MovieChat Forums > Treme (2010) Discussion > As a fan of the wire, will I like this s...

As a fan of the wire, will I like this show?


I first heard of The Wire last summer and am currently watching it through a second time. Watched half of the pilot episode of this last week, but finals got in the way. It seemed interesting and the music was cool, John Goodman was great in the scenes I saw, but the apparent main character, played by Steve Zahn seemed pretty annoying. Anyways, wanted your thoughts on how the narrative and characters compare to The Wire's complexity and realism, what the major drawing points of it are, whether David Simon can say new and interesting things in the show, and what the the tone of the show is compared to The Wire (e.g. understated realism, with very painful moments and a couple uplifting ones sprinkled in, or more of a typical, there's a solution for every problem or at least a measure of catharsis if you care enough for the character, but if something bad happens, you can be sure it will be played up etc.).

reply

Nope

reply

Depends on what you liked about The Wire. If you were into it for the crime scene, characters like Omar and Stringer, that's not what this show is about. There's crime in it, but just one main character who's a cop, and none who are criminals. The protagonists are all musicians, restaurateurs, impresarios, small business owners--trying to keep the culture of New Orleans alive in the wake of Katrina.

I think at points it actually surpasses The Wire, but Simon obviously doesn't know New Orleans the way he knew Baltimore. The show takes a lot of time showing us the musical subcultures of New Orleans (there seem to be hundreds of them). And of course a LOT of time is spent on the African American community, and I'd watch just to see Wendell Pierce get to strut his stuff as a broke-ass trombone player. Antoine Batiste is every bit as great a character as Bunk Moreland.

I'd say The Wire is the greater show overall, but I think most Wire fans who diss this show only liked The Wire because they identified with the violence. They never really understood what the show was saying, and since none of the characters on this show are kick-ass gangstas, they have no point of reference to cling to.

They are sad sad people, who probably live out their lives playing Grand Theft Auto. And would die about ten seconds into their first trip to an actual ghetto.

reply

I think at points it actually surpasses The Wire

It doesn't. You might like it if you're into jazz music, and listening to thinly veiled, overwrought lectures on New Orleans history, but this show is about as far away from The Wire as you can possibly get.

If you're a fan of The Wire, check out The Shield, Southland or The Corner.

I like Treme, and I've watched it since the premiere, but I've come to the rather bitter conclusion that this is a pretty weak show (somehow plodding and over-the-top) with the occasional moment of brilliance.

reply

It doesn't.


Sez you.

You might like it if you're into jazz music,


Gee, might I? It's only the greatest uniquely American art form of all time. But Treme is not just about jazz.

and listening to thinly veiled, overwrought lectures on New Orleans history, but this show is about as far away from The Wire as you can possibly get.


It's a different show because it's about a different town. Doing The Wire in New Orleans makes no sense, but that doesn't mean both shows don't ultimately show us a city through a varied assortment of complex characters. The big difference is that all the main characters on Treme are, in one way or another, contributing POSITIVELY to their community. The Wire had a lot of bad guys. That's what you miss.

If you're a fan of The Wire, check out The Shield, Southland or The Corner.


The Shield was garbage. Pure unadulterated garbage--please note it's entirely disappeared from television, now that it's over--it's mainly been forgotten. Southland is network copshow pablum repurposed to cable, and will likewise fade from the public memory. Sorry, but you've confirmed my assessment--you wanted Simon to keep doing cops&robbers, but he was ready to move on. You know, it's not like The Wire was ever a hit--most people have never watched it, and never will. And we have enough copshows out there. We didn't need any more.

I like Treme, and I've watched it since the premiere, but I've come to the rather bitter conclusion that this is a pretty weak show (somehow plodding and over-the-top) with the occasional moment of brilliance.


Occasional moments of brilliance are more than The Shield ever managed. Honestly, that show was just one long ode to dirty cops. And of course the hero (that's what he was) got punished in the end (kinda) to make it okay. It aspired to be The Sopranos for cops, but it never got anywhere near that level of artistry--or honesty.

