Women in this movie


Let me first say that I am not a person who looks for misogyny in movies. That said, the way the women in this movie are portrayed is really sad. They are either:

a) gold-digging opportunists
b) intimidated, bitter and stupid
c) in total mouth-breathing awe

There isn't a single woman in this film who is written as the guys' equal. This is a theme in Sorkin's universe though, so it isn't surprising.

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I don't think Albright's that bad of a character. she is bitter, yes, but with good reason since his ex is a moron

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I'd agree with you, except that in the opening scene Mark talks to her like he thinks she's a moron. He condescends.

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yeah but Mark talks to anyone with a condescending tone, besides Sean Parker who he thinks he's god or something

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Mark Zuckerburg was shown throughout the whole movie to not have respect for anybody, even his closest friend. He spoke with Erica the same condescending way he spoke with everyone, through the whole film. Mark treats everyone equally (except Sean Parker, as a previous poster said). That's his character. Why is it worse if it's a woman he's speaking to?

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Even though the audience is supposed to think Mark is a condescending jerk, you have to also acknowledge that he's right: Harvard is superior to BU. Men are portrayed as superior from the outset, women inferior. Even Mark's classmates at Harvard are portrayed as gold diggers and/or in awe of the guys. Women who got into Harvard-- coming from their own family money, potential and intelligence, were still portrayed as gold diggers and groupies. Such a blatant barrage of misogyny from Sorkin that was utterly baseless.

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[deleted]

Recognizing reason behind the actions isn't the same thing as defending that action. Zuckerberg is portrayed as socially retarded and he just lacks the capability of understand his own behavior and how it affects others.


Unless you can use this same excuse for Sorkin's treatment of women, it isn't sufficient. And before you try, just know you can't. I've studied women in this film from every angel possible and believe me, there is no justification for the way Sorkin portrayed the women in this film. The book that the film was modeled after, for instance, described regular sex in the bathroom stall, not oral sex. No woman ever lit any of their stuff on fire. And I'd be willing to bet my last dollar no model ever said, "If you guys are gonna discuss business, we're gonna need some SHOTS!"

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[deleted]

What does that have to do with the movie's portrayal of HER? Clearly, they are showing his lack of social skills as well as his arrogance. Did you think the movie was showing that she WAS a moron, or just that Zuck treated her like one?

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I don't think Albright's that bad of a character. she is bitter, yes, but with good reason since his ex is a moron


She's not a bad character, but she is inferior to Zuckerberg, as he reminds her in the first scene. While the audience is supposed to see him as a jerk, we're also supposed to deep down acknowledge that Harvard is better than BU. Even from the outset it is established that the man is superior. Even his female classmates at Harvard are portrayed as gold diggers and/or in awe of the guys.

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That scene made me think the opposite. That Mark is a jerk and his girlfriend is nice.
Also, Mark is kind of a genius, he was also a lot smarter than anyone in the movie including the Winklewi, Eduardo or Sean Parker. It is only natural that he's smarter than his girlfriend.

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Very well. But you're missing the point that no one part of the movie was offensive to women: it was the sum of all the parts. All of it together was. In each instance the women were portrayed as inferior to the men. It's a recurring theme in the film. In fact, Sorkin admitted the portrayal was intentional, stating:

"I get it. It’s not hard to understand how bright women could be appalled by what they saw in the movie but you have to understand that that was the very specific world I was writing about. Women are both prizes an equal. Mark’s blogging that we hear in voiceover as he drinks, hacks, creates Facemash and dreams of the kind of party he’s sure he’s missing, came directly from Mark’s blog.

With the exception of doing some cuts and tightening (and I can promise you that nothing that I cut would have changed your perception of the people or the trajectory of the story by even an inch) I used Mark’s blog verbatim. Mark said, “Erica Albright’s a bitch” (Erica isn’t her real name–I changed three names in the movie when there was no need to embarrass anyone further), “Do you think that’s because all B.U. girls are bitches?” Facebook was born during a night of incredibly misogyny. The idea of comparing women to farm animals, and then to each other, based on their looks and then publicly ranking them. It was a revenge stunt, aimed first at the woman who’d most recently broke his heart (who should get some kind of medal for not breaking his head) and then at the entire female population of Harvard.

