to new people.

The real issue is that the Sci fi channel placed it in the fall, largely by itself, where it had to contend with heavy competition. Two other previously successful shows died because they were moved there (first BSG and then Atlantis). Yet, for some reason the network refused to give up on their year round programming scheme. It would be one thing if they tried to create a proper programming block in the fall, but they never had enough content to make it work which made the strategy that much more idiotic. So SGU was briefly paired with "Sanctuary," which was fine, it just needed a solid third show to round things out. Instead, SGU's second half of the first season aired alone because "Sanctuary" only had a 13 episode run that year, then SGU ended up alone again on Tuesdays so they could make room for Wrestling (which, btw, gave "Sanctuary" a ratings boost since it remained on that night).

Before the cancellation notice, they paired it with the always horribly rated "Caprica" (for a total of 4 episodes - Caprica's ratings were so bad that they pulled it from the block and burned off the remaining episodes in January) and they even gave it old reruns of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" as a lead-in. It was a tremendous diabolical.

You mentioned that they alienated longtime Stargate fans and there was certainly a backlash within the community, but the ratings were on par with BSG and Atlantis when the network did this same thing to them, so I don't think that had all that much of an impact. Whatever viewers they lost seem to have been replaced with new ones, so it balanced out.

Although obviously the ideal situation is not to create a balance, but to retain longtime viewers while gaining new ones on top of them. For that they should have gone back to summer programming with a proper block that included Atlantis, SGU, and maybe "Sanctuary."

The reason they had so much success when SG-1, Atlantis, and BSG aired together in the summer on Friday nights is because they were exploiting a period that was lacking in competition and they were doing so by creating a solid night of entertainment. There were Stargate fans that complained that BSG was too dark and BSG fans that complained that Stargate was too light, but they would tune in on Fridays and watch each other's shows nevertheless. BSG fans would show up a bit earlier in the night and Stargate fans would stick around for BSG.

Whoever set that up made a brilliant move because they were similar enough to have cross interest, but different enough to attract people who were only fans of one or the other and may not tune into them individually, but would often tune in when they were part of the same block. Then of course some idiot or idiots got the bright the idea that they were doing so well that they would be the perfect shows to launch their year round programming idea with so they split them up and then one by one they all got canceled and nobody at Sci fi seemed to understand why their ratings were tanking and so they did the same thing to SGU.

However, SGU should have been used to reclaim that lost magic. By keeping Atlantis and airing it with SGU they would have introduced longtime Stargate fans to the new series without alienating them. There would've been complaints, but it's Stargate so people would have tuned in to Atlantis and stuck around to watch SGU. Meanwhile, those new people would have been inclined to have watched Atlantis too and with a solid third show they would have a complete block that would attract people who wanted to make a night out of watching science fiction. It is really very simple and yet the people heading up the Sci fi channel during this period clearly couldn't program their way out of a paper bag.

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[–] Mart-13 8 years ago

Excellent analysis.

I've actually connected different dots, but every time I recount my view of these events, the story becomes page-long.

SGU was cancelled right between when MGM entered and exited bankruptcy proceedings. Before then, MGM Holdings was owned by five companies, of which two were competitors, and one of these was/is an owner of syfy. Note that both syfy and MGM contributed half each to SGU's production budget. That's as short as I could make it.

More about MGM's storied history here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM_Holdings

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[–] Xaeden 8 years ago

Yeah, I closely followed the MGM the saga. The thing though is that the ratings for SGU were such at the end that it really wasn't profitable for the Sci Fi Channel to continue with it and MGM had been paying their part for the show throughout. Yes, they didn't declare bankruptcy until after the second season was in production, (and started airing) but there were clear problems before that (they delayed big productions like Skyfall and the Hobbit movies over their floundering finances and yet found money for SGU).

I think it may have played more a role in the cancellation of Atlantis. We didn't know that MGM was struggling at the time, but in retrospect we know that MGM wasn't in a great position to save the show if they so wished to. It's really hard to say because they had enough numbers for syndication and contracts were expiring (or close to expiring - I'm unsure if actors had a standard 5 year or 6 year contract) so MGM didn't have a huge motivation to offer to increase their share of the expenses to make it worthwhile for the Sci Fi channel continue.

However, the writers didn't get the cancellation notice until late and they didn't believe a season 6 was off the table so there seems to have been some sort of back and forth going on behind the scenes. I wouldn't be surprised if that involved negotiations with MGM, but given their finances they weren't in a position to offer to increase their share and pay for SGU as well if that is something that they normally might have wanted to do. I will say that they were very supportive of the franchise in 2006 to the point where they did put more money into things while touting Stargate as important to them because it was their number 2 franchise next to James Bond. So, again, it's possible they normally would have done something like that and their financial state is what got in the way.

I don't let the Sci Fi channel off the hook though. They could have afforded to continue to pay their share, plus the increase that naturally came with a 6th season had they programmed the show better. As I said previously, if I were them I would have moved it back to the summer and built a programming block around it and SGU to help launch SGU. But they were being tremendous idiots during that period.