One great thing about Treme is that it shows us there's nothing glamorous or sexy about cops who abuse their authority. They are just sleazebags with badges.

reply

I think this is the response I was looking for. I'll give it a try. Might give The Shield a watch too just because I have heard a lot of good things about it, but this sounds a little more in line with my interests.

reply

Jesus Christ, you're annoying.

Quit embarrassing yourself.

reply

It was the best post in this thread.

reply

The Shield was garbage.


ugh, thankyou for saying this.

"if you like The Wire, check out The Shield"??????????????????

i mean, really????????????


haha - the only thing those two have in common is cops and guns.
don't get me wrong, i watched all of The Shield, and found it reasonably entertaining (what can i say? sometimes i like trash tv so i can just chill and daydream at the same time).

The Shield is basically a soap opera for men - Treme definitely has more in common with The Wire than a soap opera ever will.


personally i think Treme just edges out The Wire for me as the best series ever made - but then i live for music, and i haven't watched The Wire in over a year so....

but both are masterpieces - The Shield? erm, not so much...

reply

Wouldn't be so direct about less complex shows, but yes, totally agree.

Although: SixFeetUnder might be soap opera-ish, but still one of the best things on TV - a masterpiece like Treme and TheWire.
I would even say: Loved TheWire? You maybe will like Treme.. You loved SFU? You WILL like Treme.


You know, people can watch TheWire very superficial. Same with BreakingBad. Or: Some people do not appreciate the bigger picture, the depth of characters and the cinematography like a lot of HBO watchers.
With shows like MadMen or Treme: their is no way to appreciate these masterpieces, if you're not seeing these aspects.
That, of course, doesn't make a show like Treme worse! However, also a procedural has their quality - just has to be what you're searching for!

Still: these aspects I named are objective criterias for quality TV, so in the end we're in the right. :)

reply

Haha every message board on IMDB has its fair share deluded fanboys badmouthing other shows.

The Shield is garbage......yeah right....

Hint! Hint! There are people out there who like both these shows!

And to the OP, hope you give Shield a try, its a procedural cop show indeed, but its one of the best around. Kurt Sutter who later went on to produce Sons Of Anarchy has extensively worked on it with creator Shawn Ryan. I really don't see any procedural on TV currently on par with it........maybe Bosch.

reply


And to the OP, hope you give Shield a try, its a procedural cop show indeed, but its one of the best around. Kurt Sutter who later went on to produce Sons Of Anarchy has extensively worked on it with creator Shawn Ryan. I really don't see any procedural on TV currently on par with it........maybe Bosch


hahahahhaa - 'the shield' a procedural cop show????

haha that is awesome. in the dreams of 15 year old boys 'the shield' is a procedural cop show. in the real world it's a high pace, testosterone-filled, gun-slingin', shoot-em-up hollywood-style entertainment show.

go tell an actual cop that 'the shield' is a good cop show and watch their reaction. 
(and puh-leaaaaase don't try to fake out and say 'i am a cop', or 'my sibling is a cop' etc etc, because you're talking to the wrong person to say that to without making more of a tosspot of yourself haha).


'the shield' is easy watching, entertainment. just like 'sons of anarchy' is. neither have them have any basis in reality, or any depth as a piece of art.

reply

Not even a little bit son.

Treme isn't a good show. It isn't a bad show, but it isn't a good show either. It is exactly an average show.

What makes The Wire so strong (it's focused storylines, "it's all connected") is why I think Treme is weak. On Treme so many of the storylines are disjointed or weakly tied together by the most annoying character on all of TV (Steve Zahn's Davis).

The Wire began by telling a focused story of an investigation into a western Baltimore gang and then slowly spread out to cover more and more.

Treme began like if The Wire started season 1 with plots into the docks, the drug trade, Carcetti's first campaign, Namond being destructive in school, and the Baltimore Sun's quest for a Pulitzer.

Treme, IMO, bit off more than it can chew and as a result you never get to know many of the characters as well as you did their counterparts on The Wire and so they are a lot less likeable.

reply

You can make the argument that Treme is better than The Wire. I think The Wire is slightly better, but it's close. Treme is trying to tell a story about ordinary people, so of course it's going to seem less remarkable than a show about drug dealing and the like.