More generally, I was writing about a very angry and deeply misogynistic group of people. These aren’t the cuddly nerds we made movies about in the 80’s. They’re very angry that the cheerleader still wants to go out with the quarterback instead of the men (boys) who are running the universe right now. The women they surround themselves with aren’t women who challenge them (and frankly, no woman who could challenge them would be interested in being anywhere near them.)

And this very disturbing attitude toward women isn’t just confined to the guys who can’t get dates.

I didn’t invent the “F–k Truck”, it’s real–and the men (boys) at the final clubs think it’s what they deserve for being who they are. (It’s only fair to note that the women–bussed in from other schools for the “hot” parties, wait on line to get on that bus without anyone pointing guns at their heads.)

These women–whether it’s the girls who are happy to take their clothes off and dance for the boys or Eduardo’s psycho-girlfriend are real. I mean REALLY real. (In the case of Christy, Eduardo’s girlfriend so beautifully played by Brenda Song, I conflated two characters–again I hope you’ll trust me that doing that did nothing to alter our take on the events. Christy was the second of three characters whose name I changed.)
I invented two characters–one was Rashida Jones’s “Marylin”, the youngest lawyer on the team and a far cry from the other women we see in the movie. She’s plainly serious, competent and, when asked, has no problem speaking the truth as she sees it to Mark. The other was Gretchen, Eduardo’s lawyer (in reality there was a large team of litigators who all took turns deposing witnesses but I wanted us to become familiar with just one person–a woman, who, again, is nobody’s trophy.

And Rooney Mara’s Erica’s a class act.
I wish I could go door to door and make this explanation/apology to any woman offended by the things you’ve pointed out but obviously that’s unrealistic so I thought the least I could do was speak directly to you.

Ken–Thanks for your really nice words and for giving me a chance to apologize again for my remarks back in 2005. Obviously a star writer on one of the best comedies of all time doesn’t need to prove his credentials as a “real” comedy writer.

Aaron Sorkin"


So, I dare any one of you now to dispute that the story was written from the misogynist's perspective. Sorkin admitted it himself, claiming he did it for the integrity of the story. The trouble is, I know for a fact he exaggerated at least two of the most negative portrayals (the bathroom BJ was originally regular intercourse as described in Saverin's book, The Accidental Billionaires, and also described in the book was his unpleasant experience with a clingy ex who called him several times, but never lit anything on fire as Sorkin had her do.)

The trouble is that despite the creation of a tiny tack-on part given to Rashida Jones, Sorkin failed miserably at providing any counterbalance to the abominable portrayals of women. So he can claim he did it because of Zuckerberg's misogyny all he wants but the fact of the matter is, Zuckerberg went on to hire Sheryl Sandberg as COO while Sorkin's Rashida Jones barely had half a page of dialogue and what was shown was more stereotypical "female role," than anything strong and powerful. (giving him relationship advice? really..) And the Erica character, again, while not negative, was still inferior to the men.

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Every movie needs a strong female character just to prove that it's not misogynistic?
I don't see your point. This movie is about a lot of self-important *beep* who try to change the world and the movie plays them to fool, so it is obvious that they are not right.
Women inferior to men in this movie? Why? Thye're a bunch of losers, I mean the guys. They can't be any more inferior to them.

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Every movie needs a strong female character just to prove that it's not misogynistic?


I thought I made it clear that I don't believe the solution is creating a cheesy token go-girl tack on character (like Rashida Jones was supposed to be.) It comes across as disingenuous anyway.