For SGU, the Sci Fi channel actually spent more money on it than Atlantis because they were trying to promote it as a serious, high production show and, while Atlantis' ratings were on the line, (the 5th season actually saw a very slight increase, overall, over the 4th season) SGU was below the point of return for any show so I can't see it being saved by MGM being in a better financial position. If it was at season 4 when their ratings dipped that low then maybe that would've happened because they'd want that 5th season so they could make good syndication money with it. However, it was too far off from that mark for a even financially stable production company to be willing to work out a deal with a network to keep it afloat.

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[–] o-lO-o-Ol-o 9 years ago

Universe would have had a better chance if it were rewritten slightly so that it wasn't ever connected to Stargate at all.

If they had slightly rewritten it and attempted to disassociate it with Stargate, it would've only resulted in people complaining about it being a Stargate ripoff.

It would've required a major rewrite - really, a very different initial writing, as there's no way they'd go through the trouble of rewriting all of that - the new material would have to completely exclude all associated story elements to pull it off.

The majority of the story content in SGU is associated with the previous productions. Remove those components and you'd have only the skeleton of a series.

Here's a look at just the basic premise of the show, seemingly excluding Stargate associations:

* A mishmash of people are lost and stranded in the depths of the universe.

* They struggle with the elements (air, water, food, etc.).

* They go up against each other then find a way to get along.

* They team up against others who oppose them.

* They try to go home and fail.

* They have a brief encounter with their descendants.

Now, take another look at those points. Even they can be either partially or in some cases completely associated with previous Stargate productions:

"A mishmash of people are lost and stranded in the depths of the universe."
- SG (most of the movie)
- SG1 (various episodes)
- SGA (various episodes)

"They struggle with the elements (air, water, food, etc.)."
- SG (sandstorm)
- SG1 (various episodes)
- SGA (various episodes)

"They go up against each other then find a way to get along."
- SG (not much but some conflict early on)
- SG1 (various episodes)
- SGA (various episodes)

"They team up against others who oppose them."
- SG (Ra)
- SG1 (several episodes & both movies)
- SGA (several episodes)

"They try to go home and fail."
- SG (no 7th symbol until end of movie)
- SG1 (various episodes)
- SGA (various episodes)

"They have a brief encounter with their descendants."
- SG (not descendants but they share the same ascendants)
- SG1 (various episodes, they are the descendants meeting their ascendants)
- SGA (various episodes, they are the descendants meeting their ascendants)

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[–] lbug-1 9 years ago

I see your point. As I said, I didn't stick with SG1 or watch SGA and so wasn't aware of all the possible connections. I assumed humans could simply find a ship like that and end up leaving in it due to some unexpected event. That the rest would take care of itself. I spoke without giving that part much thought.

It was depressing though, to come here and find SGU's message board full of diehard haters this many years later, still calling Universe a mistake that killed SGA. It's pretty sad.

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[–] o-lO-o-Ol-o 9 years ago

SGU is a good show. The producers made some bad decisions but, overall, it's still good.

The method of seeking solutions to serious problems or complex issues in SG1 and SGA were, more often than not, met with extremely simplistic efforts. A scientist would pull a last-minute move that would save the world (or galaxy or universe), the main characters would fight their way out of an impossible situation and make it home safe at the last minute, etc.

None of that happened in SGU, and that is actually one of the greatest qualities of that series.

I mentioned this in a thread on the SGA board, the same applies here:

It is strange that you see so many negative threads. The board has hardly any at all from my view. Although, I also have over a thousand usernames on my ignore list to help cut out the trolls, negative nancies, etc.

Just like SG1 & SGA, SGU is a fun show. Once a viewer gets into the right frame of mind for the style and fully accepts that it is a very different style than the previous productions, it's easy to enjoy it.

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[–] hakan_lovdahl2 7 years ago

Universe would have had a better chance if it were rewritten slightly so that it wasn't ever connected to Stargate at all.

Exactly my thoughts after watching the first 5-6 episodes of SGU.

I loved the idea behind a crew of people with no control over there ship or where they are going. Far, far away from earth in a void with nothing previously explored. That's just wow!.. This could be the best sci-fi show in years :)

But then the Stargate gadgets was brought in to the story. Little black circle things that made it possible for any of the crew to travel back to earth and visit friends and family. People back on earth giving orders to the people on the ship and telling them what to do next. (Is if that would have mattered at all for the crew stranded 10000000000 zillion light years away). Lame :/

So this would have been a superb show on it's own. The Stargate gadgets and the attempt to plead to old Stargate fans backfired completely. If they wanted to make a show for the SG1-SGA fans they should have done a SGN. Stargate Next! - More one liners. Even sillier jokes. Absolutely laughable species made of plywood.. And everything told in a nice, family friendly tone. :P

---------------------------------
* My God!.. Its Full of Stars! *

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[–] Mart-13 8 years ago

The short of the whole debacle is, that SGU did not fail on its merits, but that it was failed. Sadly.