Treme is the main character of this show, the neighborhood in New Orleans. It just focuses on people's real lives there, how ordinary people there lived. It takes on issues that affected and affect New Orleans in a real way.

I'm curious, which characters do you think you know well in The Wire? I mean, we know their work lives quite well. But as far as personal lives, beyond the work environment, we don't know that much. Whereas on Treme, we know Davis, Batiste, Jeanette, Ladonna, Terry, and a number of other characters better than anyone in The Wire. Who is Mcnulty? He's a renegade cop with marital issues who likes to drink. We don't have that deep an understanding of who he is. Treme is much, much deeper than The Wire.

reply

I think most Wire fans who diss this show only liked The Wire because they identified with the violence


Not only is this statement patently absurd, it is also disrespectful to the legions of fans of The Wire (including me) who loved the show for a multitude of reasons, none of which was identifying with violence.

reply

I'm a huge fan of The Wire and I found myself really enjoying Treme overall. Mind you, it does occasionally get a bit plodding and dull (Season 3 most noticeably) but it's still a superbly put together production, and one that far exceeded my expectations.

"All in the game..." - Omar Little

reply

I've watched the wire about 5 times and i've had it with treme. Season 4 airs right now, can't stand it. The music is not even that good and there's too much of it. Nothing really interesting happens on this show. Im extremely disappointed and bear in mind i've watched everything made by david simon(generation kill, the corner and homicide, all excellent, I would recommend watching these series, instead of treme.

reply

it does occasionally get a bit plodding and dull (Season 3 most noticeably)
Damn, I'm just about to watch the fourth episode of season one. If it doesn't get more interesting I will probably ditch it. Hearing that it actually gets slower doesn't bode well. I was a big fan of The Wire and Generation Kill but Treme is, so far, just too slow. It's not engaging me at all.

I choose to believe what I was programmed to believe

reply

I don't think it's plodding at all, it's enjoyable all the way through. I was always curious to see what would happen next. Everything felt organic and realistic, like you were watching real New Orleans culture, which is fun to see.

reply

To quote Bjork (I can't believe I just said that): Possibly. Maybe. Probably not.

While The Wire was 'all the pieces matter' where something one character did had repercussions in other areas of the show, this is more the opposite. It's a collection of New Orleans archetypes going about 'the day to day', as LaDonna says in Season 1, after Hurricane Katrina, although by season 3 its more about just living, or trying to live, in New Orleans and not about Katrina. Their paths do cross from time to time, and some stories interconnect, but mostly their issues are their own, revealing an aspect of the whole that is New Orleans.

I've seen The Wire about five times now. But never did it really have me googling, and going to the library, or iTunes like Treme has. But while The Wire showed Baltimore more than it told, by Season 3 of Treme its telling more than it's showing (which is bad form when telling a story). The truth is fascinating but it starts to get in the way of a good story by Season 3.

I say watch it anyway. Even in Season 3 (I'm waiting on the DVDs for Season 4) there are moments and storylines that make it worth watching, although they get fewer with every season. Good storylines are Albert's (I can't say why), Toni's, and Sonny's (which is TOO good, like Omar's happy ending in Season 4 before you know what in Season 5). Just beware of the bad storylines; Annie's (Lucia can't sing to be heard and any obstacles or conflicts she has disappear in less than an episode), Desiree's (starts out good but trails off and falls flat), Hidalgo's (even when he's busy he's just sitting on the bench), and, sadly, Davis (the a-hole is back and bigger and more gaping than ever). And one new storyline that goes unresolved and is too strange and sad to believed, except it's completely true and really did happen in New Orleans.