I just don't believe Sorkin's portrayal of women. You guys keep wanting to say that the truth is his defense, there's no strong female character because none existed in the real story, but that doesn't excuse the way he portrayed those who do exist in the story. I've listed two examples of Sorkin exaggerating to make women look worse than the actual people they were based off of (the infamous bathroom scene and the girl lighting stuff on fire). I don't believe a model ever declared, "If you guys are going to talk business, we're gonna need some SHOTS!" I *hope*, though unfortunately wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong, that interns were never used as shot trays (any company can get into a ton of trouble for that, btw), and I don't believe that all the co-eds they encountered at Harvard behaved like gold diggers and groupies. Let's be clear: Harvard takes only the best and the brightest. It's also ridiculously expensive, so these women would already be used to being around wealth and power. I don't believe it would be enough to send them over the moon, down to their knees or drop their panties the way it's portrayed in the film, especially since Facebook didn't get huge until Mark dropped out and moved to Cali anyway. So those starry-eyed Harvard co-eds are just completely unbelievable to me as characters. I think that Sorkin was not nearly subtle enough in conveying that these nerdy boys were suddenly given different treatment. That type of "let me really spell it out for my dumb audience" is really insulting to us all. I believe he exaggerated the negative portrayal of women without sufficient counterbalance. That doesn't mean, as I stated above, creating a token female character where none existed, but rather being a little more realistic and at least toning it down on the negative portrayal.

Let me just conclude by saying it was uncomfortable to watch women behave that way, and even more aggravating when I found out that the worst of it was exaggerated by Sorkin himself. Even more frustrating still when you realize how unnecessary it was to prove his point. The girl lighting his stuff on fire was a storyline that went absolutely no where, and the BJ in the bathroom..really??? That wouldn't have been just as effective if left in tact as described in the REAL story, Saverin's book where he describes conventional intercourse in the stall with her??? Because seriously that would've sufficed in getting the message across. No need to be disgusting, and all of you claim "truth" is the only defense needed? Well that wasn't even the truth so where's your defense now?

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I don't believe that all the co-eds they encountered at Harvard behaved like gold diggers and groupies. Let's be clear: Harvard takes only the best and the brightest. It's also ridiculously expensive, so these women would already be used to being around wealth and power. I don't believe it would be enough to send them over the moon, down to their knees or drop their panties the way it's portrayed in the film, especially since Facebook didn't get huge until Mark dropped out and moved to Cali anyway. So those starry-eyed Harvard co-eds are just completely unbelievable to me as characters. I think that Sorkin was not nearly subtle enough in conveying that these nerdy boys were suddenly given different treatment. That type of "let me really spell it out for my dumb audience" is really insulting to us all.


Totally agree!

It's ridiculous that we're expected to believe that women that attend Harvard would act this way.

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Where does Eduardo's lawyer fall into this?

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Where does Eduardo's lawyer fall into this?


Yeah.. remember that great professional scene she had? Yeah, me either. All I remember is her counseling Mark on his relationship. I guess that's why she went to law school. So she could console lovesick boys.


From what I recall the female scenes throughout the entire movie were pretty much this:

Mark: Hey, gf of mine, you're dumb. Yeah I'm a jerk but no one can argue with the fact that I go to Harvard and you go to BU.

___

Every female classmate at Harvard: Omg you guys are rich? Why am I still on my feet?? I should be on my knees!

____

:::I'm on my knees:::

____

Hey let's have a boy's club and make a billion dollars. Okay cool fair enough. But wait, we can't jerk each other off, we need chicks.

____

Hey this is great, look at all these sluts. Hey let's go to California where there's even more sluts. We'll hire female interns so we can ...

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DRINK SHOTS OFF THEIR BARE STOMACHS!!! Thank God for co-eds. They're so useful.

____

Oh look, It's Justin Timberlake waking up with a girl in booty shorts.

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Oh now we're in the offices of Facebook. Don't forget to sprinkle some girls in there for realism. NO don't give them any lines.

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Sorkin's thinking: "It may not be obvious enough that women are useless when it comes to business and are pretty much useless anytime they're standing upright. We have to drive the point home by having a model blurt out: "If you guys are gonna talk business we're gonna need some SHOTS!"