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[–] ultimatelotrcrossover 7 years ago

Failed? By whom? It had no likeable characters, weird and unpleasant filming and no humor to lighten the tone.

Face it, SGU failed on its merits.

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[–] EmperorOfLatveria 9 years ago

Marketed as a replacement to battlestar.
Failed in that respect, didn't live up to the hype.

Marketed as next one in Stargate Saga (the reason why I watched it, being a huge stargate fan).
Failed to capture that audience as well, because it was too foreign to the original shows.

It started slow as well, then time slots became an issue - but I don't think it would ever have the fanbases that were so devoted to the other shows mentioned previous, but it would have had to build up its own for the most part.

I for one was disappointed in the new show. It never captured that sense of wonder I had from the original stargates, and instead of overtones, we got to focus on the characters themselves more, needless relationships that were never the driving force in any stargates. That was never the type of thing that made something like SG-1 dynamite. I watched it mainly as an honorary thing because I was such a big fan of the stargate universe already, and perhaps it might keep going until we got a better stargate show. That didn't turn out that way though...

These are some of the main reasons why it got cancelled me thinks.

Also, as for the commentator up top saying the first two stargate shows were childlike, I disagree entirely. What I think they were is much lighter toned. Even when captured and tortured, Jack O'niell was funny, and cracked jokes even during the process. It was always light, and that is what made it good.
Being light in tone does not make it less mature at all. I have seen darker tones be quite childish. Unless you think it is the relationships themselves that made it adult when referring to SGU. But that would mean that all the stupid HS drama, simply because it has all those elements is mature. Is it? I think not.

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[–] Calaverasgrande 9 years ago

Nobody really cares about the gay characters or sexual hijinks. In fact I think that is a ratings boost for most TV series. I certainly don't think it hurt the ratings of the show. Of all the sci-fi fans I know personally I'd say more Science Fiction fans are gay or lesbian than the general population.
Personally I thought one of the main problems with this show was that episodes failed to stand on their own, and instead required a viewer to had seen all previous episodes. This made it a hard show to get into if you had missed the previous half of a season as it wasn't streaming on Hulu or anywhere else.

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[–] excalibur1814 8 years ago

It featured FAR, FAR too much angst and people arguing. It was damn boring.

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[–] shannon651 8 years ago

Plainly speaking!? It was boring and sucked!

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[–] wazzaa-1 8 years ago

lesbians and sex are drama stuff if you like that there's grays anatomy or whatever stargate was family friendly until this show, so obviously fans of the other two shows would leave and since the show wasn't good enough to attract the same number of new fans from BSG which is what they seemed to be trying to do it just couldn't sustain itself.

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[–] andriellerhillis 8 years ago

First of all, I think part of what made SG1 and Atlantis so popular was the fun, campiness. If I wanted a space drama that was all heavy and serious, I would watch BSG. Neither SG1 or SGA took themselves too seriously. How many times did Sam or Daniel joke about how often SG1 was saving the world? How often was McKay the butt of the joke? It was the light-hearted, comedic feel of these two shows that made them so popular.

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[–] lion7718 8 years ago

I'm not gonna get into technical issues & such, but as a viewer...
I think they relied on the stones too much, way too much.
They're in space, stay in space. If you need to use a stone, stay in space, I don't care what's going on on Earth. The Lucian Alliance angle was a waste of time. JMO

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[–] wartengu 8 years ago

It failed because it was shitte, that's why.

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[–] freys2 8 years ago

SGU didn't fail because it was too dark, or because of scheduling; if you really want to watch something you'll find a way. The only way in my mind that the network really failed SGU was possibly because back in '09 they didn't completely take into account the viewers from services like iTunes or Amazon when evaluating ratings. I know I personally never actually watched the show on air, but rather just downloaded the episode the next day.

It wasn't canceled because it was too much like BSG or too little like SG-1 either. SGU failed simply because the actual plot--I mean the sci-fi plot, not the soap opera plot-- was entirely too slow-paced. The "message," the Lucian Alliance, the creepy Blue Aliens and the Terminators in space were all entertaining (albeit unoriginal) plotlines. But the main plot points of the entire two seasons could have been finished in one season if the 10 - 12 episodes of filler in each season were cut out. I'm not talking about nixing the character development altogether. But I think they went overboard with the characters, in some cases going over the same background for each character multiple times. How many different ways does the audience need to be shown that all the young main characters had daddy issues and the older main characters had romance issues? That's all very stereotypical to me, but in any case the writers could have devoted just one episode to develop each character and left it at that, but we got more soap opera than sci-fi. Don't get me wrong, I love space operas. Farscape is my favorite sci-fi series of all time, but even with all the romance and character development in that show, the sci-fi plot always came first.

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