All in all, watch at your own risk. It is David Simon, but a really self-indulgent Simon show about his favourite city outside Baltimore.

reply

Yes, I believe you will. Treme is a great show, with many of the same archetypes we loved in The Wire.

reply

Leave this alone if you only want the wire....watch the wire again...not this....or watch this and expect to be challenged as you were with the wire but in new ways :D

“What we have here is a failure to communicate”, Captain

reply

Someone who likes The Wire is obviously someone who values quality drama. There's no reason why you won't like Treme.

reply

i've seen quite a lot of the more popular tv-shows ('mad men', 'sopranos', 'the wire', breaking bad', six feet under', 'game of thrones', californication') but i have to say that in the mist of this overwhelming age of the tv-drama… well... gheee-friggin-louie have i never seen anything remotely as good as 'treme'. it's a masterpiece. it's robert altman meets… well… meets david simon. it's pure heart and pure medium. it's life as we know it. it's full of joy but in an honest way. it's also tough to sit through but that's life as well you know. and the music plays! it's the best piece of drama i have read, seen or listened to in a very, very long time. i love it with every inch of my body.

reply

i've seen quite a lot of the more popular tv-shows ('mad men', 'sopranos', 'the wire', breaking bad', six feet under', 'game of thrones', californication') but i have to say that in the mist of this overwhelming age of the tv-drama… well... gheee-friggin-louie have i never seen anything remotely as good as 'treme'. it's a masterpiece. it's robert altman meets… well… meets david simon. it's pure heart and pure medium. it's life as we know it. it's full of joy but in an honest way. it's also tough to sit through but that's life as well you know. and the music plays! it's the best piece of drama i have read, seen or listened to in a very, very long time. i love it with every inch of my body.


yup. this. 

reply

nice. thanks :-)
just re-watched the last episode of the last season today.
there is so much going on in this show.
hands down, it's made me a better person, i firmly believe it has.
'we're all going crazy while jumping and having fun!'.

reply

Like one of the other commenters said, if the only thing you liked about The Wire was the crime elements, you won't like Treme. But I will say this: if you think that The Wire was just about 'badass gangstas' and shootouts, you're sadly mistaken.


First of all: The Wire, like Treme, is all about David Simon's political commentary. Anyone who watched The Wire without noticing how it was laden with themes like race/class issues, political bias and corruption, bureaucracy, the inherent flaws of the American judicial system, etc. must have been thoroughly stoned while watching it. Treme is cut from the same cloth, only in a different setting. It takes on the reality of the abysmal response to hurricane Katrina from the Bush administration and FEMA (in John Goodman's character's words, "a federal *beep* of EPIC PROPORTIONS!!!") and shows how the local government took the opportunity that Katrina presented to gentrify New Orleans (gross). Now, if you enjoyed the sociopolitical aspects of The Wire rather than the crime elements, I think you will enjoy Treme.

Secondly, if you like characters that are well-rounded, funny, tragic and *beep* WELL ACTED, you will most certainly like it. Even with having watched only one season, I have already come to love characters like LaDonna, Big Chief, Davis, Cray and Antoine just as much as I loved Bubbles, Omar, Lester, Kima, Prezbo, and the rest. Can't wait to start watching season 2. Also, you will find that quite a few of The Wire's actors are in it (HBO knows good acting when they see it and likes recycling their actors), so that's a bonus!

Thirdly, if you like TV writing that by far outranks any other American shows, Treme is definitely for you. There is as much love and thought put into the dialogue in Treme as there was in The Wire. The stark realism of the characters tumultuous and heartbreaking situations is offset by little moments of humour ("Antoine Baptiste is strictly a COOKED fish eating *beep* just like in The Wire. It's as clever and funny as it is devastating and sad.

Fourth, and last: I see there are a few people on here who say that Treme is "too focused on music" and that you won't like it unless you like jazz music. Now, let it be said that I know precisely *beep* ALL about jazz, and I still enjoyed it very much. Also, I think it's important to remember that like Baltimore was the star of The Wire, New Orleans is the star of Treme. And a large part of that city is the music (as well as delicious food and Mardi Gras). I've always wanted to go to New Orleans, but this show it makes me want to go all the more.


All in all, I think Treme is more like The Wire than any two-bit cop show you'll find on TV these days. I think the only real difference is that there aren't as many cops and drug dealers on Treme.

Hope that was helpful to you :-)

reply