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Oh.. now we've ticked off some people, we better give Saverin a female lawyer with very few lines or intelligent contributions just so our defenders online can have something to point to when we're accused of misogyny.

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Oh look! Rashida Jones is in a suit sitting in the deposition room. I can't wait til she has a great scene....

::: Credits roll :::

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The movie also portays men as jerks.
- They're looking at women's photos on the internet and ranking them.
- Mark is obviusly a jerk.
- They're fighting each other and whining about who invented the facebook, and talk about how much money they will be making when the whole thing is still in its infant state.
- Sean Parker is a huge *beep* Self-centered, self-important clown.
It goes both ways.

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The movie also portays men as jerks.
- They're looking at women's photos on the internet and ranking them.
- Mark is obviusly a jerk.
- They're fighting each other and whining about who invented the facebook, and talk about how much money they will be making when the whole thing is still in its infant state.
- Sean Parker is a huge *beep* Self-centered, self-important clown.
It goes both ways.


Actually that's a decent point. The guys are portrayed as negatively, but honestly only a mature audience will see the guys as negative characters. At least they're smart and successful, even if they are douches and jerks.

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There are some women who are shown to be intelligent and proactive, like the Rashida Jones character (the young lawyer who's a jury expert) and Albright (God, she just SHUTS HIM DOWN in the second scene they have). But the two Asian girls--watching them is cringe-inducing. They are just gross stereotypes of the sl*** Asian types (and one is bats** crazy as well). Sorkin got a bad rap for the misogyny in this movie but it's deserved. He thought he was portraying misogyny (and of course he's doing that as well) but he fell into the trap.

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You do know that no women were involved in the creation of Facebook? The fact there were any women in this movie at all should be good enough for you.

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You do know that no women were involved in the creation of Facebook? The fact there were any women in this movie at all should be good enough for you.


That's the whole thing though: Don't have women at all if every representation is as negative or inferior.

I'm sure somewhere along the way there were a couple of female classmates that didn't want to wrap their l*** around their d****. I bet there was an intern with a good idea at some point. Zuckerberg isn't a misogynist, just ask Sheryl Sandberg, the COO of Facebook. yes I know that she wasn't during the time frame this movie was written about, but it shows that Sorkin's misogyny was his own, not Zuckerberg's. And as long as we're sticking to the facts as they were at that time, how about reading Saverin's The Accidental Billionaires. You know the infamous bar bathroom scene? That was originally regular intercourse, not oral. Gee...I wonder why Sorkin changed it to the most demeaning thing possible??????????????? Let's think about that for a second....Oh, but we're just lucky to have had women in this movie at all 

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Oh god, don't get me started on Christy Lee--she's not only one of the most sexist (and racist) female characters I have ever seen, but just one of the worst characters of all time, irrespective of gender. The scene where Christy burns her scarf from Edward looked like something out of a trashy soap opera.

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Ah. I don't see it. I saw some college girls having fun, a few lawyers, and some groupies I guess..

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It's a true story. In real life, the important people were all males. The only excuse to have prominent females would have been if they were related to these males or dating them. Other choice would have been to have a film with zero females, which you would still complain about. In real life there is no female that was an equal to a Sean Parker or a Mark Zucherberg. Did you miss the fact that all the founders and significant parties were men? That's like bitching that in Gladiator, the only women of significance were either related to or a love interest of an important man. What did you want? For them to invent a fictional female co-inventor for political correctness?

Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad

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Other choice would have been to have a film with zero females, which you would still complain about.

Guess again. Don't have women at all if every representation is as negative or inferior. It's 1000 times more insulting to have women there only for decoration and male gratification.

In real life, the important people were all males.


Yeah, because Sorkin took 0 liberties in adapting Saverin's story. YEAH RIGHT!!!! He took liberties. For instance: in Saverin's The Accidental Billionaires, you know the infamous bar bathroom scene? That was originally regular intercourse, not oral. Gee...I wonder why Sorkin changed it to the most demeaning thing possible??????????????? Let's think about that for a second....

In real life there is no female that was an equal to a Sean Parker or a Mark Zucherberg.


Yeah. There was also no insane woman lighting Saverin's stuff on fire. But Sorkin took liberties with that one.

I'm sure somewhere along the way there were a couple of female classmates that didn't want to wrap their l*** around their d****. I bet there was an intern with a good idea at some point. Zuckerberg isn't a misogynist, just ask Sheryl Sandberg, the COO of Facebook. Yes I know that she wasn't during the time frame this movie was written about, but it shows that Sorkin's misogyny was his own, not Zuckerberg's.

What did you want? For them to invent a fictional female co-inventor for political correctness?


No, but it's easy for you to dismiss our views without thoroughly hearing them or trying to understand them. All I wanted was for them to either not portray women at all, or portray them in a more balanced way. Every.single.female was inferior to the men or a completely negative portrayal.

I haven't seen the movie in 6 years but from what I recall the female scenes went like this:

Mark: Hey, gf of mine, you're dumb. Yeah I'm a jerk but no one can argue with the fact that I go to Harvard and you go to BU.

___

Every female classmate at Harvard: Omg you guys are rich? Why am I still on my feet?? I should be on my knees!

____

:::I'm on my knees:::

____

Hey let's have a boy's club and make a billion dollars. Okay cool fair enough. But wait, we can't jerk each other off, we need chicks.

____

Hey this is great, look at all these sluts. Hey let's go to California where there's even more sluts. We'll hire female interns so we can ...

____

DRINK SHOTS OFF THEIR BARE STOMACHS!!! Thank God for co-eds. They're so useful.

____

Oh look, It's Justin Timberlake waking up with a girl in booty shorts.

____

Oh now we're in the offices of Facebook. Don't forget to sprinkle some girls in there for realism. NO don't give them any lines.

___

Sorkin's thinking: "It may not be obvious enough that women are useless when it comes to business and are pretty much useless anytime they're standing upright. We have to drive the point home by having a model blurt out: "If you guys are gonna talk business we're gonna need some SHOTS!"

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Oh.. now we've ticked off some people, we better give Saverin a female lawyer with very few lines or intelligent contributions just so our defenders online can have something to point to when we're accused of misogyny.

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Oh look! Rashida Jones is in a suit sitting in the deposition room. I can't wait til she has a great scene....

::: Credits roll :::

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welcome to anthropology 101. The human ape is a sex-for-resources species. In real life, women get on their knees for men for merely being rich. Take it up with the universe for decreeing that women need men for protection and resources, while men do not need women, but for reproduction (sex).

Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad

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In real life, women get on their knees for men for merely being rich.


Some do. Some don't. Some men get on their knees for rich women, too. Have you seen Amy Schumer's boyfriend? I doubt if he would've dated her 6 years ago..just sayin.

Take it up with the universe for decreeing that women need men for protection and resources,


That's untrue. Women can fire a gun just as well as a man can and women are actually enrolling in colleges and going on to have higher paying jobs at a higher rate than men these days. Welcome to the 21st century, you seem a bit stuck in a different time.

but for reproduction (sex).



..and that's a pretty big "but." So you do need women. But sex and reproduction are not the same thing. For instance, I'd bet (hope/pray/etc) that when you have sex, you use contraceptives. So it's not for reproduction.

I do agree with you, though, that reproduction is the only time when the genders need each other. Everything else can be substituted to a large extent. However, that substitution goes much better for women than it does for men. If a woman wants to exist without a man but still reproduce, she can merely buy a jar of his manjuice, which is easy to extract and therefore sperm clinics have that stuff by the boatloads. Everything else she needs (which is a lot more,) the woman has at her own disposal. Uterus, egg, birth canal, milk ducts. You get the idea. In order for a man to reproduce without a woman, he has to get an egg (much harder to come by,) and a WOMB to incubate for 9 months (much, MUCH harder to come by!) Not to mention sexual gratification: easy for a woman to simulate a man by simple toys available at any kinky store. Simulating the feeling of being with a woman, authentically, is much, much harder for men to do.

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Women today still need men for resources and protection. A woman is not "independent" when she works and buys food at the store. The building she "works" at was put there by men, and she uses pencils, pens, chairs, clothing, computers etc, that were fashioned into their current forms with machines created and maintained by men, using resources that men gather, powered by electricity that men generate with coal that they extract. After leaving their man-made "jobs" (sitting in air conditioned rooms on comfortable chairs while doing make-work), they go to the store where they can acquire food that was placed there by men and their machines. Same for protection. The police force is literally a bunch of men with weapons created by other men. Women would be in the Stone Age if every man decided to not show up to work for the next month. What would happen if every woman decided not to show up to work in the next month? They would simply be replaced by other men. Long story short, it's a bit intellectually dishonest to claim that because of civilization (created and maintained by men), women "don't need men for resources/protection". All women have done is replace a singular in-home man with a bunch of abstract men via the state. All they have done is pushed society in a direction where these services (protection and resources) are still provided by men for women, but where women don't have to contribute anything of equal value in return (hypergamy). Also, the guy with the fat rich girlfriend is the exception to the rule, not the norm. By your logic, I could claim that the statement "NBA players are not taller than old Asian ladies" is false, because the world's tallest old Asian lady is taller than the worlds shortest NBA player.

Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad

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Let me first say that I am not a person who looks for misogyny in movies. That said, the way the women in this movie are portrayed is really sad. They are either:

a) gold-digging opportunists
b) intimidated, bitter and stupid
c) in total mouth-breathing awe

There isn't a single woman in this film who is written as the guys' equal. This is a theme in Sorkin's universe though, so it isn't surprising.


Yep. It's a disturbing portrayal, to say the least. Sadder still that men watch it and honestly don't see a problem.

I leaned over about 3/4 of the way through the movie to my date and said, "One woman better have an intelligent contribution before this movie ends." When the credits rolled he said, "You didn't get your wish." But then went on to say that he didn't notice a problem. In true ignorant form, he texted me days later saying, "You were right" with a link to a New York Times article bashing the movie for sexism against women. So... I wasn't right until my opinion was substantiated?

At any rate, Sorkin didn't even try to hide it this time. The model literally said, "If you guys are gonna talk business, we're gonna need some SHOTS!!!" I just couldn't even believe how ridiculous his portrayal of women was!

Also, the scene in the bathroom ..yeah you know the one I mean. It had to be as degrading as possible... But that was actually based off of a part in Saverin's book The Accidental Billionaires but it was regular intercourse, not oral. No mistaking why Sorkin made it as demeaning as possible.

Then there was the crazy ex lighting his stuff on fire... I mean... pointless and went no where other than, "yeah and when women aren't being brainless sluts they're being crazy!"

Literally every woman was there for decoration and male gratification.

Get into therapy, Sorkin. You've got issues brother

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I've seen literally hundreds of movies that portray men worse than the women portrayed in Social Network.
In fact the only character with a real conscience and real morals is Erica Albright. All the others characters are either jerks or wannabees. Girls and boys included.

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Actually, you weren't right, despite your "argument" being "substantiated". An echo chamber isn't evidence. Reality isn't subject to "channels of authority" (governments, religions, academia, media, etc). Just like governments, religions, academia, media etc held incorrect beliefs in the last, due to X and Y, it is also the case in the "current" year. The next Steve Jobs or Zuckerberg will also be a man. This is basic biology and statistics.

Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad

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One woman better have an intelligent contribution to this IMDB thread. I guess the writers of this thread are sexist for not including any intelligent contributions from females.

Please excuse any typos, this was typed on an iPad

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In other words, its a realistic depiction of women.

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One of the main lawyers was a female.

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There isn't a single woman in this film who is written as the guys' equal. This is a theme in Sorkin's universe though, so it isn't surprising.


What about Demi Moore's character Jo in A Few Good Men?

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